Reminder - Cost of Ownership of Gas vs Diesel

[Clay45]

Sounds like the study based its overall cost calculations on the resale value of the vehicle at the end of 5 years. This is not a good comparison unless you sell and replace your vehicle every 5 years. I would think the diesel would offer more real life savings by comparing total costs of owning/operating the trucks until the wheels fall off.

Of course the study wouldn't be over yet.

 

[buickanddeere]

Just price a set of common rail injectors, a set of glow plugs and a particulate filter. Have to save a lot of money on 20+% more expensive diesel to pay for the repairs.

 

[RalphVa]

Our Benz 240D was the cheapest car we ever owned. Kept it for 25 years after buying it used at 1 year on showroom floor. Kept it so long because we kept waiting for Benz to bring over their C class diesel with stick shift. They still haven't. Finally got disgusted and bought a 2010 VW Jetta TDI in late 2009.

This is the most capable car I've ever owned or driven. Yeah, there are probably a lot of cars with a lot of hp out there that are just as capable, but this one has just the right amount of hp and torque to be what I call very capable. It'll go from Virginia to Columbus, OH over the Virginia and WVa mountains without your knowing they are there and give you 44-45 mpg (49 mpg going south or east on our interstates here). The 2015 Jetta TDIs are rated now at 46 mpg EPA vs. this one's 40. Not sure what they've done to get this higher level, but the hp is a tad higher, too.

You never know you're driving a diesel until you go to fill up and occasionally when it's going through a burnoff cycle on the soot collector when you stop it in the garage. Otherwise, you'd swear you were driving a small V8.

Ralph

 

[WM75Guy]

You're going to use 8333 gallons of gas to drive 100,000 miles at 12mpg.
You're going to use 5555 gallons of diesel to drive 100,000 miles at 18mpg.
You'll spend $23,165.00 on gas and $19,720 on diesel at $2.67 and $3.55 respectively
and
You'll spend $24,999.00 on gas and $22,164 on diesel at $3.00 and $3.99 respectively.
That's a difference of between $3445 and $2835.
You'd have to drive at least 200,000 miles just to pay for the cost of the diesel engine option.

196,000 miles on my 03 GMC. 4000 more and I am in the black!!! :cool2:

My wife and I both drive diesel pickups. The way I see it some people buy what they can afford. Some can afford to buy what they want. Just because your gasser was right for you does not mean my diesels are wrong for me. Everybody's situation is different. As long as my wife and I are happy with the purchase is what matters.

By the way paid $3.25 for diesel yesterday, gas was $2.95. Used my grocery points to get $.40/gallon discount.

 

[MossRoad]

196,000 miles on my 03 GMC. 4000 more and I am in the black!!! :cool2:

My wife and I both drive diesel pickups. The way I see it some people buy what they can afford. Some can afford to buy what they want. Just because your gasser was right for you does not mean my diesels are wrong for me. Everybody's situation is different. As long as my wife and I are happy with the purchase is what matters.

By the way paid $3.25 for diesel yesterday, gas was $2.95. Used my grocery points to get $.40/gallon discount.

I never said anything about not buying what you want. Most folks don't NEED half the things they have; they enjoy them. I'm no different. Heck, I have a '93 Suburban that's a piece of crud. But I enjoy driving it. My point is, very few people can justify the cost of a diesel optioned pickup truck through fuel savings alone as it will rarely pay off, if ever.

 

[buickanddeere]

The point is when somebody pulls up in their diesel pickup and tells you they are driving a diesel because it "saves money".

 

[MikePA]

The point is when somebody pulls up in their diesel pickup and tells you they are driving a diesel because it "saves money".

If they think it does, good for them. No one has ever pulled up next to me and said this, and if they did, I'd never view it as my responsibility to ask for proof.

 

[buickanddeere]

Coffee shop at work used to be notorious for such tales. I started to sketch out the numbers and there were a few red faces and sputtering.

 

[MikePA]

Coffee shop at work used to be notorious for such tales. I started to sketch out the numbers and there were a few red faces and sputtering.

Must have been some pleasant meals at your table.

 

[murphy1244]

Must have been some pleasant meals at your table.

:laughing:

 

[schmism]

from the org article

They developed three- and five-year cost estimates of depreciation by modeling used-vehicle auction data and fuel costs by modeling government data. They then combined these estimates with three- and five-year estimates for repairs, maintenance, insurance, fees and taxes from an outside data source.

I am highly suspicious of the data they used especially given the choice to use "fuel cost by modeling gov't data".

In addition I went looking for the ACTUAL study to see what numbers they ACTUALLY used. I can find no reference to the reported on study. Specificity, not found in the UMTRI publications. UMTRI Publications | UMTRI - University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute

So without knowing more specifics about study, and without being able to locate the study, I personally classify the linked review? report? (dont know what you call it) as an AstroTurf document. Astroturfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MossRoad]

from the org article



I am highly suspicious of the data they used especially given the choice to use "fuel cost by modeling gov't data".

In addition I went looking for the ACTUAL study to see what numbers they ACTUALLY used. I can find no reference to the reported on study. Specificity, not found in the UMTRI publications. UMTRI Publications | UMTRI - University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute

So without knowing more specifics about study, and without being able to locate the study, I personally classify the linked review? report? (dont know what you call it) as an AstroTurf document. Astroturfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently you didn't Google "University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute study diesel"

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf

 

[MossRoad]

And guess what? The study was on cars and trucks. There were way more cars than trucks in the study. The cars proved most likely to have a total cost of ownership being lower with a clean diesel than a gas engine, but wait, what's that on page 19... OUCH! Don't read it if you own a Ford F250. You might want to read it if you're a GM fan, though. :laughing: Then continue on to the 5 year. Again OUCH!

Gas rules, diesel drools. Hahhahahaaa

 

[MossRoad]

OK, that wasn't very nice, so I apologize. Anyhow, the study showed a savings in clean diesel cars VS gas cars, BARELY a savings in some diesel trucks VS gas trucks, and a small loss on Ford F250 diesel VS gas.

 

[buickanddeere]

Oh dream of being a daily commuter of 1-1/2 hours each way to and from work just to have a clean diesel vehicle pay for it's self.

 

[The Fred]

You couldn't give me any of the current diesel trucks with all that emissions junk on them that can fail at the drop of a hat and leave you with thousands in repair bills because the dealer chose to void your warranty because they'd claim "bad fuel" was the cause.

BINGO! We have a winner. Urea pump in a newer TouRAG Diesel costs $1000 to replace. 2011 F-350 6.8 Urea pump $700 to replace. VW has just reduced the price of their REBUILT DPF units to $1000 far lower than the 3,500 they were. These junks are going bad just off of warranty with little chance of getting factory help to repair.

Also if you buy an aftermarket warranty read the fine print first as most cover very little of these sub systems.

Once the new car smell goes away so does the reliability and cost of ownership. I work on newer diesel cars every day and can tell you to be careful if you are buying for the long run, the value is just not there any longer.

BEST Diesel value of used vehicle: VW TDI 99-03, 50 MPG (5 speed) and few emissions; big polluter though.
Early Toyota Prius is an exceptional value in a car also. I have a few customers over 200,000 miles with few repair bills.

Regards, Fred

 

[buickanddeere]

The EPA and the environmentalists win by banning diesel pickup with 1000 little laws instead of one all encompassing law.

 

[sparc]

That may hold true for cars, but today's truck diesels are unreliable and expensive to run. Around me, diesel costs 50 cents more at the pump than gasoline. Also, oil changes are 2-3 times more expensive. Many people buy diesels to get bragging rights.

I have two pickups, both 2012 Fords.

#1 is my F-350 super cab short bed 4x4 diesel with 3.55 rear. I get about 18 to 20 mpg when not towing.

#2 is a 2012 Raptor crew cab, 5.5 foot bed (only bed size offered for the Raptor) with the 6.2L gas motor(again the only choice), same tranny as the F-350 but programmed differently and a 4.10 rear. I get about 16 mpg driving the same roads and under the same conditions as the F-350.

I figure they cost about the same (within a penny) in cents per mile to operate. Gasoline is cheaper and maintenance less but the mpg is not so good. The diesel oil changes are every ~6 to 7000 miles but more expensive and then you have the higher fuel costs and the DEF to add in which for me over the past 40k miles has been about a 1/2 cent per mile. Better mpg with the diesel but higher maintenance and fuel cost makes it just only slightly less to operate than my 2012 Raptor. Now a F-150 with a different motor and gearing should be able to do much better than my Raptor, at least the new ones, my '05 F-150 4x4 with the 5.4L triton motor was about the same as the Raptor.

So you will say why did I buy the Raptor if the milage is so bad. I wanted to replace my 9 year old F-150 which also got about 16 mpg. I drove that 05 F-150 FX4 for 145k miles and the MPG was a steady 15.5 to 16.5, I know because I logged every drop of fuel I put in that truck and I was the only one who drove it. So I didn't take a hit in the milage area but I did get a newer truck that is fun to drive and since I have a truck for 'work' I wanted something that was fun and I can't stand driving a car (though I have had a few in my 40+ years of driving) any more so the Raptor seemed like a good choice and the price was right for what it is (bought it used with 20k miles but even used they command a decent selling price).

 

[MossRoad]

As mentioned before, I have a 93 1/2 ton Suburban with a 5.7 (350) gas engine and 4spd auto and I get 18 on the highway all day long. Only about 12 in town. Towing my tractor, 1500# trailer and 1500# tractor, I get about 10-11 at best. And its a dog with that kind of weight. But since I only tow about 9 miles each way less than 10 times a year, I really don't mind. If I could afford a nice diesel truck, would I buy one? My practical side says no. My fun side says yes. Maybe if I had a large camper? I don't know. I have a hard time spending money on things I can't justify.

 

[sandman2234]

I have owned gas pickup trucks all my life. Went for a ride in a friends pickup..a 2000 Ford diesel pick up. I looked at the trailer we were hooking to and realized that my gas pickup would probably not like hauling that thing, it was big, ugly and way overbuilt. Once we loaded it and took off down the back roads, over hills and around curves, with him never shifting a gear (it was a six speed) I began thinking about how my pickup would have been shifting down at every hill to pull that empty trailer, much less a loaded one! Do I need a diesel truck like that... probably not, but since I now have one, it does everything I ask of it, without a problem. I walk right by the gas pick up most days because I enjoy driving the diesel. It is not all about the cost of ownership, but I do know that if I subjected the gas truck to the many miles that I have put the diesel through pulling as heavy of trailers that the diesel just takes in stride, I would be putting a motor and a couple of transmissions in it!
David from jax