Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

[Scotty Dive]

I just got a reply from Hoye - that Dipstick Hole Return Fitting isn't available aside from the entire PS kit.

It looks like the only way to run Tank Return into the dipstick hole is to stack some standard hydraulic and plumbing fittings. (Plus a plug with a new longer dipstick). It's not under pressure so this isn't a critical component like the pressurized lines. Back to the drawing board.

I wouldn't be able to make one, but a machine shop could turn you out one to the dimensions using your dip stick and Id of what you plan on doing???

 

[California]

JJ - the only mention of Bailey-Chief loader valves I could find in google aside from the Bailey website is in an old TBN post where you included them in a list. Do you know anyone who has written about them or used them? Bailey's website doesn't show much description and I wonder if there is more information out there somewhere. Thanks!

 

[California]

... a machine shop could turn you out one [dipstick return fitting] to the dimensions using your dip stick and Id of what you plan on doing???

If i were doing this professionally for someone else I would probably do that. But for my own use - if I do this at all, it will likely be just common fittings stacked. Something like Adapter(s)/Nipple/Tee/Plug drilled for longer dipstick. Not elegant, merely functional.

 

[deepNdirt]

for what it's worth here is a photo of the bib 2 spool control I'm using, there is one port been plug off, not sure what it would be for
also a pix of the way I currently have the dump line installed into the dipstick hole, after Looking at it again, the bottom part of thread adapter was nothing more than a steel plumbing bushing, it thread right in place with no problems, why could we not use a longer pipe say 2" this same size in diameter have it threaded on both ends, tap into the side of it to install the dump line, Leaving the top to adapt for the use of the dipstick,....

 

[kenmac]

The small pic that JJ posted is like the sleeve in my prince valve I used for my grapple. The larger pic is like the 1 in my loader valve.Looking at Winstons valve, you can't tell which lines he's using for what. Just a guess ,but it looks like he has 2 ports he could use for tank 1 on top & 1 on the side. The plug on the bottom maybe for PB or just another location he could have supplied pressure to the valve

 

[winston1]

Tied up the rest of the afternoon and have to go to Dallas tomorrow so I will be checking more on the two ports when I can. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[ghenges]

My new LVT valve came with the PB outlet capped and a PB adapter like this packed separately. If this internal plug is installed, it appears to isolate the PB outlet circuit from the Tank outlet circuit inside the valve, routing each to its own opening.

(stock photo)

Added - oops I see JJ already said that.

From the LV Valve Manual

 

[oldnslo]

California,
Does you tractor have a seperate relief before the directional valve? If NO that is the pressure stacking mentioned by another poster.

Brief explanation of what happens:
Most relief valves have there spring chamber connected to the tank port. By effectively blocking the tank line by using the 3PH the relief will NEVER open..
So you must have either a relief before the loader directional valve or a relief between the loader valve and the 3PH to make a system that protects all components from extreme pressures. This still does not eliminate the problem of potentially blowing seals on the loader valve but would significantly help reduce this problem.

 

[California]

California, Does you tractor have a separate relief before the directional valve?

It must be in there somewhere or Yanmar wouldn't recommend putting a loader valve in series ahead of the 3-point. Here's Yanmar's description for using the factory-installed 'divider block'. I copied this from YM240 Operation Manual.

And mine. It has run plumbed this way since new, 30+ years.

Can anyone make sense of the relief circuit in this OEM shop poster? (copied from an ebay listing. Now I wish I had bought it.)

Yanmar Service Manual (Hydraulic Device) Model YM240 has additional information that doesn't appear in the Operation Manual.
"The control valve attached to Port A [Divider Block] should be a 'five ports and three actions' type. When this valve is used, make sure that the Tank port is connected directly to the reservoir."

And the following diagram.



Ok, great. I've never found anything explaining where to 'directly enter the reservoir'.

And a more direct answer to oldnslo's question whether there is a relief ahead of the 3-point control - I still don't know. Maybe somebody can interpret this system diagram. It just gives me a headache.
(Note we are talking about Outlet A, while B is unrelated).



('Outlet A' in both diagrams is the Divider Block shown in the Operation Manual and my photo).

 

[California]

...

I like that! It didn't occur to me that the threads would be US Pipe size. That simplifies everything.

Checking the fluid level with a separate dipstick a few times a year would be no big deal.

Incidentally this picture and mine above also showing the shifter, illustrate that there is no place to drill a return into the top of the transmission on these models.

 

[kenmac]

I had a long talk to dave @ Dave's tractor in red bluff cal. when I was having my problems. If I remember correctly, He told me that yanmar offered a T fitting that screwed into the oil fill .& the oil was returned there. If your tractor has worked fine the way it was plumbed, It may work just fine plumbed the same way provided, they( yanmar) didn't use some special loader valve set up for the was it was plumbed.

 

[California]

I had a long talk to dave @ Dave's tractor in red bluff ...
If your tractor has worked fine the way it was plumbed, It may work just fine plumbed the same way provided, they( yanmar) didn't use some special loader valve

Dave is a great guy. He explained what I needed to know when I bought this YM240 in 2003. And I had the seller of my little Yanmar drop that one off at Dave's shop to take care of some minor stuff before I put it in service. Highly recommended.

I haven't found anyone who knows anything about these old AICO loader controls. Late-70's US Yanmars usually have them plus I've seen them mentioned on Fords so they must have been common back then.

FWIW - I tried a kludge to the old worn out control: I disconnected the curl lever and rotated the spool 180 degrees before reconnecting it. I think it leaked down less today when I moved a tree trunk.

 

[Neat 1500]

Hey Neat, have you any pix of this adapter?

No i dont but i will get some on the weekend for you. my hoses are only 1/4" and that maybe my problem as it seems to require some alot bigger according to that chart?

 

[Neat 1500]

I am attaching some pictures of my "Akon" loader valve on my vn Bulldog loader.:

That is exactly the same one as mine. it has been great to date, without going out to check isnt the top one the tank return, 4 in the middle the cylinders, the lower single one the inlet AND mine has one on the very top which i can see is a plug on yours is the hose that goes to my 3 point which i imagine is my series connection or is it power beyond?

 

[kenmac]

That is exactly the same one as mine. it has been great to date, without going out to check isnt the top one the tank return, 4 in the middle the cylinders, the lower single one the inlet AND mine has one on the very top which i can see is a plug on yours is the hose that goes to my 3 point which i imagine is my series connection or is it power beyond?

.Just a guess from my end of this computer screen.....The 1 that is in series with your 3 pt is probably like mine was. it's an outlet to tank port.Probably don't have a PB. it probably has 4 hoses that feed the loader 2 outlet to tank ports giving an to use top or side. The plug on the bottom is probably going to be another option for pressure .

 

[J_J]

winston1 ,

You have a QD on the input to your FEL valve. That is OK as long as it is connected.

If the QD pops loose for any reason, you will have big trouble, especially if the tractor is running. It will blow the pump or hose or fitting.

Even if the tractor is off and the QD is not connected, as soon as you start the tractor, same thing, something will burst.

You can fix this by installing a relief valve before any valve or QD. Like this.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9- 1556&catname=hydraulic

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6135-50-H&catname=hydraulic

You connect it in series and run the relief outlet to tank.

 

[J_J]

The only reason to plumb in the power beyond is if you need to use the three point hitch simultaneous with loader operation.

If using PB, the first valve in series has priority, and if using all the pump flow, 3pt will not operate, although if only using half lever, some of the fluid will flow to the 3pt.

For those of you not using FEL PB for the 3pt, the 3pt will see relief fluid output, cyl fluid output, or full pump flow through the OUT port of the FEL valve..

 

[ghenges]

winston1 ,

You have a QD on the input to your FEL valve. That is OK as long as it is connected.

If the QD pops loose for any reason, you will have big trouble, especially if the tractor is running. It will blow the pump or hose or fitting.

The pump won't blow.

The special Woodruff key on the pump shaft will shear.
Yanmar designed the mechanical pump connection to shear before destroying the pump or anything driving it.

 

[deepNdirt]

The pump won't blow.

The special Woodruff key on the pump shaft will shear.
Yanmar designed the mechanical pump connection to shear before destroying the pump or anything driving it.

Well this might be a 50% 50% chance of the key shearing, Mine was 50% not to shear, the pump on my YM split wide open,
I'd rather eir on the side of caution then on the side of chance, especially at a $350 cost of a pump verses a 50.00 relief valve,

 

[Car Doc]

JJ makes a good point on the QD fitting, he noticed it because he is tuned in to stuff like that he is just trying to avoid Winston having a breakdown. Whether it is purposely designed in or not none of us wants a (senseless) breakdown on a gray market tractor its different than owning a JD or a Case or Ford we may not be able to find parts fwtw. And I have rarely seen a key sheer that didn't damage the shaft and gear or pulley somewhat. my .002