MiG welder: how thick can it weld?

[GuglioLS]

By the way, a MiG is a Russian fighter which probably doesn't make good welds.

Says who?

Pics of my Russian MiG:




Larry

 

[Diamondpilot]

My next project is to build a trailer to trailer my ISEKI G-174.....My new Lincoln 125 amp 20% duty cycle 110 /120 volt is my new toy and has no gas option....or should I say if I buy the gas valves etc....I think this unit is A/C input and DC output....my only question would be...."What" speed...(like dial setting) ....or would trial and error....or just plain practice be the answer I'm lookin' for....I'm usin' 0.35 wire that came supplied with the unit...I owned a gas/flux mig welder unit about 2 years ago that was made in Italy....I didn't care for it at all....so I returned it and bought a O/A Harris copy(China Made) this set sort off blew up(caught fire) my fault for not checkin' the tip as it mentioned to just finger tighten the tips....Hmmmm....so much for that idea.....so I went with the Victor copy so far so good.....first thing I check now is the tip for tightness before turning on the tank valves....anyhow I'm all ears on this mig welding subject....my first welding job a couple days ago....I welded the wire to the brass tip....that sucker is welded better than the metal I was weldin'.... yes and alot of splatter...that is also tough to remove....so I'm confident this little portable will weld what I need to weld....just need practice....and a little knowledge....yes I bought the auto darkening helmet....Thanks guys.....Ampa :thumbsup:

There is no way in the world I would build a trailer to transport anything at speed with a 120 volt unit. I have been welding for years and have yet to see a 120 volt unit that could do that job.

Chris

 

[Transit]

I have a miller 135 110v mig that I like a lot but at only 10% duty cycle, unless I'm only tacking up some work, it gets to be problematic. Duty cycle, btw, is how many minutes per hr you can safely weld. So 10% is 6 min per hr. I'd spend the dough and get a good 220 machine. Also, get a good autodimming helmet. It will make life much easier for you. I'm going to either the 211 or 252 Miller to get a superior machine. Spend some time at millerwelds.com Their instructional videos are excellent. I wouldn't worry about welding 1/2" in one pass necessarily. In a previous life I made a living as a welder. It is not uncommon to just layer one course on top of another to fill a weld and be able to control the heat, penetration, and general quality/appearance.

I have a Syncrowave 180 for Stick and tig which I intend to turn into a mig welder via sale/purchase. The 180 is a nice machine but my eyes and lack of practice have made tig about unbearable for me now. There was a time I could make any welding test anywhere and I was a hand with tig...but you don't just walk up to it and do quality work...so mig is where it is at for me today. Practice, practice, practice!

Duty cycle rating is, the time you may weld in a 10 minute interval without overheating the unit. 30% duty cycle = weld for 3 minutes and rest with the unit on [fan running] for 7 minutes. Always keep the fan running even if the unit shuts down the welding circuit to keep it cooling.

 

[ampa]

I must be lucky....I put together a trailer to haul a slide in camper that I removed from my little Ford Ranger before I sent the truck to the bone yard....I had this camper packed with all kinds of stuff....and it was heavy....I done all the welding with that Italian made mig welder....and the only pieces that came apart were bolted so it didn't cause any problems....I agree a 220 stick welder would be the correct way to go....but like I mentioned on one of my threads..... my lady and I just rent....and I can't justify installing an outside 220/240 volt box to build just one trailer......I do have an Italian guy that builds custom trailers and has done welding for my snow ploughs....I could just tack it together without loading anything on it to trailer it to him to weld it correctly....probely cost me a lot less than buying a stick welder and installing the 220/240 outside box receptical....I think this would be the best route to go....Thanks for the info.....Ampa

 

[Transit]

Ampa... your "tip to work" distance (stick out) should be around 3/8".
if you melted the wire to the tip, then you must have touched the tip to the metal you are trying to weld.
remember that the Cu tip is going to be hot (live) when you pull the trigger. try this; have the wire sticking out of the tip around 3/8 to 1/2", touch the wire to the metal, then pull the trigger.
I wouldn't be welding a trailer until you are a little more experienced.
also, if the wire you are using says AWS class E71T-GS on it, it's mostly intended for static loading and sheet metal work I.E. hand rails, fenders, hobby crafts and such.
it is not intended for dynamic loading, as it has no requirements for impacts... especially at low temps.
thus, you can use it on some parts of a trailer, but not all.
you may want to save up for a AC/DC stick machine so you can cover most situations. you'll need 220 V supply though.
good luck.

If you are welding the wire to the tip, one of three things is wrong.
Too much heat for the stock thickness.
The wire speed is too slow and allowing the arc to burn back to the tip.
You are holding the tip too close to the work.

 

[orezok]

t
you're right, MIG is a Jet fighter,

Almost but not quite!

A MIG is a welder
A MiG (Mikoyan-i-Gurevich Design Bureau) is a Russian fighter. Small i.

 

[topofthehil]

yes, there is a E71T-11 class, but that is not the class that comes with the 110 V welders. also, it is a multiple pass electrode, but it is still limited (not recommended) for thickness greater than 3/4" metal.
unless it's static, I would not use it in a deep groove weldment. and then, I still would not use it. if you need a self shield wire, a T-8 would be a better choice, but you will need a larger machine.
it may look like FC runs hotter than solid wire, but 200 amps is 200 amps.
typically a core wire will have better penetration and higher deposition than a solid wire because of the make up of the wire. the metal sheath that surrounds the flux allows for a higher current density at a specific amperage. however, DCEN wires will have less penetration than that of a DCEP wire. that being said, it will weld better on thinner material.

 

[user.69169]

Well durnit, all this talk about welding and Mig weldres went and peaked my curioscity, so I walked over to the neighbors, he's the one who has welders, not the other neighbor who has the biting poodle I can't stand.

So, as I was saying, I walked over there, and asked a lot of questions. I was thrilled when he let me weld with his mig welder thing, and I tell you once I got past being scared of what was going to happen when I pulled the trigger I actually welded some metal onto the other metal from the nozzle things. This welding thing is just amazing. With less than 5 minutes of practice I was a welder.

Now if its that simple to weld, why don't more people do it. Turns out according to my neighbor dang near anybody can as long as they can hang onto the gun thing and pull a trigger. He was right nothing to welding at all. You just set two hunks of metal side by side, line up on that sucker and fill the middle in with weld stuff.

Then came the highlite of the evening. My neighbor, the good one, not the one with the poodle pulled out his newest toy. We even had coffee as he showed me this new invention. It's real easy since his house has a walkout basement and his shop is in the basement, he just intercoms upstairs to the woman and she puts the coffee service in the dumbwaiter he built with all his machinery & tools and it's right there in the basement in a jiffie. I was looking at the dumwaiter and thinking I could make one, but I don't even think I'd be well off intercoming the wife for anything. I don't have a walkout basement either so everything would have to come into my shop thru the living room, and Elsa would probably pitch a hissie.

Where was I, oh, the new toy. He has this welder that is battery driven and slicker than slick 50. You can carry this little welder anyplace, well out inthe rain might not be a good idea, and I forgot to ask about welding the boat dock, but just about anyplace, and he says you can weld anything with it. He was going to show me how it worked but the battery needed to be recharged. Ain't that always the way with rechargable tools. So I'm going ot go back over with a little project I been bending up, and try out that battery welder. He says its made by Hobart. That's real easy to remember cause Hobart stands for Hobby + art. I couold get me one of them battery welders and set up a booth at the flea market, and probably make my investment back in no time. Lord knows investing in the stock market never came out good for me.

 

[bobodu]

The best thing about those little MIGs is that they often come with cool laser guides!!
Paint em green and yeller an you can build space ships.

Hey (removed)....about that poodle...ground a piece of sheet metal and play tug with the torch.

 

[Bill_C]

Can a 110 volt MIG weld a trailer?

My answer: sure, IF the steel is 3/16 inch thick or less, and IF the weldor (the person welding) is competent, and IF the steel has been properly prepped (cleaned, wire brushed).

Example: The frame on my travel trailer is made up of 1/8 thick flats, welded to make a fabricated I-beam. The spring hangers are directly welded to the bottom "flange" without any reinforcing gussets at all. Not the best design...one of the spring hangers ripped off, taking the lower flange with it. I did part of the repair with my 220 volt Hobart Handler 175, but had to turn the voltage way down to avoid burning through. This was using 0.035 solid wire and 100% CO2. Eventually the wind picked up, I set the Hobart aside and grabbed the old Lincoln Weldpak 100, loaded with 0.035 fluxcore. It still has more than enough "oomph" to burn through. (Duty cycle is not a real problem for me, I'd weld a minute or so, stop and check things out, clean slag, put out the fires in the grass or my socks...)

Would I trust the 110 volt Lincoln to weld 3/8 inch plate on a trailer? NO WAY! As alluded to earlier, the problem is this: The welder only can deliver a certain amount of heat. The thicker material acts as a heat sink, soaking up the heat from the weld. If the weld is limited in power, there's incomplete fusion because the steel can't be heated up enough. Multiple passes don't do any good either.

There was a very good thread on this on the Welding Web site a year or so ago, complete with graphs, charts, and pictures of cross-sections of welded joints. Their general consensus was that a 110-volt wire-feed, with proper techniques, could weld 3/16 inch thick adequately (meeting requirements). 1/4 inch was marginal. Above 1/4 inch was not feasible.

 

[gerard]

Lot of good info here but I agree with Diamond pilot, get a small mig and a stick. I was where you were a few years ago so I took the BOCES course for basic welding. Then bought a lincoln tombstone new (about $260) and used that for a few years. Finally got a lincoln 120v mig and now use both. Smaller stuff the mig is great, much better control. Bigger stuff that I need to stay together I use the stick though I usually tack the work together with the MIG, then do all the finish welds with the stick. Get a decent machine, for low use it should last you a lifetime.

 

[Stampeder]

Well guys, I frequent this site as well as a welding site. One of the guys there was mentioning the fellow from Britain who restore tanks. In one of their episondes they were taking two sherman's an making one good one. Well it turns out that the armour plated front of the Shermans ( I think it was 4 or 5 inches think) was welded to the turret with a MIG welder using Stainless steel wire. According to the guy on the show this was the way they did it in the forties when they built the tanks in the factory. He had a gas fed MIG to do his and A LOT OF PASSES.
So it's basic metallurgy. With the right heat and the right wire.......

Cheers.

 

[Bill_C]

MIG was developed in 1948, here's one of several sites discussing its history
Mig Welding History

so it certainly wasn't used in WWII. I have an 8th edition of the Lincoln Procedure Handbook, written 1945 (but re-published 1947), and there's no mention of MIG in there.

For thick plate like a tank, I would suspect a submerged arc method (with a wire feed) was used, where the flux is deposited separately ahead of the arc. My old handbook shows this procedure welding a 1.5 inch plate in 2 passes, at 1100 amps!!! with a 7/32 wire feed.

 

[ampa]

Chris....I follow your many talents here on TractorByNet........I just wish I had a small %...I'm new at welding as I mentioned.... although my new 120 volt Lincoln welder came with a DVD...it showed the instructor welding up 1/4 stock with good penatration....my idea of a small 110/120 volt mig welder like mine is....anything over 100 amps is suffecient for at least 1/8 stock I'm sure....That DECCA(Italian Made) I mentioned had at most 65 amps AC....this Lincoln has 125 amps DC....which by anyones standard is plenty for welding a 1/8 square stock trailer frame .... yes the square stock I'll be using is about 1/8....but like you mentioned you have been welding for years and know what your doin'....where as in my case...don't...but with alot of practice...questions asked and answerd I should be good to go...and if not....then like I mentioned I'll tack this trailer together and ship it off to the professional to weld up....I mostly bought this 120 volt mig welder to build a light weight cabin. on my tractor rather than use bolts...which would mean alot of drilling.....Thanks Chris for your output/interest...take care...Ampa..:thumbsup:

 

[user.69169]

Some days you just can't seem to win, and today was one of them. Harrison called, he's the neighbor with all the welders, and said to stop over cause he had some time to show me how to weld with that battery driven welder of his. Well, as luck would have it I was all the way finished with my Readers Digest, I don't like stopping in the middle cause I loose track of the story line, so I head off across the back yard. Now I swear that little poodle of Elviras just spends all his day hunkered down in some secret spot waiting for me to get midway between two safe spots. There I am midway when the little buzzard comes a yappin and a runnin right at me. Now this has happened before, way too many times before, but today the little sucker almost got the better of me. Good thing I sidestepped when he lunged or I wouldn't be havin no reason to look for another new wife I'll tell you. He went flyin thru the air and found himself stuck in the snowbank. Normally I'd help one of God's creatures, but not this dang poodle, no way.

I get over to Harrisons, and tell him about the poodle, and he being the big hearted fellow takes himself a chunk of pipe and a hunk of rope, and I'm thinking he's going to do the poodle in for sure. Turns out he threaded the rope through the pipe and came walking back leading that little yapper with the pipe between the two of them. Harrison said even though the dog is a neighborhood blight he just can't let one of Gods critters suffer, and since the little monster has one of them goofy haircuts Harrison figured it would freeze out there cause Elvira and her hubby were at Square Dancing clinic. Harrison has evidently had previous encounters with the monster cause he has a wire jailcell he puts him in.

Well, we get to welding, and eventually motormouth shuts up in his cell, and I'm concentrating on what Harrison is showing me which ain't one bit easy with that helmet on. Nest thing we know Elvira's at the shop door looking for her monster. Harrison asks me to go set the monster free so Elvira can reclaim him, and I go flip the latch on the cell with a long stick while I was standing on a milk crate for my safety. That's when it happened.

That dang yapper made a beeline direct for the door and ran under the welding bench where Harrison was making sparks. Before I could say Gimminee I saw a flash of light and a cloud of smoke. Best we figure, Elvira put hairspray on that little monster, and one of the sparks hit the hairspray, and woooosh! Elvira's standing there in the doorway and that brainless mutt goes right betwixt her legs still on fire. Well let me tell you, all them petticoats that woman waers, and she wears so many she has to ride in the back seat while Ernest drives, are not one bit fireproof. Fortunately by then Harrison has stopped welding, and sees what is happening. He grabs the fire extinguisher and heads right for Elvira. Good thing was he got there real fast, and put her fire out before she even knew she was flaming, but the bad thing was we both learned Elvira has a nasty mouth on her. She's also got a poodle who will be needing a coat for the rest of this winter as we figure. Dang mutt looks a lot more like a mexican hairless tonight.

Elvira waddled off sort of dragging her dancing skirt, them things are real long when you ain't got the petticoats under em, and she is a substantial woman if you know what I mean. I look at Harrison and he at me, and we both decided we were done for the day. I tell you that shop stinks to high heaven of burned poodle hair. It sort of reminded me of whan I was a lad and mother overheated the curling iron she used on my sisters hair. You know, I never did get to test drive that battery driven welder.

 

[59 Sons]

And with that, well, there really is nuthin left to say.

 

[Defective]

And with that, well, there really is nuthin left to say.

Been that way for a whole year so far...:laughing:

 

[gerard]

A lot of good info here, I'll second a few comments as a hobby farm welder. I took a BOCES course to learn which was useful. Then I bought a lincoln tombstone 220v stick welder ($200 new), and a 110v lincoln mig($500 new). You really cover most situation this way. I mig the smaller stuff, stick the big stuff. You get some crazy penetration with 6011 rod, even if not pretty. I also use the mig to tack big jobs together, then finish off with stick. If money is less of a factor, you can't go wrong with a 220v mig machine but you're probably looking at $1500 for a quality unit.

 

[Scrambler82]

Just to add to the thread.

Have a Miller 210 MIG, (220V) nice welder does almost everyhting I need to.
If welding heavier metal ⅜" and ½”, I use my old trusted and true Craftsman Buzz Box, sometimes I will weld ⅜” with the MIG.
Had the Buzz Box Stick Welder since… well for a long time and it still welds fine.

If there is a Safety Factor included in the welding, then I get a friend with a large portable unit to do the work.. better in the long run.

 

[tnjind]

I welded up a broken excavator quick tach last night, I used the 450 amp Esab. I prepped (beveled) the 5/8 plates and after clamping and tacking I set her up in spray arc. Awsome, just like holding lightning.

After saying that, I probably use my little Hobart 135 the most of all the welders. I have probably ran more than 300 lbs. of wire through it so far.

The 350 synchrowave is an awesome machine for tig and stick but a little much for the average home owner.