Low HP flail mower

[SI2305]

Hi all,

I know that there is a thread on flail mowers already and it is one of the longest one on the entire site. It appears that one becomes very loyal to their flail mower with just a few minutes of use. I am not trying to restart that very dense thread, but I was hoping for some insight as to a flail mower that I might be able to use myself.

I own a JD 2305 (thus, the handle) which has just 18 PTO HP. Given the ability of the 2305/LX4 to absolutely shred to pieces anything in its path, I have to wonder if it isn't powerful enough to run a flail mower. When I use the LX4 I cut tall grass, weeds, woody type weeds, vines, and as of lately, even some trees as I am trying to clear up my 3 acres of woods that were decimated by sustained winds of over 100 mph on May 8, 2009.

That particular storm was one of the most intense I have ever seen, and some locally have even termed it an "inland hurricane" as it actually had an eye wall, two episodes of storms blowing in opposite directions and a serenely calm 1/2 hour rest in between eye walls--just like in a hurricane. Of course it was not actually a hurricane, but the damage was absolutely intense and my woods seemed to take a direct hit. I estimate that I lost 20-25 large, mature trees. without those, the underbrush has shot up like a rocket and the whole area is almost impassible even if one is just trying to walk through. I have never seen vegetation so dense and on the rare occurrence when I have gotten a view over the underbrush, the area looks like Vietnam Jungle.

I have started to finally clear some of the brush with the LX4. Don't get me wrong, that machine is a beast in those woods and I have yet to see the vegetation that can stop it. Of course, I am not trying to take on hickory or oak trees, but sapling, especially those of fast-growing, soft-wood type are no match for the blades of my LX4. The problem I have is maneuverability. From rear wheel to bucket, I am operating a machine over 20 feet long. In those woods, with that kind of length, even the few trees left standing can make turning a real niucance. I also don't want to hit some piece of hidden vegetation that might take its revenge on me. Worst of all, I could slide and get stuck, being unable to maneuver my entire machine back out the same way it got in.

I would think that a flail mower would be the ideal piece of equipment for the area. It would be MUCH shorter and more maneuverable than the LX4. I would think that so long as I am going slow it would eat the vegetation like candy and my understanding is that it is not going to be harmed by those hidden objects (like a large piece of limestone I luckly missed while mowing--I literally mowed right past it and was thankful the blades did not make contact).

In addition to clearing brush/woods I need to maintain a couple thousand feet of fenceline, maintain trails, occasionally mow tall grass and generally maintain several acres of tall grassland. Is the flail mower the tool for me? I will try to summerize my thoughts as follows:

1) Is there a flail mower out there that I can safely operate with my JD2305 (18 PTO)?

2) Can any of these be offset/adjustable for mowing under dense brush?

3) Can a flail mower chew up vegetation like my LX4 does?

4) I have read a little about BEFCO flail mowers. They claim to have some flail mowers that operate in my HP range. Has anyone out there used BEFCO equipment and flails in particular? Are they a quality unit that I will not regret later?

5) Are there any other brands out there that are worth looking at that are reasonably priced?

6) As far as mowing width, I would not buy less that 48 cutting inches--That barely exceeds the width of my 2305 now. Ideally I think I would like a 60 cutting inch unit. Would that work with my HP range?

7) At present, when I am not clearing vegetation with my LX4 I am mowing our 3/4 acre lawn with a LandPride RFM 60. The LandPride is a really nice unit and I have never been anything but thrilled by its performance. It leaves a VERY nice finish and I can mow at racecar speeds when I have a nice long shot. I have no problem with either mower, but switching is a pain slightly aleviated withh a Pat's Easy Change. Can the same flail that roars through the wilderness leave a beautiful, clean, even cut that could be compared to a golf corse (in the front yard at least? The back is still recovering 3 years after the storm--long stroy).

8) Final question: Am I being at all realistic with all the info that I have thrown out there or is a flail really that good? Can it be both my rough cutter, my finish mower, mow quickly, and do it all with my 18 ponies?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and responding. I sure appreciate reading these posts and I hope to glean some knowledge, which is after all, what this internet community is about.

Thanks in advance

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

 

[knotweed]

I bought a used Befco 5 footer. I use it on a Yanmar 1610D with great success. I know for a 20 HP engine, I should not go over 4 feet but the tractor handles the 5 foot just fine.
In short weeds, I run in 1-3 and in tall stuff, 1-1. It also has an offset which sticks out the right side when you cut counterclockwise allowing you to run a foot of the mower over already cut ground causing no drag.
I think your tractor will handle it if you pay attention to speed and how much of the row you allow your mower to bite.

 

[leonz]

Hi all,

I know that there is a thread on flail mowers already and it is one of the longest one on the entire site. It appears that one becomes very loyal to their flail mower with just a few minutes of use. I am not trying to restart that very dense thread, but I was hoping for some insight as to a flail mower that I might be able to use myself.

I own a JD 2305 (thus, the handle) which has just 18 PTO HP. Given the ability of the 2305/LX4 to absolutely shred to pieces anything in its path, I have to wonder if it isn't powerful enough to run a flail mower. When I use the LX4 I cut tall grass, weeds, woody type weeds, vines, and as of lately, even some trees as I am trying to clear up my 3 acres of woods that were decimated by sustained winds of over 100 mph on May 8, 2009.

That particular storm was one of the most intense I have ever seen, and some locally have even termed it an "inland hurricane" as it actually had an eye wall, two episodes of storms blowing in opposite directions and a serenely calm 1/2 hour rest in between eye walls--just like in a hurricane. Of course it was not actually a hurricane, but the damage was absolutely intense and my woods seemed to take a direct hit. I estimate that I lost 20-25 large, mature trees. without those, the underbrush has shot up like a rocket and the whole area is almost impassible even if one is just trying to walk through. I have never seen vegetation so dense and on the rare occurrence when I have gotten a view over the underbrush, the area looks like Vietnam Jungle.

I have started to finally clear some of the brush with the LX4. Don't get me wrong, that machine is a beast in those woods and I have yet to see the vegetation that can stop it. Of course, I am not trying to take on hickory or oak trees, but sapling, especially those of fast-growing, soft-wood type are no match for the blades of my LX4. The problem I have is maneuverability. From rear wheel to bucket, I am operating a machine over 20 feet long. In those woods, with that kind of length, even the few trees left standing can make turning a real niucance. I also don't want to hit some piece of hidden vegetation that might take its revenge on me. Worst of all, I could slide and get stuck, being unable to maneuver my entire machine back out the same way it got in.

I would think that a flail mower would be the ideal piece of equipment for the area. It would be MUCH shorter and more maneuverable than the LX4. I would think that so long as I am going slow it would eat the vegetation like candy and my understanding is that it is not going to be harmed by those hidden objects (like a large piece of limestone I luckly missed while mowing--I literally mowed right past it and was thankful the blades did not make contact).

In addition to clearing brush/woods I need to maintain a couple thousand feet of fenceline, maintain trails, occasionally mow tall grass and generally maintain several acres of tall grassland. Is the flail mower the tool for me? I will try to summerize my thoughts as follows:

1) Is there a flail mower out there that I can safely operate with my JD2305
(18 PTO)

2) Can any of these be offset/adjustable for mowing under dense brush?

3) Can a flail mower chew up vegetation like my LX4 does?

4) I have read a little about BEFCO flail mowers. They claim to have some flail mowers that operate in my HP range. Has anyone out there used BEFCO equipment and flails in particular? Are they a quality unit that I will not regret later.

5) Are there any other brands out there that are worth looking at that are reasonably priced.

6) As far as mowing width, I would not buy less that 48 cutting inches--That barely exceeds the width of my 2305 now. Ideally I think I would like a 60 cutting inch unit. Would that work with my HP range.

7) At present, when I am not clearing vegetation with my LX4 I am mowing our 3/4 acre lawn with a LandPride RFM 60. The LandPride is a really nice unit and I have never been anything but thrilled by its performance. It leaves a VERY nice finish and I can mow at racecar speeds when I have a nice long shot. I have no problem with either mower, but switching is a pain slightly aleviated withh a Pat's Easy Change. Can the same flail that roars through the wilderness leave a beautiful, clean, even cut that could be compared to a golf corse (in the front yard at least. The back is still recovering 3 years after the storm--long stroy).

8) Final question: Am I being at all realistic with all the info that I have thrown out there or is a flail really that good. Can it be both my rough cutter, my finish mower, mow quickly, and do it all with my 18 ponies?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and responding. I sure appreciate reading these posts and I hope to glean some knowledge, which is after all, what this internet community is about.

Thanks in advance

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


About your mowing needs:


1. A 48 inch flail mower is a realistic option for your needs.

2. A few brands of PTO powered vineyard duty flail mowers
can be offset either hydraulicly or manually.

3. yes

4. I do not own BEFCO flailmower but they have been on the market for
a few years and i am sure any reputable dealer will help you by contacting
an owner for permission to speak to him or her.

5. There are many brands of P.T.O., powered flailmowers for sale.
a. If you have a mid point Power Take off you can purchase a flail mower to
mount on the front of your 2305. Trimax is just one manufacturer of front
mounted flailmowers with representatives in the Unites States.

6. A sixty inch unit is not something I would buy for dense vegetation with that low a horsepower as you will be consuming a great deal of power just operating the prime mover!!, NO,NO!!


7. A flailmower used in brush mowing with good sharp knives can and will
provide you with a beautiful lawn.


8. yes and yes and yes and yes.

You have to decide how much you can afford and which type of knive you want to use and then look for the right 48 inch flail mower.

A flail mower with two or three rows of kinves is a very good mower for brush
and good turf.



The side slicers Y blades are offered in hardened and standard strength steels. The scoop knives are ment for turf and can be used for brush.


There are a great number of small width Vineyard specific flailmowers available for sale and that is where I suggest that you start.

If you want a flail mower you can buy one with a 48 inch cut with no problems other than waiting for it to come if it is not in inventory.

Pleas PM me if you have more questions



_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[knotweed]

I also have a bush hog rotary which I quit using because of the stuff it throws. I also found an inexpensive source for blades. I use the Y blades (which are reversible) and it really shreads a lot of stuff.

 

[SI2305]

Leonz, Knotweed,

Thanks for your prompt reply. Leonz, thanks especially for addressing my specific concerns so richly. This really helps to formulate an idea as to what type of flail I might eventually (wife understanding) buy.

About BEFCO,

I poured over threads yesterday, and they do not appear to be the fly-by-night operation I feared. But they do claim to offer a60 inch in my range. They even claim a 72" in my range, but this must only work when the tractor move at a snail's pace. Are they overselling their products? I would not get a 72" RFM even though it was rated for my tractor. Seems like a 60" might work if I go slow, which I do in tall grass anyway, and in the jungle that is my woods, I MUST move at a snail's pace lest I go into a ravine or smack a hidden log. Would a 60" work on those circumstances? Could I still race over the Lawn? Am I pipe dreaming? Is BEFCO pipe dreaming?

Again, thanks for your advice,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

 

[greg_g]

The ratings are often based upon what a tractor will lift. Whether or not it will actually cut is a different matter. You might be able to get by with a 5 footer - if you were only trimming grass on a fairway. Anything heavier than that, you'll go to sleep behind the wheel.

Tractordata.com lists your 2305 width at just under 45 inches. When selecting a mower, the idea is to select a swath that will encompass the wheel tracks. So unless the mower offset won't accomplish that, 18 hp pretty much keeps you in 48 inch territory

//greg//

 

[SI2305]

greg-g,

Though I had not everr found difinitive evidence, I have come to suspect much of what you just stated. Rear weight makes a huge difference and is probably more important that HP alone. Actually, my personal view on the HP issue is that is not like a light switch--19hp it works, 18 it fails--but more like a reccomended minimum--you will have to mow awfully slow if you have less than x HP but you can do it if you want. Technically, my 2305 is rated for an LX5, but I am sure that I will pay for that with it bogging down even in minor mowing conditions as opposed to the storm I can unleash with my LX4.

The other issue I have is wheel overlap. I want to make sure that I am at least mowing my tracks. Now, given that the flail mower mows by sweeping in the reverse direction of the tractor direction, those tracks probably get mowed well.

However, I would also like to use some degree of offset to get under hedgerows--I have well over 1000 feet of hedgerows--and I don't see how I can do this with 48 inches.

Is there a 54 inch model out there? It might be just enough to get me under the hedgerows and not overburded the 2305. Further, the weight issue might be within tolerences also. I would think that the LX4 would out weigh any flail mower I am likely to use as it is both heavy and sticks WAY out the back, a flail mower would not do this.

My last question (I have babbled too much already): I have never understood how a 2305 can use a PTO tiller in rock-hard clay soil (48" wide), but have problems with a 60" flail mower that is cutting through grass. The LX4 actually has the greatest "trouble" with fresh green, long grass, woody or dry materials simply disapear before its blades. If these two implements can operate so well with so much reserve power, why can't it run a 60" flail mower (I already run a 60" finish mower). A flail mower is essentially much like a tiller (converts parrallel rotation to perpendicular rotation). Obviously, I don't run my 2305 at rocket speeds when clearing out my woods (actually, I crawl as slow as possible as I don't always know what I am getting into). Similarly, when mowing through tall grass, I don't just blindly plow across the prarie, but rather I alter my speed based on conditions.

Don't the same conditions I have listed above still apply to a possible 60" flail mower where I mow faster across a lawn and slow down going across an open field?

Sorry for the rant, but I always appreciate the input.

Thanks,

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

 

[leonz]

greg-g,

Though I had not everr found difinitive evidence, I have come to suspect much of what you just stated. Rear weight makes a huge difference and is probably more important that HP alone. Actually, my personal view on the HP issue is that is not like a light switch--19hp it works, 18 it fails--but more like a reccomended minimum--you will have to mow awfully slow if you have less than x HP but you can do it if you want. Technically, my 2305 is rated for an LX5, but I am sure that I will pay for that with it bogging down even in minor mowing conditions as opposed to the storm I can unleash with my LX4.

The other issue I have is wheel overlap. I want to make sure that I am at least mowing my tracks. Now, given that the flail mower mows by sweeping in the reverse direction of the tractor direction, those tracks probably get mowed well.

However, I would also like to use some degree of offset to get under hedgerows--I have well over 1000 feet of hedgerows--and I don't see how I can do this with 48 inches.

Is there a 54 inch model out there? It might be just enough to get me under the hedgerows and not overburded the 2305. Further, the weight issue might be within tolerences also. I would think that the LX4 would out weigh any flail mower I am likely to use as it is both heavy and sticks WAY out the back, a flail mower would not do this.

My last question (I have babbled too much already): I have never understood how a 2305 can use a PTO tiller in rock-hard clay soil (48" wide), but have problems with a 60" flail mower that is cutting through grass. The LX4 actually has the greatest "trouble" with fresh green, long grass, woody or dry materials simply disapear before its blades. If these two implements can operate so well with so much reserve power, why can't it run a 60" flail mower (I already run a 60" finish mower). A flail mower is essentially much like a tiller (converts parrallel rotation to perpendicular rotation). Obviously, I don't run my 2305 at rocket speeds when clearing out my woods (actually, I crawl as slow as possible as I don't always know what I am getting into). Similarly, when mowing through tall grass, I don't just blindly plow across the prarie, but rather I alter my speed based on conditions.

Don't the same conditions I have listed above still apply to a possible 60" flail mower where I mow faster across a lawn and slow down going across an open field?

Sorry for the rant, but I always appreciate the input.

Thanks,

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

_________________________________________________________________



As Greg has so kindly mentioned you are
limited by your tractors actual lifting ability to
deal with an integral implement and provide proper
balance.

Your tiller operates at a much slower rotating speed
in the dirt you are working through with its transmission
of rotary power through its gear box and chain drive and
sprockets.

You are always limited by the mass of brush or
turf your mower encounters due to the water
in the fibers of the grass of growing brush.


If the 2305 model you have has a
Mid-Mount Power Take off you can
install a front mounted trimax flailmower
and avoid the touchy issue of blance and rear
lifting weight limitations for your three point hitch.


Many manufacturers offer front mounted
flailmowers with the proper guarding required for
european safety standards which are much more
stringent than our agricultural mower safety
standards.


A front mounted flailmower will allow you to use
the mid mount Power Take Off of your tractor
effectively for mowing but you are limited by
the density of the brush and or turf.

The front mount mower is simply lifted a short
distance in front of the prime mover with a single acting
cylinder (assuming your 2305 has one equipped with
the mid mount Power Take Off option.



There is Trimax Mower Dealer in Buffalo, New York also.

The Vrisimo folks offer a 46 inch cutting width flailmower
that can be manually shifted left or right to suit mowing
conditions to overlap the rear tires.

 

[SI2305]

Sorry, did not mean to rant.

I was just thinking that the rotary cutter was likely heavier and positioned further back than a flail mower would. I absolutely understand about the importance of easing through dense vegetation, that is exactly what I do now.

Are flail mowers that much heavier than rotary cutters? My LX4 weighs over 400 pounds and much of that weight is located far from the tractor's center of gravity.

A front mounted mower sounds intriguing indeed--sort of a snowblower for brush. Unfortunately, I would have to take off my loader which is invaluable as I move material around in the woods now. Some of the downed limbs/trunks can be positioned so that I can get a better shot than as it fell. I think that I would want to leave the bucket in place, maybe even add teeth to it to enhance its ability to get under debris and drag it if necessary.

I keep coming back to the BEFCO H-40 series that comes in a 60 inch model and claims to be rated from 15-40 HP. The weight is comperable to my LX4 and I believe less than my RFM-60. Better yet, its weight would be located closer to the tractor so the tractor would have a good mechanical advantage. Is this an even remotely reasonable option, knowing that I will have to slow down for dense vegetation, just as I do now? Thank you for all the help you are offering, this site is the only source of experienced, practical information that I have on the subject as flail mowers are reletively rare pieces of equipment.

thanks as always,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

 

[aczlan]

I dont have a flail, but I run a 60" bush hog on a similar size tractor (Kubota B7500, 21/16HP). When mowing heavy grass (like in a wet spot or a 3' tall hayfield) you will have to crawl. When mowing dry weeds and other such stemmy stuff, you will be fine.
We also run a 60" tiller with that tractor and it handles it just about the same as the bush hog, but the weight distribution is better.

Aaron Z

 

[leonz]

Sorry, did not mean to rant.

I was just thinking that the rotary cutter was likely heavier and positioned further back than a flail mower would. I absolutely understand about the importance of easing through dense vegetation, that is exactly what I do now.

Are flail mowers that much heavier than rotary cutters? My LX4 weighs over 400 pounds and much of that weight is located far from the tractor's center of gravity.

A front mounted mower sounds intriguing indeed--sort of a snowblower for brush. Unfortunately, I would have to take off my loader which is invaluable as I move material around in the woods now. Some of the downed limbs/trunks can be positioned so that I can get a better shot than as it fell. I think that I would want to leave the bucket in place, maybe even add teeth to it to enhance its ability to get under debris and drag it if necessary.

I keep coming back to the BEFCO H-40 series that comes in a 60 inch model and claims to be rated from 15-40 HP. The weight is comperable to my LX4 and I believe less than my RFM-60. Better yet, its weight would be located closer to the tractor so the tractor would have a good mechanical advantage. Is this an even remotely reasonable option, knowing that I will have to slow down for dense vegetation, just as I do now? Thank you for all the help you are offering, this site is the only source of experienced, practical information that I have on the subject as flail mowers are reletively rare pieces of equipment.

thanks as always,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

_________________________________________________________________




The arc of travel for lifting any flailmower is always closer to the tractor as the flail mowers rotor is closer to the integral hitch.

The issue for you is power loss/power needed to operate the transmission and steering system and what ever is left is available for the mounted implement to allow for "efficient" use of the mower- if you have plenty of time to mow then its not an issue and crawling allows you to mow and recut effectively and efficiently, thats where a fender mounted radio comes in nicely to relieve some of the boredom.

The flail mowers belt drive and its ability to transmit power to the flail mower rotor are your main concerns as it will be directly affected by the density of the brush encountered by the flail mowers rotor at speed.


I have a flywheel clutch/Hilliard go cart clutch on my belt drive so I am able to wind the 16 horse power B+S I/C engine up to 3000 rpm+ and have plenty of power when I mow brush at a slow tractor speed and mow quickly on good turf.


Foremost your pocket book is going to be your guide with this decision.

But saying that my 48 inch flailmower is 32 years and still works great and you will have the same efficiency, power and life span with a smaller flail mower as long as you take care of it. I would chat with Ken Sweet as he is forum sponsor and spend your money at his firm.

 

[SI2305]

Leonz,

You have been very patient and informative for me and I think you just cleared up a source of my misunderstanding.

1) Are you indicating that the flail mower has a considerable rear reach as it lowers into the mowing position? If so, how might this compare to my LX4, the rear wheel of which rests 6' from the link arms?

2) My LX4 is just about 400#. BEFCO 60" is similar in weight. My RFM is about 575#. At present, as long as I have my loader attached, I don't have a balance issue, though this weekend I did load a huge section of tree trunk (maybe 20" diameter, 2'long) for balast.
Under these circumstances, would there be any problem with weight/balance?

3) You mentioned drive belts. Are drive belts a significant source of power loss from stretching/slipping? If so, I now understand why a flail mower would use so much more power to run. I was basing my assumptions on attachments that are powered directly by the drive shaft or in the case of my RFM, don't run on intense vegetation in the first place.

4) If #3 is in fact accurate, is BEFCO overselling its products by advertising 60" and 72" flail mowers to be powered by as little as 15 PTO HP? Perhaps this is meant not for jungle clearing as I intend, but for turf mowing instead.

5) Unfortunately, if I have understood correctly, I have some serious thinking to do. I was hoping for a do-it-all mower and retain my 60" cutting swath. Now I would have to decide if I want to sacrifice 12" of cutting width and render my other two cutters irrelevent, add a 60 inch flail but still have to change cutters based on the situation, or just stay with the cutters I have at present

Whatever the decision it is I make, you have provided me with some valuable insight. Thanks for your gift of information.

sincerely,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

 

[greg_g]

Flails typically weigh more per cutting inch than do rotary cutters. That fact alone cancels out any advantage gained by how one hangs off the three point hitch. And yes, there are 54" flails out there. But just like any other implement that's of an in-between size, production is lower. Lower production almost always equates to higher price (per cutting inch).

Is there any chance that there's an equipment rental outlet within reasonable distance? The ideal option would be to rent a five footer and just see whether or not your 18hp can handle it.

//greg//

 

[leonz]

Leonz,

You have been very patient and informative for me and I think you just cleared up a source of my misunderstanding.

1) Are you indicating that the flail mower has a considerable rear reach as it lowers into the mowing position? If so, how might this compare to my LX4, the rear wheel of which rests 6' from the link arms?

2) My LX4 is just about 400#. BEFCO 60" is similar in weight. My RFM is about 575#. At present, as long as I have my loader attached, I don't have a balance issue, though this weekend I did load a huge section of tree trunk (maybe 20" diameter, 2'long) for balast.
Under these circumstances, would there be any problem with weight/balance?

3) You mentioned drive belts. Are drive belts a significant source of power loss from stretching/slipping? If so, I now understand why a flail mower would use so much more power to run. I was basing my assumptions on attachments that are powered directly by the drive shaft or in the case of my RFM, don't run on intense vegetation in the first place.

4) If #3 is in fact accurate, is BEFCO overselling its products by advertising 60" and 72" flail mowers to be powered by as little as 15 PTO HP? Perhaps this is meant not for jungle clearing as I intend, but for turf mowing instead.

5) Unfortunately, if I have understood correctly, I have some serious thinking to do. I was hoping for a do-it-all mower and retain my 60" cutting swath. Now I would have to decide if I want to sacrifice 12" of cutting width and render my other two cutters irrelevent, add a 60 inch flail but still have to change cutters based on the situation, or just stay with the cutters I have at present

Whatever the decision it is I make, you have provided me with some valuable insight. Thanks for your gift of information.

sincerely,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

_________________________________________________________________

Item one: the flail mower which is attached integrally to its power is shorter in total length(unless one owns a towed flail mower that is powered by an engine or a Power Take Off Shaft from the tractor.

Item two: Its always good business to have a bit of weight up front to counter the effects of an integrally mounted implement used for mowing as you have a lot of mass there when it is raised.

Item three: power loss is a given when transmission of power occurs unless a flywheel is used to balance the demand of a powered implement like a conventional hay baler.

The use of a V belt drive system for many powered implements including rototillers like the large Northwest tiller which tills to an actual 14 inch depth is very efficient with regard to speed reduction and higher power transmission(energy available for work) and it is very common to use belts as they are an excellent way to absorb shock loads from impacts and it reduces the strain on all driven components. (A lot of rear finish mowers use V belts believe it or not
to save money in building them)


The 540 R.P.M., produced by you tractor at the engine speed required for the rear Power Take Off is transferred through a one to one right angle gear box (exactly like your rototiller) then the power is transferred to the cross shaft to the smaller drive pulley which operates at a much higher speed. The V belt or belts transmit this power to a grooved pulley which is directly attached to the Flail Mower Rotor which uses flat tensioning pulley which is spring loaded(like mine) or a manually adjusted belt tensioning snubber pulley arrangement.

The spring tensioner and flywheel clutch is the best of both worlds as the power transmitted is delivered at its maximum efficiency at all times until the V belt(s) fail from age or overload(burn up).

The flailmower rotor(s) may be very small (compared to a flail type finish mower (like mine with a large drum type rotor) as it will have longer side slicers or scoop knives or hammers to make up the difference in distance
to the mowing height desired which is something some manufacturers do to save money on constructing this type of implement. A flail type finish mower may have staggered knives/weldments or 2, or 4 rows of side slicers to mow turf and brush.

item four: it was probably tested using a dynamometer. good turf or old crappy turf requires less power to make it look good when mowing as it has less green matter/waterthan thick brush(thats the nice thing about mowing after winter kill as there is little to no moisture).


Item five: lots of the members use the flail mower for every thing and set their other mowers aside or sell them. Some keep their rotary cutters simply to deal with saplings that may have escaped the last mowing.

The use of a five footer will be problematic as your vegetation is dense and may require frequent mowing to manage it.

You may have to reduce your mowing width by sacrificing a foot of width to avoid overloading the tractor in dense brush so the purchase of a 60 inch flailmower is a negative in this respect UNLESS you plant and replant quick growwing grasses in the paths with an overseeder to guarantee germination.

The other issue is time as mowing slowly with a smaller flailmower will take longer but you will be able to knock it down to the sod to aid in controlling invasives which will flourish in the sunlight.


I would be worth the time to chat with a logger that does land clearing as it may be more beneficila for you to hire him and his land clearing feller buncher and his land clearing mower to handle the paths down to the sod and then use 48 inch flail to save your self a lot of time and effort and wear on the prime mover you own.

 

[aczlan]

I would be worth the time to chat with a logger that does land clearing as it may be more beneficila for you to hire him and his land clearing feller buncher and his land clearing mower to handle the paths down to the sod and then use 48 inch flail to save your self a lot of time and effort and wear on the prime mover you own.

Really Leonz? He said:

However, I would also like to use some degree of offset to get under hedgerows--I have well over 1000 feet of hedgerows--and I don't see how I can do this with 48 inches.
Is there a 54 inch model out there? It might be just enough to get me under the hedgerows and not overburded the 2305. Further, the weight issue might be within tolerences also. I would think that the LX4 would out weigh any flail mower I am likely to use as it is both heavy and sticks WAY out the back, a flail mower would not do this.

A logger with a feller buncher wont touch a hedgerow in most cases (not enough wood to make it worthwhile) and it sounds like he just wants to mow along the hedgerow without getting beat up by the branches.

IMO, it should be possible, but it may be slow in heavy stuff and you may need to not take a full pass when mowing.

Aaron Z

 

[SI2305]

Leonz,

You have given me quite an education in a short time. Thanks very much. At the time that I was considering the 60", believe me that when I was thinking of going over my jungle, slow progress was a given regardless of the implement simply because of reduced visibility. I could not tell if I was about to hit a large horizontile trunk, a rock, go over a ravine (I have lots of those) or who knows what.

In my field, I go at a moderate pace, even with the LX4 simply because of the roughness of the terrain. I am well adaped to adjusting my speed to the ground condidtions. You mentioned water mass and I can attest that vibrant green grass is the hardest for the LX4. I am about to do a late spring/early summer mow of my field with my RFM. Given that it is belt driven and 60" it will give me a good idea as to just how fast the combination of the two will work, might even influence my thoughts on a flail width (either larger or smaller). As I only mow my "field" (maybe 5 acres, hard to tell as it is shrinking due to it being slowly converted to orchard/fruit patch/garden bed--raised with the logs downed from the storm) twice a year at most, time is not a major consideration. I might only mow it once in the late spring (June) and once in fall (October). The fall mowing has a lot of dry grass/debris and thin woody stems. This seems like ideal material for a flail mower to chew through.

I do, however, maintain the fence/brush row on a regular basis. I have trail that runs parallel to the brush line so being able to mow the vegetation that grows under our autum olives is a huge bonus. This is one of the reason I lean towards the 60" model is so that I can get as much reach into those tight spots as possible. Under those conditions, I would be lucky to engage 1/3 the actual width, but every extra inch is a win for me. Trust me, those are tough to mow and I have sent my LX4 angling in and out to do roughly the same task, only to take hours to do it and missing areas in the process. I also mow next to a pond and I am in no mood to put my tractor into the drink any time soon, so again, any extra inch is a major bonus.

Do you have a preference as to the types of blades? Y blades, "flat" blades or hammers? Just curious which makes the best overall blade type. I lean towards a flat or scoop blade as it is hard for me to imagine a Y blade leaving a manicured look on a lawn, but I have been wrong before.

I can assure you that I never mow without proper balast as I indicated in my previous post. I have found that the FEL is great not only for balast, but I can drop it down low and actually lower my center of gravity--always a plus.

Overall, my interest in flail mowers (a relatively esoteric implement) stemmed from my grandfather who used his to clear his ditchbanks (he was a farmer). When he died, his flail mower was offered to me but I had to decline as his utility tractor and mine were so hugely different in size and capability. Little did I know (we lived 800 miles apart, so I did not see his day-to-day operations) that his flail mower was a self powered one that he towed behind his four wheeler. Hit head to wall time!

Also, a logger is pretty much out of the question. Part is because of the cost of having a crew come through and part is because I consider this to be my responsibility on my land. I also see this as being a long term project and not someting to be taken lightly or expect to be done overnight.

I think I have some valuable information to consider now, but thanks for helping me understand the nuances and qualities of how flail mowers work and don't work. I will keep you posted on any aquisitions I make any time soon.

Thanks for your insigjht and wisdom,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

 

[sandman2234]

Having owned a small compact tractor and lived with hp deficiency, and.later owning two flails, each completely different from the other. JD25a does grass well, with light cutters shaped like flatnosed scoops. The other is a 4fter that has hammer blades that weigh about five times what the others weigh. I think the jd25a could use less hp than the 65 i pull it with, but the 4fter is really mounted on too small a tractor at 90hp(Ford7710). The 4fter with take out most anything that gets in it's path and can be raised to be dropped on a tree from the top. It doesn't even slow down till it gets into about five inch trunks. Just mentioned this to say all flair mowers are not created equal.
If you have fab skills, I would find a used mower in 4 or 5 foot and move the offset to the amount you want/need. You will be able to afford to experiment a little with knives with the money you saved. Belts are going to be a problem if you start clearing land. My 4fter is hydraulic drive, so that helps on my end.
Good luck,David from jjax

 

[SI2305]

aczlan,

Your statement about my hedgerow was exactly correct and a major reason for looking at the 60" model. The grass in the actuall trail is very manageable but the overhang from the hedge does tend to beat me in the face if I am not careful. I would love to offset the mower so that I could just get under and clear out vines (Japanese honeysuckle, despite its beautiful smell, is one of the worst invasives in the area. It seems to specialize in border zones where it can climb up another plant and still get its sunlight easily. To boot, it is an evergreen and even grows slowly in winter! I have seen acres subdued by this pest and it will take an autum olive branch that had been minding its own business and so overloads it that the branch becomes an obstacle directly in my path. I try to kill/subdue/knock back/intimidate these pernicious vines any way possible and If I can get 2' of a flail mower gowing where no other mower will go, then I consider this a sucess.

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

 

[leonz]

Leonz,

You have given me quite an education in a short time. Thanks very much. At the time that I was considering the 60", believe me that when I was thinking of going over my jungle, slow progress was a given regardless of the implement simply because of reduced visibility. I could not tell if I was about to hit a large horizontile trunk, a rock, go over a ravine (I have lots of those) or who knows what.

In my field, I go at a moderate pace, even with the LX4 simply because of the roughness of the terrain. I am well adaped to adjusting my speed to the ground condidtions. You mentioned water mass and I can attest that vibrant green grass is the hardest for the LX4. I am about to do a late spring/early summer mow of my field with my RFM. Given that it is belt driven and 60" it will give me a good idea as to just how fast the combination of the two will work, might even influence my thoughts on a flail width (either larger or smaller). As I only mow my "field" (maybe 5 acres, hard to tell as it is shrinking due to it being slowly converted to orchard/fruit patch/garden bed--raised with the logs downed from the storm) twice a year at most, time is not a major consideration. I might only mow it once in the late spring (June) and once in fall (October). The fall mowing has a lot of dry grass/debris and thin woody stems. This seems like ideal material for a flail mower to chew through.

I do, however, maintain the fence/brush row on a regular basis. I have trail that runs parallel to the brush line so being able to mow the vegetation that grows under our autum olives is a huge bonus. This is one of the reason I lean towards the 60" model is so that I can get as much reach into those tight spots as possible. Under those conditions, I would be lucky to engage 1/3 the actual width, but every extra inch is a win for me. Trust me, those are tough to mow and I have sent my LX4 angling in and out to do roughly the same task, only to take hours to do it and missing areas in the process. I also mow next to a pond and I am in no mood to put my tractor into the drink any time soon, so again, any extra inch is a major bonus.

Do you have a preference as to the types of blades? Y blades, "flat" blades or hammers? Just curious which makes the best overall blade type. I lean towards a flat or scoop blade as it is hard for me to imagine a Y blade leaving a manicured look on a lawn, but I have been wrong before.

I can assure you that I never mow without proper balast as I indicated in my previous post. I have found that the FEL is great not only for balast, but I can drop it down low and actually lower my center of gravity--always a plus.

Overall, my interest in flail mowers (a relatively esoteric implement) stemmed from my grandfather who used his to clear his ditchbanks (he was a farmer). When he died, his flail mower was offered to me but I had to decline as his utility tractor and mine were so hugely different in size and capability. Little did I know (we lived 800 miles apart, so I did not see his day-to-day operations) that his flail mower was a self powered one that he towed behind his four wheeler. Hit head to wall time!

Also, a logger is pretty much out of the question. Part is because of the cost of having a crew come through and part is because I consider this to be my responsibility on my land. I also see this as being a long term project and not someting to be taken lightly or expect to be done overnight.

I think I have some valuable information to consider now, but thanks for helping me understand the nuances and qualities of how flail mowers work and don't work. I will keep you posted on any aquisitions I make any time soon.

Thanks for your insight and wisdom,

SI2305

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs

Thanks

1. I would bet your grandfather had either a Mott or Mathews motorised flailmower with the long side slicers

2. A typical flail type finish mower has 3 or 4 rows of side slicers for mowing
lawn and making it look beautiful and the rear roller is plus.


3. The duck bill or scoop knives which can have a hardened thick steel casting
for a scoop (several Italian flail mowers use them) knive which is ideal for
brush and also gives a nice finish for lawns ans ditches.


I like the side slicers simply as they are easy to manage and easy to obtain and grinding them is easy with a wet well knive/scizzors grinder.


4. you just might find a used 46 inch Vrisimo flail mower or other narrow width
for sale as the Vrisimo mowers and others come up for sale in trades or at an
auction.


I would spend some time at the auction time web site, the tractor house web site and or craigs list and look for a small used PTO powered flailmower.

The thing is a used flailmower will have value for you and if your not happy with it you can always sell it too, and you will not have to wait long for a buyer.

 

[SI2305]

Leonz,

Interesting point, might a flail mower be one of the few pieces of equipment that retain or even gain value?

I kinda like the idea of hammers just for smashing debris, but this might be asking for too much.

Do the side cutters leave a combed or striped look? I just can't get over what that will look like on my lawn.

Thanks as always,

JD 2305
200CX, LX4, 60" Grader blade, 60" LandPride finish mower that replaced our old lawn mower, middlebuster, home made grass rake for long field grass collection, and now a specialized trailer to move heavy logs