Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Pull type blower verses snow berms

[degerb]

Hi Guys:
Thanks for all the input on my previous post for a snowblower dolly, they have helped me a lot. I have a couple of questions before I pull the trigger so to speak, on buying a snowblower. We have snow berm/road width problems in the winter. I have a M/F 253 turbo I intend to use. I know a lot of the pro's and con's but do to my old arthritic neck, I am leaning heavily toward either a Meteor or Lucknow pull type. My questions are, how do pull types handle snow berms left by a snowplow? What is the best way to approach removing them with a pull type? Thirdly, using a pull type to handle snow berms (My M/F can probably handle up to an 84") what is the best width of blower to buy? I realize probably using a back blade to pull the berms away from the banks and guard rails would do the job, but Gee Whiz, that is a lot of mounting and remounting eauipment in winter temps! Thanks Don

 

[CalG]

I had a pull type for many years, quite an antique, and never did get a mfg. name off it.

It had a "wing" off the right side that more than cleared out past the tires. The berm pushed up by the plow guys was taken about 18 inched to the gulp. Snow just poured out into the woods. ;-)

 

[leonz]

Hi Guys:
Thanks for all the input on my previous post for a snowblower dolly, they have helped me a lot. I have a couple of questions before I pull the trigger so to speak, on buying a snowblower. We have snow berm/road width problems in the winter. I have a M/F 253 turbo I intend to use. I know a lot of the pro's and con's but do to my old arthritic neck, I am leaning heavily toward either a Meteor or Lucknow pull type. My questions are, how do pull types handle snow berms left by a snowplow? What is the best way to approach removing them with a pull type? Thirdly, using a pull type to handle snow berms (My M/F can probably handle up to an 84") what is the best width of blower to buy? I realize probably using a back blade to pull the berms away from the banks and guard rails would do the job, but Gee Whiz, that is a lot of mounting and remounting eauipment in winter temps! Thanks Don

About your snow blower issues:
We need to know more about this, is your MF 253 a four wheel drive or two wheel drive unit?
Are the rears loaded with liquid ballast or do you have wheel weights?
Is a front end loader installed on the 253?
Is it an open station or does it have a cabin?
Do you have snow chains for the tractor?-this is something you really need by the way.

What prevents you from installing a swivel seat to permit you to avoid twisting your neck?

If you have an open station tractor you can install very large truck mirrors to save your neck too.


WHY are you removing snow along the shoulder of the road????,this is the responsibility of the municipality in your area who responsibility it is to maintain the roadway.

 

[JerryK]

I clear by my mailbox on the roadway with a normal PTO blower. The county struggles to keep the snow berms back on that windy side of the road.. up here where we get lots of lake effect and blown snow. I cut about a 12' notch into the bank at a 30 degree angle upstream to the box to give an area for the county plow to unload the snow it is trying to push back into the bank. Clear close to the front of the box, then a small downstream angled notch. The notch area is also insurance in case I can't use the blower and need to use a blade. Gives me clear areas that I can blade the snow to. I could not do this with a pull type blower. Rear blowers are not that bad if your tractor is big enough that you can sit a little sideways. Lots of tractor operations require the op to go in reverse at least half the time, or keep an eye on his rear implement... so I see it mainly as a normal operation blowing in reverse.

 

[degerb]

Ok Guys here goes.. My M/f is a 2 wheel drive it has Rim guard in the rear tires and I do have chains and I do not have a FEL. My road is an access road, not a county road which would be plowed by a municipality. My tractor is similar to a Ford 8N but larger where you sit straddle of the tranny and have the gear shift stalks in the way preventing turning too much side saddle or to install a swivel seat. I do not have a cab but am looking for one. I currently am using a JD 160 with a 44" Berco blower on the front, I have really beat it up trying to keep the road wide enough for either a fuel truck or fire truck access in the winter. I know the job is way beyond what the JD is capable of but you use what you have. I bought the M/F to use primarily and using the JD for around the buildings. We really don't get huge snowfalls and drifts like Northern Michigan but unfortunately we do get enough, so was thinking a rear pull blower might be way to go.

 

[leonz]

Ok Guys here goes.. My MF is a 2 wheel drive it has Rim guard in the rear tires and I do have chains and I do not have a FEL. My road is an access road, not a county road which would be plowed by a municipality. My tractor is similar to a Ford 8N but larger where you sit straddle of the tranny and have the gear shift stalks in the way preventing turning too much side saddle or to install a swivel seat. I do not have a cab but am looking for one. I currently am using a JD 160 with a 44" Berco blower on the front, I have really beat it up trying to keep the road wide enough for either a fuel truck or fire truck access in the winter. I know the job is way beyond what the JD is capable of but you use what you have. I bought the M/F to use primarily and using the JD for around the buildings. We really don't get huge snowfalls and drifts like Northern Michigan but unfortunately we do get enough, so was thinking a rear pull blower might be way to go.

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Hello degerb,


I use My JD115 with a 42" front mounted snow caster for clearing long paths
to the wood and coal pile open and keep a broken asphault driveway and a
dirt driveway open during the winter months.

Candidly I think the price of the pull behind snow
blower is going to scare you versus the next larger size
rear mount which will aid you in half cuts with the
PTO running at 540 rpm.


A pair of very large truck mirrors would aid you
considerably as practice will aid you in backing.

Some rear mounts including Pronovost and S.Houle
and others have chute extensions that would reduce the
blowback when the wind kicks up as the extension
funnels the snow way above the operator level.


Paul Vanderzon is member of the forum here and
also sells Both the Pronovost(my favorite) and The S. Houle
snow casters.

You can contact him via the forum here or at Dé§*eigement Vanderzon | Dé§*eigement Saint-Bruno
or call him and tell hom I sent you and he can help you with this issue.
disclaimer: I recieve no financial compensation from Vanderzon Inc.


I would also suggest that you purchase a one of Clarences impeller kits for both your
John Deere and your new snow caster as you will improve them by a factor of at l
east 2 in throwing power.


Please update us with your progress when you are able to if possible.

 

[rmorey]

Ok Guys here goes.. My M/f is a 2 wheel drive it has Rim guard in the rear tires and I do have chains and I do not have a FEL. My road is an access road, not a county road which would be plowed by a municipality. My tractor is similar to a Ford 8N but larger where you sit straddle of the tranny and have the gear shift stalks in the way preventing turning too much side saddle or to install a swivel seat. I do not have a cab but am looking for one. I currently am using a JD 160 with a 44" Berco blower on the front, I have really beat it up trying to keep the road wide enough for either a fuel truck or fire truck access in the winter. I know the job is way beyond what the JD is capable of but you use what you have. I bought the M/F to use primarily and using the JD for around the buildings. We really don't get huge snowfalls and drifts like Northern Michigan but unfortunately we do get enough, so was thinking a rear pull blower might be way to go.

I have a Meteor 68" pull type blower. I have found that if you can get the tractor through a drift/berm, the blower will blow it away. I have blown over 24" without any difficulty.

The ideal attachment would be a fel, because you could move the berm out of the way. If you need a blower, then driving vs backing up is much more "civilized", :thumbsup: and is the way to go.

 

[Piston]

I can't think of one single disadvantage of a pull type snowblower as long as your tractor has the clearance to drive over your average snowfall amounts. I wouldn't even consider a rear PTO blower if it wasn't a pull type, even though they are more expensive. The price is the only advantage of the standard blower, as long as your tractor has the ground clearance.

How much PTO hp do you have?

 

[degerb]

Hey guys.. It is a rated 50 hp turbo. It has 360/70-R20 tires on the rear, It was a vinyard tractor hence the smaller wheels/tires. I know the ground clearance (10") could be a problem with deep snow, but I figure I will just blow more often. If clearance it is a huge problem, then I will have to have larger wheel discs fabricated for larger rims/tires as some M/F 253 stuff is hard to come by. Oh well, It's only money Right?

 

[leonz]

Hey guys.. It is a rated 50 hp turbo. It has 360/70-R20 tires on the rear, It was a vinyard tractor hence the smaller wheels/tires. I know the ground clearance (10") could be a problem with deep snow, but I figure I will just blow more often. If clearance it is a huge problem, then I will have to have larger wheel discs fabricated for larger rims/tires as some M/F 253 stuff is hard to come by. Oh well, It's only money Right?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________


Hello degerb,


I hate to say this BUUUUUUT I think you will be money ahead trading the MF253
towards a Kubota 2360 with a heated cab or the John Deere equivalent and
a front and rear blower rather than go through this as the ground clearance
is going to be a huge problem where it could be hung up and or stranded on
a snow bank/berm your trying to drive over.

The 2360 will have 4 wheel drive and the hydrostatic transmission and with it
you have room enough to swing in the seat to watch the rear while working
or in my case I have a CAB CAM in my truck and I will not be without one from
now on and they work very very well at night too.

The BX2360/John Deere equivalent is small enough to garage and the cabs
allow you to work in your shirt sleeves with the kubota supplied heater and defroster.


Rather than a second snow caster you could use rear blade to push the snow over untill you can no longer pull it into pile to use the front mounted snow caster.



THE LEAST I WOULD DO is purchase a front end loader for it and a plow for it to mount
on the front end loader from everything attachments as they are a forum sponsor.

The front end loader with the plow would allow you to plow the snow into a windrow and the rear mounted snow blower would wack it in one pass and get rid of it for you.

 

[smfcpacfp]

leonz, you meant a front or rear blower, correct?

I was going to say that your blower should be, at least, wider that the width of your tractor, but if you are going to drive thru the snow before snowblowing, with a pull through model, I guess it doesn't make much difference on the width. To be honest I can't fathom why anyone would want a pull thru blower. I have never seen anyone who actually had one.

 

[Piston]

. To be honest I can't fathom why anyone would want a pull thru blower.

It's pretty simple really, the reasons I would want an inverted (pull behind) blower are:

You can look and drive forward when snow blowing, no neck aches at the end

You can leave the loader on for things like moving firewood

If you want a compact package with high maneuverability you can remove the FEL, this is also an advantage of a typical rear blower over front mount

The rear blower in the back makes a great counter weight

When your done snow blowing you have no tracks behind you, it looks so nice and neat, this doesn't really matter functionally of course

If you use your tractor for just about anything else in the winter you don't have to remove your front mount snowblower, like when logging for firewood through the woods

You can back right up close to garage doors and scrape the snow away, using it like a box blade in a sense

You have excellent visibility of what is going into the snowblower

These are just a few examples off the top of my head. If you want to see one in action then YouTube "inverted snowblower tractor" or something to that effect.
There is a good reason why inverted snowblowers are the "go to" style for people who do snow removal as a business. When you really think about it, it actually makes the most sense in the majority of cases, but of course there are exceptions. A lot of people can't seem to get over the fact that you have to drive through the snow before blowing it, which really isn't that big of a deal when your properly ballasted although some people would need chains as well.

I don't think an inverted snowblower is a good choice on a very low clearance tractor lightweight tractor or when the operator lives somewhere that routinely gets 2' or more of snow on a regular basis, which is not all that common.

I think another great option is the FEL mounted hydraulic blower like Grsthegreat has. For his situation that can't be beat, but for most, I still think an inverted blower would be a better choice.

To be honest, I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't want a pull behind snowblower.

 

[leonz]

leonz, you meant a front or rear blower, correct?

I was going to say that your blower should be, at least, wider that the width of your tractor,
but if you are going to drive thru the snow before snowblowing, with a pull through model,
I guess it doesn't make much difference on the width.

To be honest I can't fathom why anyone would want a pull thru blower.
I have never seen anyone who actually had one.

Good Morning Dr.,

Yes I ment either a front or rear mount snow caster as a wider unit will help the end user
as long as the tires are ballasted and have snow chains and it has flags mounted on it for
the "new" user to keep track of the ends of the snow caster.

 

[degerb]

Hi Piston
As I stated in my original post , I also need to cut back snow berms left my neighbors snowplow along my access road. For general blowing and also cutting back the berms, what width blower would you recommend? I would appreciate any input or experience you might have. It seems strange talking about snow blowing when it was 90 some degrees here yesterday:laughing:

 

[leonz]

Hi Piston
As I stated in my original post , I also need to cut back snow berms left my neighbors snowplow along my access road. For general blowing and also cutting back the berms, what width blower would you recommend? I would appreciate any input or experience you might have. I seems strange talking about snow blowing when it was 90 some degrees here yesterday:laughing:

A rear mounted pull type snow caster is going to have a lot of problems working
snowbanks as the geometry of the blower is going to be a huge negative factor.

Adding wings is bad idea becuase of the stresses created by the snow piles that
may be very packed and the pull behind blowers lack of ability to dig into them
due to side clearances as the pull type blower will be directly behind the blower.

Your current mule will be worth alot more towards a trade in for a Kubota B3300
or BX2360 or JD equivalent with a front mounted snow caster and rear blade for both units.

the rear blade will permit you to pull the material out if it is packed and then you can remove it with the front mounted snow caster.

 

[degerb]

Thanks for yor insight Leonz, I appreciate it very much. One of my problems is I really like my tractor since I have it all prettied up new paint etc. I may indeed have to trade it for something else, but the more options I have from you guys will help me make the right decision. Thanks Don

 

[Scooby074]

If you got the ground clearance a rear pull looks like a great idea. Remember you can back up the drifts and pull ahead taking multiple bites. If you have a loader I suppose you could use it to knock down any major drifts, then go over it with the blower to clean it up. They seem to be pretty popular in Scandinavia, most videos I could find seem to be taped there. Google Snöfräs or Snöslunga

 

[leonz]

Thanks for yor insight Leonz, I appreciate it very much. One of my problems is I really like my tractor since I have it all prettied up new paint etc. I may indeed have to trade it for something else, but the more options I have from you guys will help me make the right decision. Thanks Don

I think you will end up trading it don as even a small cabbed
sub compact will work wonders for you.

We have many members that use them for long sloping driveways
with ballast and chains.

You will have until September first or so to make a purchase from existing
inventory as the RAD blowers painted orange and green suddenly fall into a
black hole and cannot be had, but Pronovost and SHoule snow casters can
be found and purchased.

Spend some time on the brand forums and read the threads and posts and
then make a decision B4 September, 1st as they will not be able to help you
unless they have inventory buried under dirt that they can dig out.


I hate my front mount simply because it is poorly made in my opinion and
is not balanced. I have to install casters on both sides to keep it from digging
into the ground.

The RAD built units for front mounts are a pain and the mounting frames are not very strong either-I can push the strap iron used to make the lower mounting frame that connects to the tractor- I could not do that with the single stage IHC snow caster I grew up on.

The rear mounts are simple and much stronger and the pull type are great for contractors and low snowfalls OR high wheel base tractors, not vineyard units.

When you read through the posts you will see that some of the folks have suicide knobs and truck mirrors to make the job easier too. I just do not want you to be looking down the barrel of september first and unprepared.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I've run inverted blowers commercially for the last 4 yrs. If you've got enough tractor to pull it, they can't be beat. I was spoiled with big, new tractors (2 yrs in a Case 105U, 1 yr in a JD 6330 and last yr in a 120 Maximum) but I'd run one in a heart beat on my B3300SU at home but I don't have either the weight or the ground clearance for the amount of snow I get.

Here's my thoughts:

1. If you are only doing your own snow, you don't NEED a cab regardless of what anyone tells you. Are they nice to have? You bet! Bundle up, plan your direction with the wind and you can survive just fine without. I've got 25 yrs doing my own snow with open stations, 1/4 mile lane in the wide open wind.

2. If you have any wind at all in open areas, blades suck unless you have along way to the side to push the snow -- otherwise you just make a nice ridge to drift more and more snow.

3. Having a pull type the same width as the tractor is nice that if the tires clear the obstacle, so will the blower. If the blower is a bit wider (say 6" per side) you can nibble your way into a bank to widen out the cleared area.

4. To deal with a plow ridge bigger than you can drive thru, raise the blower to the top, back up over the ridge (stop when the back tires start to climb the bank), drop the blower and pull ahead. Repeat as necessary.

5. Hydraulic chute rotation and deflector are worth every penny of the cost. If I had to pick them or a cab, I'd pick them no question over a cab.

6. Most older tractors have WAY more forward gears than reverse giving much more ground speed options without having to feather the clutch

7. Both Lucknow and Metor make decent blowers. Normand and Pronovost are probably the 2 top names in snowblowers (If there's others equivalent, I haven't heard of them)

I'm in Canada, we get more than enough snow that I know what I'm talking about.

 

[smfcpacfp]

It's pretty simple really, the reasons I would want an inverted (pull behind) blower are:

You can look and drive forward when snow blowing, no neck aches at the end

You can leave the loader on for things like moving firewood

If you want a compact package with high maneuverability you can remove the FEL, this is also an advantage of a typical rear blower over front mount

The rear blower in the back makes a great counter weight

When your done snow blowing you have no tracks behind you, it looks so nice and neat, this doesn't really matter functionally of course

If you use your tractor for just about anything else in the winter you don't have to remove your front mount snowblower, like when logging for firewood through the woods

You can back right up close to garage doors and scrape the snow away, using it like a box blade in a sense

You have excellent visibility of what is going into the snowblower

These are just a few examples off the top of my head. If you want to see one in action then YouTube "inverted snowblower tractor" or something to that effect.
There is a good reason why inverted snowblowers are the "go to" style for people who do snow removal as a business. When you really think about it, it actually makes the most sense in the majority of cases, but of course there are exceptions. A lot of people can't seem to get over the fact that you have to drive through the snow before blowing it, which really isn't that big of a deal when your properly ballasted although some people would need chains as well.

I don't think an inverted snowblower is a good choice on a very low clearance tractor lightweight tractor or when the operator lives somewhere that routinely gets 2' or more of snow on a regular basis, which is not all that common.

I think another great option is the FEL mounted hydraulic blower like Grsthegreat has. For his situation that can't be beat, but for most, I still think an inverted blower would be a better choice.

To be honest, I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't want a pull behind snowblower.

We get 15 to 30 feet of snow each year. I normally have to snow blow 20 to 40 times each season, sometimes more than once a day. My driveway is about 600 feet, in one case I get quite close to my sunroom. I have a basement entrance that is 5" wider than my blower and about 60 feet long.

It is nice that you don't have to turn your head to see where you are going, but you can't see where your blower is throwing the snow because the chute and deflector are behind you, and you would have to turn your head to see where the snow is going. I rotate my chute quite often and change the deflection angle often. If you don't turn your head, do you use your mirrors to see what is happening behind you?

I don't need my FEL in the winter to move wood. Where I live you had better have the wood you need in the basement before winter arrives. Once it starts snowing here, it gets "head high" quickly.

With my front blower, I can do my outside entrance quite easily, but with 5" of clearance I go very, very slowly. Trying to back my tractor up to the house with 4 feet of snow on the ground and my wheels not touching the grounds, any sliding from side to side could be disastrous. I could imagine the tractor getting stuck driving through deep snow on the easy parts of my drive, and if the wheel weren't touching the ground on your first pass with the blower, a second pass would be needed.

Commercial snow removal people here don't use blowers and tractors in any event. They use plows for quick cleanup and front end loader to haul away the snow when time permits. When we had a Strategic Air Command base here it did use a blower to remove snow from the runway. It had two 16 cylinder diesel engines running the blower and blew the snow 150 into the woods around the runway. Now that was a blower!

I guess if this blower works for you, given your situation, use it. It wouldn't work well here which is why I have never seen one, either on a tractor, or at the dealership. Actually I have only seen a couple people with rear blowers, usually because they have old tractors without front PTO's.

Here is my tractor snowblowing my basement entrance: http://youtu.be/Kl8e-L0qqrE