Loading issues on Dump Trailer

[sandman2234]

From the picture they are biasing to the front, if they centered the load in the trailer you should be about right for tongue weight.

It's common at my quarry for them to automatically bias to the front, guess they'd rather have someone with too much tongue weight then not enough.

If they "center the load" it qill pull like crap and pretty much be dangerous. Trailers are built to have 60% or more loaded to the front.
They are doing it right, loading nose heavy. The issue is, the original poster doesn't like his back bumper dragging the pavement when loaded close to his trucks maximum capacity. He wants more of the weight carried by the trailer which easily becomes dangerous.
I said I was going to stop posting on this thread, but I have been where he is, and put one out of control truck and trailer in the ditch. The weight ticket showed everything legal and within my load limits according to the State trooper who looked it over. It was just loaded rear heavy.
David from jax

 

[TMGT]

If they "center the load" it qill pull like crap and pretty much be dangerous. Trailers are built to have 60% or more loaded to the front.
They are doing it right, loading nose heavy. The issue is, the original poster doesn't like his back bumper dragging the pavement when loaded close to his trucks maximum capacity. He wants more of the weight carried by the trailer which easily becomes dangerous.
I said I was going to stop posting on this thread, but I have been where he is, and put one out of control truck and trailer in the ditch. The weight ticket showed everything legal and within my load limits according to the State trooper who looked it over. It was just loaded rear heavy.
David from jax

The axles are set back from center, if they loaded the bed centered it will still provide a forward bias compared to the axles. Loading front heavy on a trailer that has axles set back will put excessive load on the tongue, especially for lighter duty tow vehicles with less margin for error.

Most good dump trailers will have the axles set back enough that loading the bed centered will provide adequate tongue weight for safe towing. His appears to have proper axle placement.

 

[4570Man]

The axles are set back from center, if they loaded the bed centered it will still provide a forward bias compared to the axles. Loading front heavy on a trailer that has axles set back will put excessive load on the tongue, especially for lighter duty tow vehicles with less margin for error.

Most good dump trailers will have the axles set back enough that loading the bed centered will provide adequate tongue weight for safe towing. His appears to have proper axle placement.

The axels are so far back on my dump trailer even if you only loaded the back half of the bed I don’t think you could possibly make it fishtail. Also it’s pretty heavy on the hitch empty. It weighs 4600 pounds and has 3660 on the axels.

 

[TMGT]

The axels are so far back on my dump trailer even if you only loaded the back half of the bed I don’t think you could possibly make it fishtail. Also it’s pretty heavy on the hitch empty. It weighs 4600 pounds and has 3660 on the axels. View attachment 714385

Is that a 16ft? I see a lot of those with the axles set a little further back then the shorter ones. Mines a 16ft but has a long tongue compared to most dump trailers which help a lot with dealing with extra tongue weight.

 

[s219]

If they "center the load" it qill pull like crap and pretty much be dangerous. Trailers are built to have 60% or more loaded to the front.
They are doing it right, loading nose heavy. The issue is, the original poster doesn't like his back bumper dragging the pavement when loaded close to his trucks maximum capacity. He wants more of the weight carried by the trailer which easily becomes dangerous.
I said I was going to stop posting on this thread, but I have been where he is, and put one out of control truck and trailer in the ditch. The weight ticket showed everything legal and within my load limits according to the State trooper who looked it over. It was just loaded rear heavy.
David from jax

The way the trailer's geometry is setup, because the center of the bed is ahead of the center of the axles, you are guaranteed a front bias if you load the bed evenly. If they could do that everything would be fine. But when they load the bed with a front bias on top of the front bias of the trailer geometry, it's too much tongue weight.

To me this is simple, you can see that in the basic physics of the trailer layout and I could verify it with the scale data. This should not be complicated to understand.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Agree. But some are still living in the past, and giving advice like it's the 80's or 90's. Maybe they just aren't familiar with the advancements of trucks over the last two decades

Like the computer chips that are keeping them off the roads?

 

[bdhsfz6]

The axles on these dump trailers are set further to the rear to allow for a greater dump angle. Small capacity dump trailers have axles that are more centered but they carry the load higher off the ground.

 

[panamaguy]

Put a couple of empty 55 gallon drums standing up in the front when you go and this will force the operator to load further back. Pull them out when you need the full size trailer for other loads

 

[JWR]

Your local yards have hack loader operators who Don't Care. You buy the product and you tell
them how it should be loaded. And, you are pushing your luck with a half ton with that kind of weight. Trailer weight and product are over you recommended payload.

3 tons plus the trailer is not over specs for a typical 1/2 ton pickup.

 

[kubota shifty]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

Have you thought about a weight distribution hitch (Reese is good)? I used one when I had a light duty F250 pulling a heavy horse trailer. I plan to use one with my heavy duty '96 F250 with a heavy trailer. I also had extra shocks installed in the back to prevent the back of the truck from dropping too much. Of course, distributing the load correctly is needed as everyone says.

 

[msch2112]

Can you tilt loaded trailer back to push part of load to rear?

 

[JsJs]

What you want is a cheap fast solution that does the trick. Lay an empty 55 gal drum, metal or plastic on its side and tie it to the front so it does not slide out while dumping. Then let the incompetent loader guy dump right on top of it if he likes. That will displace a lot of weight.

 

[Dmacleo]

I'd rather they load few feet towards front in error than few feet towards back on purpose.
I haul a 7x14 cam brand dual cylinder on 2011 siverado 2500HD often. have handled 7.75 tons safely.
had 3 tons of sand center loaded that shifted backwards 3 feet on me due to steep hills with bumps.
you do not want that to happen. trust me.

 

[Gord Baker]

Obviously loaded too far forward. Tell the Operators first then stand by the trailer and see that they comply. What is the Gross weight with that load? Looks too much for your truck to me.

 

[huskerz]

I have a similar trailer size 6x12 but bed sits over the tires. So bed sits higher off the ground and tires underneath it are closer together than yours.. Only 2.5 tons of payload is what it says on the axles. I always tell them 2 tons but have got 3.2 before over the scale. Not good but I went very slow. I alway even out the load by hand before leaving. Quarry gets upset if you don't wear hard hat when you get outside of vehicle too. If worried about tongue weight when loading, you could put your jack down to avoid damage to your 1/2 ton truck. BTW my next truck will be at least a 3/4 ton.

 

[nikerret]

The quarries* in my area will not allow you back, if you get out of your truck. To those saying get out and give directions, make sure this isn’t going to get you banned. Everything is done by CB.

Where I load with a 12’ trailer, it’s tough because the bucket is that wide (on a lot of loaders used). When I get 5 tons, it’s just over half a bucket, on the loaders.

To load a small trailer, they have to hit it with the corner of the bucket. This is part of the reason I got a 16’.
Most operators will bias the front of the box because that is where dump trucks want loaded and on trailers too much tongue weight is safer than letting the “tail wag the dog”.

I have had a few loads loaded too front heavy. Lifting it to shift the load is not going to work, you’ll just end up with the whole load at the back. I keep a shovel in the toolbox and will move what I have to, to drive safely.

To the OP, how are you communicating what commodity you want, to the loader operator? When you do this, can you talk to them about how they load you?


*I generally go to the quarries where they are actively using explosives and crushing rock. Unless I absolutely have to, I avoid the places that sell to the general public.

 

[ScottK]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

Bring a shovel. A few minutes shifting the load is worth it.

 

[eightytwenty]

Ask the loader operator (or the scale operator if they radio the loader) to have them center the load in the bed and ignore where the axels are. Your axles are behind center for a reason - for forward bias to eliminate wagging. The engineers that designed the trailer knew what they were doing. The axels will take 90% of the weight of the rig+load. That is why you have two of them and why they are where they are.

Don't "block" the forward space, that will just make a bad load top heavy when they bury your block, which is worse.

Thank you for using brakes and a WD hitch - also get the sway friction bar to help control any wagging that does occur - just in case a passing semi pushes the trailer into a sway, even the slightest rocking when the towed weight is heavier than the pull vehicle - this can catch you in a bad way if you're not paying attention. That said, a properly loaded trailer will never sway, and no more than 10-12% of the GROSS trailer weight should be on the tongue. 9000# == 900-1000# on the tongue. If you are worried, get a $100 tongue scale and measure it. If they load wrong, get out your shovel or landscape rake to pull it back until it looks right (or measures right).

I've pulled well over my vehicle rating many times - but everything was balanced and the mileage short, speed low, grades minimal. No need for a 3/4 or 1 ton truck for these short hauls if the equipment is setup right and its loaded right. Use your head, you'll be responsible if something goes wrong.

I just did a 1,700 mile trip with a 4800# gross = auto trailer + equipment behind a SUV with a 5000# rating, Had 490# on the tongue (measured) and everything was well balanced, brakes, WD, sway.. easy as apple pie. A few troopers took interest given two machines on the deck, none said a word (at rest stops). It was a one way trip, and the big truck pulled the 14k trailer... not something I liked [to do with the SUV], but it worked and never felt unstable or out of control. Space is your friend.

 

[CobyRupert]

Bring a shovel. A few minutes shifting the load is worth it.

Exactly. OP says he’s only 300 lbs too heavy on the tongue. It depends on geometry of trailer axles and tongue, but every pound shifted from front and added to back could reduce tongue weight by (up to) two pounds. Probably takes a minute or two.

 

[nikerret]

At the quarry where I go, the loader operators do indeed know what they're doing. They are used to loading 20 tons or so into tri axle dump trucks. The little guy, who wants 2 or 3 tons, is just a PIA to them. Maybe not so everywhere but unfortunately, the place I go is the only game in town.

Same, here. I have accounts at a few different quarries. I also have most of the loader operator’s cell number and they know me. Even though I am a PITA (5 tons, max), they know I know what I’m doing and will get out of their way and not do dumb things.

I also have hauled a few thousands of tons out of these places, over the last couple of years, one trailer at a time. All of my loading problems have been from places that have specialized stuff and loading methods that aren’t a big ass loader.

Usually they use loaders in the 60k range. On a few occasions, their regular loader was down and they had to use one of the big ones. Sitting in my little truck under a 988 is kind of intimidating.