Man killed while felling trees

Varmintmist · Oct 7, 2004

wedge and notch are 2 different things. A notch is what you cut into the falling side of the tree and a wedge is what you insert into the felling cut.

http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/?url=%2Fnode1462%2Easp%3Fframes%3Dfalse

This is a very good pictorial overview of how to fell trees and some good saftey tips.

FYI, I dropped a lot of trees, and spend a lot of time with a saw I AM NOT A PRO. I do what I need to and am fairly good at it. I ran 6 gallons of bar oil through my saws last summer, and only about 3 this summer. That does NOT mean that I enjoy felling trees, that means that MOST of the time, I get them to drop where I want them and am pretty confident that they will go down safely. I also make sure I have a place to run, because I have done that to. The ones that get you aren't the ones that look ugly, because you take your time. Its the "easy" ones that you have to watch.

Junkman · Oct 7, 2004

This picture from another post comes to mind about pros cutting trees.......

Mark4510 · Oct 7, 2004

Varmintmist,
Amen to that. We burn wood for most of our heat and, as a result, go through a lot of wood. I can't remember a year that we have not cut wood.

Three things about cutting trees make me nervous every time:
1. Limbs raining down on me while cutting
2. The tree getting away from me and I have no path out.
3. Wood shrapnel when the tree lands.

I have not had a problem so far but perhaps that is because the have a healthy dose of respect/fear for the whole process.

Mark.

Varmintmist · Oct 7, 2004

( Varmintmist,
Amen to that.

I have not had a problem so far but perhaps that is because the have a healthy dose of respect/fear for the whole process.

Mark. )

Zzzactly. The second you dont respect it, it will bite you.

44trxfun · Oct 7, 2004

( so I gave up after cutting as much as I could get to, thinking it would come down the rest of the way by itself when the wind blew...and it did...about 5 months later!)

This seems like a smart way to go under certain circumstances, but it might be a good idea to mark that tree as a hazard in case the "uninformed" happen to be there on that windy day.

Libertine · Oct 10, 2004

Junkman:

If you have limited experience, I would ask for help from someone experienced before tackling a 70' high 30" diameter tree. 

ummm. Good advice. Unfortunately it's already down, cut up, brush chipped, etc. Was very nervous about it because it was leaning (slightly) in the opposite direction from which it needed to fall and I didn't want it going over on a storage container & the house! It was a dual trunked elm. The 1/2 leaning the right way was easy. Spent far more time looking, meditating and sleeping on it than it took to get it down. Rather than shimmeying/laddering up (I hate heights) to cut branches weighing (pulling it) in the wrong direction, connected via rope & chain about 25'-30' up and pulled with tractor to see if I could get if to move. It did just a hair so I knew tractor could move it. Then began notching in direction of fall with slight back cut. Took two tries (two cuts to deepen notch) & the tractor finally pulled in over exactly where I wanted it. I took a few photos with 35mm will digitize & postem.

Am almost done with a smaller (height about 30'-35') one about 15"-18" diameter (it's an old one that had been pruned back at the top in prior years) where the limbs were curling around a pole & wires. Don't know how much time spent studying that one before each cut to see how each branch would fall. Anyway, am now down to two small branches above the wires (got the biggest one down yesterday). Hope to finish that today and cut & pull the trunk over. Whew. Very careful, very slow, one step at a time.

Regarding get the chain stuck in a cut, the only time that has happened to me was when cutting up a trunk after felling. And that was my fault for not paying attention to the way the trunk lay (i.e. stress/weight factors).

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JEH

PS Your pic of the beaver crushed under his own tree cute. Tells a nice story about felling trees!!!!!

Libertine · Oct 10, 2004

slowzuki:

 The main purpose of the "wedge" or notch is so the hinge doesn't break too soon when the tree is felled. The hinge is the most important part of felling a tree. Hollow/rotten trees are dangerous because they don't have good material to form a hinge with. 

Thanks for your description on the use of wedges. Question? Are the wedges the same kind of wedge used for log splitting, or, is there a special "tree felling" wedge?

Actually, I do have a rotted out (hollow core) black cherry (I think it is) to take out (after another large dual trunked elm). I realized I might have to handle that one a bit differently and I appreciate your comments. It's not real big (I am guessing around 50') and doesn't have a lot of protruding branches to worry about so the main concern is the trunk. But it is about 15'-20' from electric/telephone lines so will have to make sure it falls in the right direction.

Again, thanks.

JEH

Libertine · Oct 10, 2004

Varmintmist:

Thanks for the reference. Lotta good stuff there. My very limited knowledge of it came from studying forestry textbooks and starting with small stuff. First tree I ever did was only 15'-20'. It seems the bottom line is go slow, think it out, plan carefully BEFORE you do anything and pay attention to what's going on. Of course, that's really the secret to safety in anything. Thanks again.

JEH

GaryM · Oct 10, 2004

( Thanks for your description on the use of wedges. Question? Are the wedges the same kind of wedge used for log splitting, or, is there a special "tree felling" wedge?)

The wedges used for splitting are made of steel. The wedges used for tree felling are plastic or aluminum. You wouldn't want to accidently hit a steel wedge with your running saw chain. The plastic or aluminum wedges won't damage your chain. At least not as much anyway. I use plastic myself.

Varmintmist · Oct 11, 2004

Plastic felling wedges are available at pretty much any saw shop. Some shops dont carry them because most firewood cutters dont use them, and the guys that do already have them. You might have to look around.

They also come in handy when you are cutting a downed "stressed" tree. Ie, downpressure in the center of the tree. Normally you can top cut through a bit then undercut and let it go. However, if you (or me /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) go to far with the top cut, the saw binds. With a wedge and a 2lb hammer, you just pop the wedge once into the cut with the hammer, and pull the saw out. No fuss, no muss, no damage to the bar,chain, or back.

You can use a splitting wedge, IF you are not going to use the saw in the tree again. EX. You have the hollow cherry. (Every hollow is special so you figure out how to cut your own.) You get your notch(s) cut and back cut and the tree sets on the felling cut. Its just sitting there on your felling wedge. Insert a splitting wedge or two and get a bigger hammer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif When you hear the tree creak right after you just applied the 8-12 lb convincer, back up, its ready to go.

Putting pressure on the tree with a come-a-long or tractor is good. Come-a-long is probably safer unless you have enought rope to get the tractor away from the place the tree will fall. I think I have more control with wedges. But both is always good. Put pressure on with the tractor, and tap you wedges in to get it to fall.

Libertine · Oct 12, 2004

Varmintmist (& GaryM):

Plastic felling wedges are available at pretty much any saw shop 

Ah, plastic. Sounds good to me. Gonna go get some.

Putting pressure on the tree with a come-a-long or tractor is good 

Actually, the way I've been doing it is to put tension on the tree with the tractor. Then make two cuts, maybe 30%-35% of total diameter (felling cut mostly & some back cut). Then try to pull it over. If it doesn't go, cut just a bit more & try again. That way I don't "accidently" cause a fall which pulls the tractor & the thing goes over the wrong way. I always use rope/chain as long as the tree is high, then add another 20' chain for good measure. Since attachment of rope is always 20'-25' up, the actual distance from the base of the tree to the tractor is plenty long (unless the tree "bounces" a bunch in my direction-hardly likely). Got the tree down by the power lines Sunday. Whew. That really made me nervous. Am digging out the stump now with the BH.

(Every hollow is special so you figure out how to cut your own.) 

Your comments made me re-looki at it. Actually measuring the height it's actually taller than I though. But there's only a few limbs, two of which are low enough to take down first which should make the only the main trunk and one higher limb. I'm going to be studying on that (especially after your comments on hollow trees) for awhile before I tackle that one. Don't want to end up like the beaver in the post above!!!!!

Anyway, thanks for your helpful suggestions.

JEH

Varmintmist · Oct 12, 2004

Just a thought but trying to drag the tree over might not be a great idea. When you pressure it and let off the tree rocks back. If it keeps moving then you are in for a tractor ride if its big enough. OR you might drop it into the power. make your notch, take up tension on the tree with the tractor so that the tree wants to go in the general direction of the tractor and notch. Then do your felling cut.

Bouncing the tree, not a real good plan. IMHO

slowzuki · Oct 13, 2004

Careful using a tractor, it doesn't take much tree to outweigh a tractor.

TBAR · Oct 13, 2004

After spending years with my dad cutting firewood I now hate doing it. I only cut trees when absolutely necessary and not for firewood.

Why you ask.........I saw my dad almost get killed/maimed twice when we were cutting.

First time I witnessed the chain saw kick back on him and he stopped it just one inch from his face. No kick back safetys back then.

The second time he was not so lucky. He had cut a big tree that as it fell hung a branch in another tree. That 10" branch was 15' long and 30 feet up when it snapped and dropped on my dad. Part of the limb hit him in the head and shoulder.

He had complications for YEARS afterward and finally came down with Lou Garrets Disease as a result of the tramma. That disease eventually took his life.

TBAR

TBAR · Oct 13, 2004

Wedges don't always work.

TBAR

slowzuki · Oct 14, 2004

You are correct, wedges can only do so much and the worse shape the tree is in the more dangerous it is to force a tree where it doesn't want to go. The more wedges the more stress on the hinge. If your hinge is weak for any reason it will pop and you've got an unpredictable situation.

Ken

Libertine · Oct 14, 2004

Varmintmist:

When you pressure it and let off the tree rocks back. If it keeps moving then you are in for a tractor ride if its big enough. 

Yeah, I've thought about that. As Slowzuki posts it doesn't take much of a tree to out weigh a tractor. I've taken down a couple the way I described above. I don't want to cause the fall with the felling cut - only with the pressure from the tractor pulling on it. That's why I'm careful to enlarge the wedge cuts in small increments (so the pivot - uncut portion of the tree - is always just large enough to hold it and I have a chance to to crack it with the tractor force in the direction of fall wanted). But you're right, if I make the cuts too big so the thing falls on its own from the cut, rather than from the force of the tractor pulling it, I'm in deep doodoo. When I enlarge the cuts on the tree, I always keep tension on the tree from the line from the tractor in case I screw it up and cut too much. But I'm not really counting on the tractor to hold it. I'm counting on my ability to guage the cuts I am making on the tree so that it's just small enough that the tree remains standing, and, just large enough so the tree is weak enough for the tractor to pull it over. And that may very well be my mistake, although it has worked ok so far. Ummm. Also, as you have pointed out regarding hollow trees, this approach may be too risky for that. Of course, I wouldn't attempt this on a windy day.

JEH

PS The way I use to decide if this system will work on a particular tree is to attach my line/chain before any cuts and apply pressure. If I can move the tree at all (I have someone look at the tree from a perpendicular plane to direction of force from the tractor to check for movement). If the tree moves even a bit, without any cutting on the tree, then I figure the foot/pounds of force that can be applied by the tractor will suffice to pull it over in the correct direction IF (big if the more I think about it) I can cut the tree just right.

rockinmywaypa · Oct 14, 2004

Tbar It looks to me that you have two small opposing notches on each side of the tree with a large flat spot in the centre.If this is correct then it's little wonder you had to push it over, One notch that goes past centre sets up the tree's own weight toward the fall not balanced in the middle, then as Slowzuki has mentioned about hinges, you cut into the back side up to your strip that is going to hinge the tree into the location you want it to go. Of course this only applies if there is more of the tree's weight leaning toward the desired direction to begin with.

TBAR · Oct 14, 2004

( Tbar It looks to me that you have two small opposing notches on each side of the tree with a large flat spot in the centre. )

???.............None of the cuts are visable in the picture. The other two pics in that album are from the upper portion of the tree. I had one heck of a wedge cut out of the tree, three wedges in place and a cable pulling in the direction that I wanted it to fall.

TBAR

TBAR · Oct 14, 2004

( PS The way I use to decide if this system will work on a particular tree is to attach my line/chain before any cuts and apply pressure. If I can move the tree at all (I have someone look at the tree from a perpendicular plane to direction of force from the tractor to check for movement). If the tree moves even a bit, without any cutting on the tree, then I figure the foot/pounds of force that can be applied by the tractor will suffice to pull it over in the correct direction IF (big if the more I think about it) I can cut the tree just right. )

My son and I did this once with another large tree. It was leaning toward one of my sheds and I wanted it to fall in the opposite direction. My son climbed the tree and tied a 200' cable about 2/3 of the way up. We then attached the other end to the tractor and put tension on it. As I made my last cut the tree pinched the saw so I yelled at my son to apply more tension. When he released the brake he wasn't fast enough on the clutch and the tree started pulling him backwards. I bailed out from under the tree and watched him get dragged about four feet before he dumped the clutch and revved to full throttle. With the engine screaming and dirt flying from the back wheels he regained control and got the tree to fall in the correct direction.

I hate cutting trees............... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

TBAR