Picking up lots of big-ish rocks

[jb1390]

You want a grapple in my opinion. Backhoe isn't the greatest for transport even if you can hold the stone, and your bucket and jaws aren't large enough for anything irregularly shaped. Having the attachment on the loader also allows you to watch forward as you are working, which is more comfortable. Plus with a grapple you can drop the stone, roll it, pick it up again to get the profile you want when placing.

I have a mechanical thumb on my excavator, and it's a piece of cake. But, that's an excavator. I won't bother putting a thumb on my tractor backhoe, the machine isn't big enough for it to be useful in my opinion, especially since I have a grapple already. If you were to convert to hydraulic, that's even more weight that will be taken away from the already relatively modest lifting capacity.

I have an Everything Attachments compact grapple, with a single lid. For stone work, single lid will be better for you I think. I can pick up anything from the boulder in the photo, to something the size of a grapefruit, and anything in between, without getting off the seat. I think the lid opens to a little more then 3 feet.

Edit: I also have a set of log tongs I modified with angle iron to use for rocks. Those don't have the right geometry to pinch the rock tight enough, and rocks slip out all the time. They are nice at times in that they can hang off the tip of a fork, or the backhoe. If you construct a set or purchase some with longer upper arms so they pinch tighter that would be better than mine. But that said, with the grapple I have now, the tongs haven't seen use in years. But if money is an issue with getting a grapple, tongs will probably get you along good enough with minimal investment.

But if you can swing it, I would recommend you get the grapple and a third function WR Long or equivalent valve with the switch on the loader handle. Even beyond this project they are very useful.

 

[Smokeydog]

Hard to beat a grapple for transporting. Transporting 0.5 to 1 mile would be a pain with an excavator but placing them would be a dream.

Have dug, transported and placed a few with the Danuser Intimdator. Side gripping gives good bottom side placement options.

Have used a chain/pipe to choke and bite to lift or drag stones.

Have a few menhir or standing stones.

Farm has the remains of horse drawn stone boat. Large foundation and chimney stones of the homestead log cabin stand testament to the ability to move and place large stones before hydraulic oil was invented.

 

[ning]

You want a grapple in my opinion. Backhoe isn't the greatest for transport even if you can hold the stone, and your bucket and jaws aren't large enough for anything irregularly shaped. Having the attachment on the loader also allows you to watch forward as you are working, which is more comfortable. Plus with a grapple you can drop the stone, roll it, pick it up again to get the profile you want when placing.

I have a mechanical thumb on my excavator, and it's a piece of cake. But, that's an excavator. I won't bother putting a thumb on my tractor backhoe, the machine isn't big enough for it to be useful in my opinion, especially since I have a grapple already. If you were to convert to hydraulic, that's even more weight that will be taken away from the already relatively modest lifting capacity.

I have an Everything Attachments compact grapple, with a single lid. For stone work, single lid will be better for you I think. I can pick up anything from the boulder in the photo, to something the size of a grapefruit, and anything in between, without getting off the seat. I think the lid opens to a little more then 3 feet.

Edit: I also have a set of log tongs I modified with angle iron to use for rocks. Those don't have the right geometry to pinch the rock tight enough, and rocks slip out all the time. They are nice at times in that they can hang off the tip of a fork, or the backhoe. If you construct a set or purchase some with longer upper arms so they pinch tighter that would be better than mine. But that said, with the grapple I have now, the tongs haven't seen use in years. But if money is an issue with getting a grapple, tongs will probably get you along good enough with minimal investment.

But if you can swing it, I would recommend you get the grapple and a third function WR Long or equivalent valve with the switch on the loader handle. Even beyond this project they are very useful.

I have a hard time imagining placing large rocks on a rock wall with a grapple. Placing an individual rock onto an open area yes, but if you're trying to place a 250# rock right next to another similar rock, it seems to me that the grapple would have to drop it at a certain point and that could be a problem.

My rocks are all almost where I want them now; I actually just need to drag them away from a work space, do more work, but then carefully place them.

So far, I think I may try some augmented tongs first (like $100-200) and then most likely rent a mini-ex ($350-400 for a day here) for careful placement.

 

[Vigo327]

A rental would make more sense for a small job but id also suggest you just modify whatever you have until it does what you want. There's no rule saying you can't add metal to the end of your thumb or cut and weld the last 6 inches on at a different angle, etc. Having a power thumb would be nice but just making the one you have better at gripping what you actually try to grip with it, is an equally sound investment of time and probably a lot less time if you're already intimately familiar with hydraulics.

 

[ning]

A rental would make more sense for a small job but id also suggest you just modify whatever you have until it does what you want. There's no rule saying you can't add metal to the end of your thumb or cut and weld the last 6 inches on at a different angle, etc. Having a power thumb would be nice but just making the one you have better at gripping what you actually try to grip with it, is an equally sound investment of time and probably a lot less time if you're already intimately familiar with hydraulics.

I've wondered if simply strapping some horse stall mat rubber to the thumb may not help a bunch! Like, cut some and wire it on really tight, expecting the rubber & wire to be destroyed every once in a while.

 

[jb1390]

I have a hard time imagining placing large rocks on a rock wall with a grapple. Placing an individual rock onto an open area yes, but if you're trying to place a 250# rock right next to another similar rock, it seems to me that the grapple would have to drop it at a certain point and that could be a problem.

My rocks are all almost where I want them now; I actually just need to drag them away from a work space, do more work, but then carefully place them.

So far, I think I may try some augmented tongs first (like $100-200) and then most likely rent a mini-ex ($350-400 for a day here) for careful placement.

My excavator is better, and has stronger bite, but I have built walls with my grapple. With stones much heavier than 250 pounds at times. You bite it with the corner, set it in place, then release. A wider double lid grapple would be worse than my narrow single lid for that particular purpose.

But if you don't have regular use for a grapple (would shock me for anyone that owns a tractor, but who knows), then rental of a mini x would make sense for you. Certainly if your only purpose is building walls a mini x is going to be a better tool.

 

[ericm979]

You could dig them out with the backhoe (if they need digging), stage them with pallet forks or bucket, and then use the rental mini ex to place them.

 

[m7040]

A minix is the best for pick up and placement. I would load them in the tractor bucket with the x and dump them close to placement and then use the x to place them accurately.
If you have time I am sure there are cheaper ways

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Your issue is going to be placement...not really getting them out in my opinion. Getting them out you could use pallet forks, a bucket, maybe even something to push them into a spot. However placing them is going to require more precision.


If you can get them out of the way with what you have you could rent an excavator with a hyd thumb to place them. It would be much faster.

All that's needed is adding a grapple to the pallet forks, then you can precisely put them any place you want.

Plus there's a zillion other uses for that combo.

SR

 

[Williy]

Many years ago; 400 lbs was easy for me to
pickup but 19 years behind a desk and now
I can still handle the 80 lb cement bags but
if I get a rock to big for me to push into the
bucket I use a strap and winch it in.

willy

 

[etpm]

A few years ago I had to place a several 400 pound plus rocks. I used the front loader on my Case 580CK backhoe to move them for a distance and got them close to where my wife wanted them placed. I then used chain wrapped around the rocks and the front loader again to lift the rocks, so the rocks were hanging below the loader. Exact placement was pretty easy because I could just steer the machine with the rock hanging below the loader. The whole process was pretty fast. I made sure there were NEVER any body parts in danger of being crushed if the rock came loose of the chain. Even though everything worked out well I would rent a mini excavator with a hydraulic thumb if I had to place more than 15 big rocks. Just because of the time involved. Plus, the mini with the hydraulic thumb is so fast and easy to use I'm sure I could find other jobs to use up the minimum half day rental fee.
Eric

 

[mikester]

Rent an 8 ton mini-x with rotating rock grapple like this

 

[Hay Dude]

Backhoes are excellent for digging out and removing rocks like that.

 

[Vigo327]

So it's not great, it's not on my backhoe right now, but when i needed to place a bunch of broken concrete around a culvert i installed, i bought this $250 'rock grabber' from Northern Tool. They sell it for their towable hoe but i figured out the pin diameter and spacing would fit my small backhoe.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/nortrac-rock-grabber-for-trencher-item-985619-15-3-4in-l-x-7-7-8in-w-x-15-3-8in-h-98564

It didn't work exactly like i wanted it to, but it did get the job done that i was doing, and i still have it. Im going to convert the thumb portion to hydraulic but i need to cut out and rebuild the middle section so it will lay back further when 'stowed', and the 'bucket' thing it came with is nearly useless except as the basis for building something better out of. I plan to build a kind of bucket off of it.

 

[Smokeydog]

So it's not great, it's not on my backhoe right now, but when i needed to place a bunch of broken concrete around a culvert i installed, i bought this $250 'rock grabber' from Northern Tool. They sell it for their towable hoe but i figured out the pin diameter and spacing would fit my small backhoe.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/nortrac-rock-grabber-for-trencher-item-985619-15-3-4in-l-x-7-7-8in-w-x-15-3-8in-h-98564

It didn't work exactly like i wanted it to, but it did get the job done that i was doing, and i still have it. Im going to convert the thumb portion to hydraulic but i need to cut out and rebuild the middle section so it will lay back further when 'stowed', and the 'bucket' thing it came with is nearly useless except as the basis for building something better out of. I plan to build a kind of bucket off of it.
View attachment 789995

Amazing what people can come up with to complete a job with what they have.

 

[Jchonline]

All that's needed is adding a grapple to the pallet forks, then you can precisely put them any place you want.

Plus there's a zillion other uses for that combo.

100-500# rocks are pretty tiny. To me unweildy for a grapple, at least mine (EA wicked). Especially if on hill or slope. Yours with only the 1 top and 2 bottom tines seems better suited.

 

[M59]

I had a mechanical thumb on my BH92 hoe and converted it to hydraulic. I found it only slightly more useful for moving rock and regretted spending the money.

bdhsfz6,

I am going to politely disagree that a hydraulic thumb is "only slightly more useful for moving rock" unless your talking about moving rock from one location to another some distance away. A hydraulic thumb allows me to keep the pressure on whatever I have grabbed ( rocks, logs, upright tree ) regardless of the angle of the bucket. I can roll the bucket all the way out or full curl in and not drop whatever I have grabbed. Great for placing rocks/ slabs into almost any position and place I can reach with backhoe.

I use the M59's hydraulic thumb for adding rock slabs, shingle style, to the creek bank to prevent erosion. The road is too narrow to face to creek with tractor, so tractor is ninety degrees to creek and hoe reaches over bank edge to place rock slabs upright against the bank. Precise work that requires the control/grip of the rock, that only hydraulic thumb can provide.

Rebuilt a road and ditch due to bad water erosion. Used backhoe to place row of upright, shingle style, slabs of rock. Pics attached.

The M59's thumb's hydraulic circuit has a lower relief valve pressure than the bucket cylinder so curling the bucket causes the thumb to move while still maintaining full pressure on gripped item.

I use the grapple to move a bunch of needed rock to the location, then use the backhoe to choose and place the rocks into final position.

 

[mo1]

For a 100 to 500 pound rock, just use the loader bucket and a pry bar/pipe if needed. Depending on how the rock is situated, you can either dig/pry the rock out with the bucket directly, use a piece of pipe or a pry bar to pry it into the bucket, or just roll it into the bucket. I've moved quite a few rocks that size that way.

 

[Doz]

I’ve moved a ton of rocks go rent a mini-ex. With a hyd. Thumb done deal!

 

[olenjohn]

I have many many medium to large rocks, ranging from "I can pick this up possibly without getting a hernia" to "I can't possibly budge this", as in 100-500# (I did say "rocks" not "boulders", though some of these may be boulders depending on the definition), that I need to move, and then later place nicely.
Basically, I'm excavating a small pond near our garden, and after I'm done excavating and setting up the pond just right (shaping, then placing a liner) I'd like to arrange these rocks which I've already dug up nicely around the rim of the pond.

Current tools: tractor with backhoe. has mechanical thumb.

I've used the mechanical thumb some, but honestly so far I've found it difficult to use. More often than not, the rocks I'm trying to grab just slip out of the jaws, and it seems like every rock needs the opening set to a different point, and if I choose a different grab angle on the rock, once again I need to change the opening.

Two things I'm considering:
1) cheaper - log/rock tongs. I'm guessing that these most likely will require a helper to use both in picking up the rocks and for precise placement. Log tongs appear to be as cheap as $130 (tsc), but I'm not sure if the 4-pointed version is going to be that useful on irregular rocks or if the points will grab ok on rocks (vs trees where they obviously bite into the bark).
2) more complex - convert my thumb to hydraulic
There's a couple nice threads here about the actual conversion (

BX hydraulic thumb

I will be posting how I did the project soon, but first here is a teaser. It is a modified Wallenstein thumb which had annoyed me with getting on and off the tractor to set it.

www.tractorbynet.com

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/mechanical-thumb-conversion-to-hydraulic.287591/).

I think in the long run I'd really like having the hydraulic thumb, but it may be more work than I'm able to do before I want to get the rocks moved.

So for my actual questions:
- any have any hints for using the mechanical thumb more effectively?
- anyone have experience using tongs for picking up big rocks?
- to be really specific, has anyone with a branson BH76 backhoe w/ thumb converted it to hydraulic?

Consider using a “stone boat” to move the rocks. Google stone boat if you don’t know. It can be built any size to accommodate your needs. The backhoe would be used to roll the rocks onto the boat / sled. It may be a slow go but the lifting is minimize.