Reminder - Cost of Ownership of Gas vs Diesel

[Diamondpilot]

I compared it to 20 plus years of owning and operating. I track every penny spent in the same manner I do with the flight department I manage. It's simple math.

Like I said before in my area for the past year diesel has been on average $.80 per gallon more but that doesn't equate to more mpg when compared to the new flock of 1/2 ton trucks. Your right, I am banging my head against the wall. It would seem you and your buddy with all the college education and real world experience could figure this out also.

By the way, I have a Masters in Aerospace from Indiana University but that doesn't make me a expert on trucks. My 20 or so owned and that many again maintain makes me knowledgeable but still no expert.

If you truly believe you need a 3/4 ton diesel to pull around 10K your either stuck in the mid 90's, buying the wrong trucks, buying poorly equipped trucks, or plain blind.

Chris

 

[buickanddeere]

Did anybody read the original article? People keep bringing up the same arguments, they took that into account when they did the study. They said all the diesels had lower fuel costs. Not some of them, all of them.

I'm not defending diesel over gas or the other way around. You can keep telling me they take two batteries. Yes trucks do but cars don't. Yes the fuel costs more but if they use less, you come out ahead.

The batteries in my Dodge truck lasted a little over 10 years. They lasted twice as long as batteries in a gas vehicle. There for diesels are just as cheap to run as gas vehicles right? I don't need coil packs, I don't need spark plugs, I don't need spark plug wires, I don't need to ever replace a throttle body. People can go around in circles with these arguments.

Read the study and take it for what its worth.

Did you forget glow plugs, common rail diesel injectors, turbo chargers, adjustable waste gates, particulate filters and urea injection?
Unless you are towing 10,000-20,000 lbs two hundred miles a day five days a week. The diesel does not payback over the life of the vehicle. Diesel does sound cool at the stop lights or at Quickie-mart parking lot and is fun to drive when programmed.

 

[dodge man]

I don't think the original post had anything to do with pulling 10,000 pounds, it was diesel vs gas and it looked like the study covered cars and trucks.

 

[buickanddeere]

I have run the numbers and I can't make an otherwise identical GMC 3/4 ton Duramax diesel cheaper to drive than a HD 1/2 ton with the factory tow package in 2014. That is in Canada where diesel and gasoline prices are 'close'.
The VM Fiat V6 diesel in the Dodge 1/2 ton is a contender compared to the Cummins or Duramax V8. in a year of so the inline four VM Fiat diesel will be in the GMC junior pickups. For somebody limited to one and only one vehicle in the household and hauls 10,000lbs more than 5000 miles a year. The diesel may save a few hundred bucks until after warranty repairs start.

 

[buickanddeere]

What does one episode of being stopped on the highway will gelled diesel filters cost?

 

[Eric102]

I'm a licensed land surveyor also, state of Washington. Retired now but spent 35 years surveying in the mountains and banging around on rough logging roads in 3/4 and 1 ton pickups and SUVs. Our agency always used gas engines, the fleet cost analysis always favored them over diesel.

 

[dodge man]

I reread the study again. It's about the third post down for the link. I have a couple of comments.

All of the vehicles they studied were cheaper to own in the diesel version except the F250. The Ram 2500 was more or less break even. The Ford was listed as costing more in diesel because of poor resale due to the 6.0 problems. They tried to take ALL costs into account, maintance, original cost, insurance, fuel, resale etc.

The studied just gathered data. No real world testing, they just got the numbers and crunched them. They appeared to me to make a serious effort to gather real world numbers.

They say in the study the difference in fuel prices can have an affect on the result. I didn't really see where they said what prices the used for diesel and gas. I think they just used averages for the different years. This may or may not make their numbers valid today, I can't say.

The biggest problem in the study I see is they just did a 3 to 5 year cost of ownership. This is what most people do when they buy new. What happens after 5 years? Maybe the gap widens and diesels save even more money. Maybe the opposite.

I will freely admit I don't know from personal experience which is cheaper in total cost of ownership, diesel or gas. I do know from most of the comments and other posts that they don't know either.

And last, I wasn't bragging about my college degree, just trying to relate what we do when we engineer a project for total cost of ownership to the argument at hand.

 

[Wolfy]

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that diesel engines work well for some people, and gasoline engines work well for other people?

 

[motownbrowne]

I think there's some good points here.

I also think there's some mindless drivel in the form of bias and name calling.

For me, average cost of vehicle ownership isn't really relevant. I only own a couple vehicles at a time. Each one has the potential to be a good deal or a bad deal. For me, fuel economy is important, but the big difference is purchase price, repairs done while owning, and resale value. While the numbers for gas vs. Diesel on the whole are fun to argue about, getting a good deal on a vehicle, not incurring lots of mechanic bills, and selling it in good condition before it's scrap value are way more important to "cost of ownership" than the type of fuel. Sometimes you get lucky and get a great vehicle. Sometimes you do a tune-up, put on new shocks and tires, and blow the head gasket on the way home. Either way, average don't apply.

 

[Haoleguy]

Did anybody read the original article? People keep bringing up the same arguments, they took that into account when they did the study. They said all the diesels had lower fuel costs. Not some of them, all of them.

Read the study and take it for what its worth.

Thank you Dodge Man for trying to bring this back to the study posted in pdf format. Within that paper on page 6 & 7 it lists the methods used for gathering data. From my view this is a relatively short term study but even given that I think the findings are contrary to what most on this board believe on cost of ownership for their trucks. When comparing apples to apples(3/4 ton to 3/4 ton) and not apples to oranges( 3/4 ton to 1/2 ton) I think the findings are rock solid and suggest that in most cases diesels come out ahead. It is clear that the initial diesel surcharge upfront is partially or fully recouped on resale, except for the Ford PSD 6.0. I think the interesting supposition that the researchers have is that diesel transportation will increase in the US and lead to a decrease on initial cost of the diesel option.

 

[Capricious]

".. I think the interesting supposition that the researchers have is that diesel transportation will increase in the US and lead to a decrease on initial cost of the diesel option...."



....which will lead to the cost of #2 diesel fuel becoming increasingly high compared to the cost of gasoline, simply due to supply-demand issues.

40 years ago, diesel was half the cost of gasoline, now it is the same price or higher, so the change is already happening. If one only keeps their vehicle for 5 years or so, it may not matter. 10 years? I think it will matter quite a bit.

 

[Capricious]

"...I "topped off" with gasoline this morning in Missouri @ $2.619

Same place was selling #2 diesel @ $3.429..."



"Topped-off' again this morning, same place.

$2.569 for gasoline, still $3.429 for #2"




Topped-off yet again this morning (driving a different vehicle)

Same station

Gas @ $2.569

Diesel up to $3.479

$0.91 difference- getting close to the most I have ever seen, which was an even dollar.

Put another way, the diesel was 35% more expensive than the gas.

 

[wawajake]

"...I "topped off" with gasoline this morning in Missouri @ $2.619

Put another way, the diesel was 35% more expensive than the gas.

In your town or state.............but in many many other parts of the world it is the same price or less. Each person gets to decide these things based on their own situation and ideally without being blinded by bias.

 

[zing]

Has anyone else come to the conclusion that diesel engines work well for some people, and gasoline engines work well for other people?

We are not having any of that around here. Your mind tricks will not work on me, young Jedi!

 

[MikePA]

Each person gets to decide these things based on their own situation and ideally without being blinded by bias.

If I am deciding these things based on my own situation, I'd also be the one determining bias.

If I am 'blinded by bias' I wouldn't analyze or evaluate anything, I'd just buy what I want, regardless of the economics.

 

[bdog]

Keep this in mind, this is the future of diesel engines, like it or hate it. It the same for everybody, tractors, light trucks, big rigs, heavy equipment. We can whine about it or adapt. This is just like the late 70's and early 80's with gas vehicles, people whined and ***** about the emissions stuff but I don't read anybody complaining about it now on gas vehicles.

I hear you but the emissions crap on the gas engines has been well developed and works well now. They have had 30-40 years to work the kinks out. I was young but I remember lots of problems with them when they first came out.

I drive a diesel truck (2012 dodge) but I tend to think this diesel emission stuff is still in its infancy and they are going to find better ways of doing it. This DPF, DEF stuff is a hassle and there has to be something better.

I bought a new F-250 for a work truck for my business a couple of weeks and I chose a gas one. It will tow on a regular basis but nothing huge.

When I replace my Dodge I am not sure if I will go diesel or gas. I tow a lot and have always been a diesel guy but these modern gas pickups have a lot of power and less to go wrong it seems.

We are hard on our trucks and they are plain wore out before they reach 100k miles. Not the motors but the trucks themselves. I recently traded in three 2008 F-250 ext cab 4x4's with 70-80k miles on each and got 15k (total - 5k each)for all three. I didn't think they were worth that much. It is hard for us to recoup the investment of a diesel when the trucks are done before 100k miles.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I hear you but the emissions crap on the gas engines has been well developed and works well now. They have had 30-40 years to work the kinks out. I was young but I remember lots of problems with them when they first came out. I drive a diesel truck (2012 dodge) but I tend to think this diesel emission stuff is still in its infancy and they are going to find better ways of doing it. This DPF, DEF stuff is a hassle and there has to be something better. I bought a new F-250 for a work truck for my business a couple of weeks and I chose a gas one. It will tow on a regular basis but nothing huge. When I replace my Dodge I am not sure if I will go diesel or gas. I tow a lot and have always been a diesel guy but these modern gas pickups have a lot of power and less to go wrong it seems. We are hard on our trucks and they are plain wore out before they reach 100k miles. Not the motors but the trucks themselves. I recently traded in three 2008 F-250 ext cab 4x4's with 70-80k miles on each and got 15k (total - 5k each)for all three. I didn't think they were worth that much. It is hard for us to recoup the investment of a diesel when the trucks are done before 100k miles.

Oil field work?

 

[buickanddeere]

Thank you Dodge Man for trying to bring this back to the study posted in pdf format. Within that paper on page 6 & 7 it lists the methods used for gathering data. From my view this is a relatively short term study but even given that I think the findings are contrary to what most on this board believe on cost of ownership for their trucks. When comparing apples to apples(3/4 ton to 3/4 ton) and not apples to oranges( 3/4 ton to 1/2 ton) I think the findings are rock solid and suggest that in most cases diesels come out ahead. It is clear that the initial diesel surcharge upfront is partially or fully recouped on resale, except for the Ford PSD 6.0. I think the interesting supposition that the researchers have is that diesel transportation will increase in the US and lead to a decrease on initial cost of the diesel option.

Depends if located in the rust belt or the arid southwest US . Not going to even break even on a 10yr old truck with rust holes through the body.

 

[vanguard]

I don't have the experience some of you may but I'm a certified blackbelt in being a keyboard warrior.

The reason I don't buy a diesel is that I don't need anything that strong. I can see pulling my 6k tractor 6 miles maybe once a year to the service center. I can do that with a gasser. Diesels are unbeatable if you use them like they are designed.

 

[Monster5601]

"...I "topped off" with gasoline this morning in Missouri @ $2.619

Same place was selling #2 diesel @ $3.429..."

The price swings (which are regionally different) make it very difficult to forecast cost savings or cost additions when moving to diesel. Like you, in my area diesel is sitting at $3.78 (was $3.69 last week), just under a dollar more than regular gas (depending on where you buy gas). Back in July, diesel was the same price, but regular gas was ten cent higher in mid-state Michigan. Gas prices in my area (south east Michigan) vary from $3.59 to $2.69 as of this morning.