Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

[oldnslo]

California,
On the schematics you posted on post #49 The second schematic does not show a relief for the 3PH. The relief valve shown for the 3PH is down stream of the control valve and would act more like a surge relief than a system relief. The first schematic with the two spool directional also shows a relief that is connected to tank and the nomenclature also states it must go direct to tank.. What that schematic does not show is which line goes to the 3PH valve.

Oldnslo

 

[California]

schematic does not show ... which line goes to the 3PH valve.

I added:
('Outlet A' in both diagrams is the Divider Block shown in the Operation Manual and my photo.)
to that post to make it (slightly) clearer.

The Divider Block is in the pressure line between the pump and the 3-point assembly.

 

[Car Doc]

The Divider Block is in the pressure line between the pump and the 3-point assembly.

Mine is too, and my pump relief is in the divider thats where my P/S gets line pressure/relief also fwtw.

 

[winston1]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am double cautious when I unhook and hook up my loader as I am aware what will happens if it deadheads. I do remove and install it quite frequently. I know the chance is there for the quick disconnects to come apart so I may have to look into a relief valve. What would be the thought on me just leaving the relief valve opening open to the atmosphere? If it did uncouple and relieve I would think I would have time to react and keep complete disaster from occurring. The cost of a little wasted fluid to me would be better than having to plumb another line into the sump. :thumbsup:

Now on to the power beyond. Two more pictures. The first is looking straight down into the very top unused opening on the valve. It may not be clear enough but there is another set of threads about an inch down in the valve. Guessing that is where the sleeve or plug might go? :confused3: There is an opening in the valve body between those threads and the top gasketed plug.

The second picture is looking straight up into the bottom unused opening. Best I can tell it just shares the same cavity with the bottom inlet line. No idea what it would be used for?

Neat 1500, sounds like you and I have about the same setup except you are plumbed for power beyond. Any idea what the fitting looks like in that top opening? Does your top hose go the the 3 point and where does your top side hose go in to the tank?

Thanks again for everyones willingness to help. :thumbsup:

Back again, just thought of something. I have factory power steering and a diverter block that diverts a set amount of fluid to power steering. This is before the quick disconnect. Wondering if I might be protected there from pump disaster?? Ideas?

 

[Car Doc]

Back again, just thought of something. I have factory power steering and a diverter block that diverts a set amount of fluid to power steering. This is before the quick disconnect. Wondering if I might be protected there from pump disaster?? Ideas?

Very likely. I would add that it wont be pretty (test your gaskets) or sound nice btdt but....thats what the throttle is for shut her down.

 

[kenmac]

Winston, If you and neat have the same valve and he has PB then, it's possible you will have it available to use if you can find the PB sleeve and choose to use it.All this Hydraulic stuff was new to me, until I added loader and then, wanted a Grapple.Now I know just enough to get me in trouble:laughing:

 

[Leejohn]

Why not screw a pipe plug with loctit into the top hole, blow air into P port and air well only come out the PB hole only. If that works then use a oring fitting and hook that hose to the 3pt. and the other one to tank. I would say that is why that hole in the bracket is there in the 1st place. Also I would move the valve so it would stay with the tractor when loader was taken off and put QC on the work ports, then you could take off that QC in the pressure line.

 

[winston1]

Why not screw a pipe plug with loctit into the top hole, blow air into P port and air well only come out the PB hole only. If that works then use a oring fitting and hook that hose to the 3pt. and the other one to tank. I would say that is why that hole in the bracket is there in the 1st place. Also I would move the valve so it would stay with the tractor when loader was taken off and put QC on the work ports, then you could take off that QC in the pressure line.

Had great hopes with your suggestion and went to try it but my problem is I can't identify the threads down in that hole. They are larger than 1/4" npt and smaller than 3/8" npt. I'm supposing they are a metric thread made for Akon's sleeve. I have sent them an email on their websight but no idea whether they will respond to me.

Got to go for awhile but I may try to identify those threads a little closer after a while. I know they are in the 16mm range.

Back with an update for what it is worth. I believe those inside threads are m16-1.5. Just thinking it is a special fitting that should be there.

 

[oldnslo]

I added:
('Outlet A' in both diagrams is the Divider Block shown in the Operation Manual and my photo.)
to that post to make it (slightly) clearer.

The Divider Block is in the pressure line between the pump and the 3-point assembly.

California,
My bad I missed that note. In that case the first schematic shows the relief valve in the directional block and says it must be vented direct to tank. Be nice if they would say or show where to connect it to tank...

 

[oldnslo]

Had great hopes with your suggestion and went to try it but my problem is I can't identify the threads down in that hole. They are larger than 1/4" npt and smaller than 3/8" npt. I'm supposing they are a metric thread made for Akon's sleeve. I have sent them an email on their websight but no idea whether they will respond to me.

Got to go for awhile but I may try to identify those threads a little closer after a while. I know they are in the 16mm range.

Back with an update for what it is worth. I believe those inside threads are m16-1.5. Just thinking it is a special fitting that should be there.

Possible these threads are Japanese JIS Tapered pipe? They would be 3/8-19 and approx 16.7 mm OD on the female thread. JIS tapered and BSTP (British Standard Tapered Pipe) are interchangable.

 

[winston1]

Possible these threads are Japanese JIS Tapered pipe? They would be 3/8-19 and approx 16.7 mm OD on the female thread. JIS tapered and BSTP (British Standard Tapered Pipe) are interchangable.

The metric 1.5 thread gauge seems to fit the threads right on. 19tpi would equate to about 1.3 metric. Sure not positive but another thing that makes me think it is a straight thread is because it is a short thread, I would guess about 3/8" long. I'm still holding my breath "Akon" will respond this next week. Maybe Neat 1500 will shed more light for me.

 

[oldnslo]

The metric 1.5 thread gauge seems to fit the threads right on. 19tpi would equate to about 1.3 metric. Sure not positive but another thing that makes me think it is a straight thread is because it is a short thread, I would guess about 3/8" long. I'm still holding my breath "Akon" will respond this next week. Maybe Neat 1500 will shed more light for me.

M16 x 1.5 is standard size of metric fitting so it could also be that. Normally these types of fittings would have a flat spotface and or a chamfer on them like an american SAE O-ring port.

best of luck on getting the proper fitting and getting your tractor back in operation.

 

[winston1]

Thanks again for your willingness to shed light. The surface does have a little chamfer or bevel on it. I am in operation but have been convinced I'm just not plumbed correctly. I have had absolutly no problems without the power beyond port but still want to do it correctly if possible without buying a new valve or something.

 

[California]

Ok its all back together.

I plumbed the new loader valve the same way it had been for 30 years, with the valve's Out port in series ahead of the 3 point control.

Everything works properly.



Bonus photo! While I was working, this little guy (juvenile coyote, or fox?) came across the front of my open-front tractor stall. He was following a scent and was unconcerned that I noticed him. By the time I reached the camera he seemed annoyed, and departed - moving toward me a few yards (photo) so he could go around the other side of the house.

 

[Neat 1500]

Here are the photos of my tank return and my loader valve.

 

[J_J]

The pump won't blow.

The special Woodruff key on the pump shaft will shear.
Yanmar designed the mechanical pump connection to shear before destroying the pump or anything driving it.

Do you have any reference for your statement about the shaft key.

I just never knew you could select a woodruff key to shear at a selected torque.

In general, a shear key is supposed to be weaker than the surrounding metal .

Shaft Keys - Types and Their Design

Diagram at the bottom of page will explain how compute the torque required to shear.

 

[winston1]

Here are the photos of my tank return and my loader valve.View attachment 301108View attachment 301109View attachment 301110View attachment 301111View attachment 301112

Thank you neat 1500 for the pictures. I know what I need to do now. Only thing holding me back is identifying and procuring whatever fitting is in that top plug hole. Hoping "Akon" will respond but dubious.

California, I have pretty much destroyed your thread. I should have started a new one so I apologize to you and good to know you are up and going with your new valve. We have the coyotes pretty thick here in East Texas. That one almost looks to young to be out on his own.

 

[California]

Winston, don't worry about distracting my inquiry. We have both received a lot of good advice. This thread has accumulated a lot of information that will be helpful to other owners who research this in the future.

For me, I learned that replacing my loader control in series is 'good enough for the girls I go with' as an old Carpenter buddy used to say. In contrast to this, the 'Best Practices' solution is a separate Tank Return like that Kubota dealer started doing.

Also using series configuration, the 3-point lever must be at Down or Hold (not Lift!) so it isn't making back pressure, any time the loader controls are used. If that were in Lift position then the back pressure from the 3-point may be additive to the pressure allowed by the loader control's relief valve.


And finally, my wife saw the critter picture and is sure that's a fox, not coyote. Anybody know? For comparison here are coyote pictures I posted a year ago and below is one from two weeks ago. I still think from the little guy's behavior following a zig-zag scent on the ground and ignoring me, he was probably a baby tracking where Mommy went.

 

[winston1]

After looking at numerous pictures I may have to agree with your wife. Might be a California grey fox. california foxes grey - Bing Images

 

[California]

After looking at numerous pictures I may have to agree with your wife. Might be a California grey fox. california foxes grey - Bing Images

You nailed it! I sent the photo to a friend who is a wildlife biologist with F&G. Just got this back:

That is an adult gray fox. Remarkably they live in close contact with people because they don't perceive us as threats. Every year I speak to at least a dozen people where foxes have had litters under their porches. Pups are frolicking on their patio furniture and even try to enter the house. My guess is that the fox could be denning in the barn - I would not be surprised to see pups around in the spring.