Loading issues on Dump Trailer

[LD1]

My 2003 Sierra 2500HD is only rated to tow 10,500 lbs because I have the lowly 6.0L LQ4 gasser. But! The very same chassis would be rated at over 18000 lbs if I had the duramax, so mine is essentially just de-rated for power and marketing considerations.

One could essentially say the same thing about half tons.

Some have a 13k tow rating with equipped with the bigger engine option and higher gearing. While lower gearing and smaller engine may only have a 6k tow rating....one could say its essentially just de-rated for power and marketing, but still has the same chassis that is rated for 13k

At the end of the day, there is just too many variables. Half tons cover a very BROAD range of towing capacities and payloads. As do 3/4 tons, SRW one tons, and DRW one tons. And each of those 4 groups of light trucks have overlap.

So the blanket statements that we see on this forum from time to time advising people "you should get a 3/4-ton" are unfounded without further information from the OP on just what he has for a truck and what its ratings are. And one thing everyone usually cites is brakes. (bigger truck has bigger brakes). Well, look at the size of the brakes on modern half tons. They have gotten ALOT bigger

 

[deezler]

^ good points!

 

[s219]

I don't think this is a 1/2 ton truck limitation. I picked this 10K dump trailer specifically because it would work well with the tow rating of my truck. Empty, the trailer weighs under 3000#. I never buy more than 3 tons of material, so that I gross out around 9000# being towed and have some decent margin below the truck's tow limit. To be honest, I think people with 3/4 ton trucks are buying 14K dump trailers, not 10K.

@bdhsfz6 brings up a good point -- where I buy material, they load with a pretty big Cat loader that has a 10' wide bucket so it doesn't have a lot of room to adjust position over the top of a 12' trailer. I am guessing the bucket can hold 8-10 tons. When I get these smaller loads, the operator almost always picks up a scoop with the corner of the bucket to get a smaller bite. Then he raises it up to measure the load weight and may curl/shake the bucket to drop some out. When he dumps it, it will still have that corner bias and the heap will be bigger on one end. The other day I tried pulling up to the pile from a different direction, thinking that would change things, but the guy still managed to scoop in a way that put more material at the front of the bed.

I might look for two 55 gal drums and strap them into the front of the bed when getting heavy materials. That would at least offset a good amount of volume and weight from the front of the bed. I can take them back out when I pickup a light material like mulch (which I can load to max volume of the box).

 

[sandman2234]

I agree that comparing half tons to half tons is ludicrous, a lesson I taught my old boss one day. We had bought out a warehouse, and there were blocks of aluminum in there that were headed for the scrap yard. His Dodge got loaded and pulled around by his office, while my Chevy was being loaded. His rear bumper looked like it was close to dragging and my Chevy sat just a little higher. Same basic trucks and tires. He pulled up on the scale, got unloaded and pulled out the gate and waited for me. I know he did some mental calculations based on what he had called for a price that morning and the load on his truck. When I brought the envelope of cash out, he realized he was way off. Then he looked at the weight we were paid for, and knew something was wrong. His truck held 1900 pounds and mine held 3500 pounds. He said that was a mistake also, and I said no, for him to go look under the rear of my truck and count the springs. I think his had four or five and mine had thirteen. The secret was, I wrecked the truck when a wrecker made a left turn in front of me, when it was 14 months old and the insurance company wouldn't total it. I took the money and bought a 66 vette and left the truck sitting. Found a 3/4 ton Camper Special with a 454 auto in it and bought it for $200. Stripped both to the frame rails, put my running gear in it, cab, bed and bought new front clip. Used the GMC grill with the 454 emblem to make people wonder. The springs were quite a bit longer on the GMC, so rather than having to drill new spring hanger holes, we left the rear springs. It still rode good, due to soft front suspension but would haul a load. A third truck the boss owned, which never got to haul anything more than a couple of passengers had a cargo rating of 200 pounds. Yes, TW0 HUNDRED POUNDS, not a typo. It was a 91 GMC body style and although it had a bed, it wasn't made for hauling anything but ass and it did that well. For those of you that don't remember the Sycone's when they came out in 91, hint hint.
As you say, not all men or trucks are created equal!
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

I don't think this is a 1/2 ton truck limitation. I picked this 10K dump trailer specifically because it would work well with the tow rating of my truck. Empty, the trailer weighs under 3000#. I never buy more than 3 tons of material, so that I gross out around 9000# being towed and have some decent margin below the truck's tow limit.

I might look for two 55 gal drums and strap them into the front of the bed when getting heavy materials. That would at least offset a good amount of volume and weight from the front of the bed. I can take them back out when I pickup a light material like mulch (which I can load to max volume of the box).

Moving the entire load backwards the distance of two drums will change the load, I just hope you don't regret it. A trailer wagging the truck is not any fun. I would drop to 2.5 or 2 tons before I did that. I already mentioned that, so I will quit now.
David from jax

 

[4570Man]

I don’t see 1140 pounds hitch weight with a WDH being a problem. Too much is better than too little.

 

[CADplans]

To the OP,, are you POSITIVE about the ratings of your equipment?

My 10K trailer means 10K TOTAL,, which includes the weight of the trailer.

I messed with 1/2 ton trucks eons ago on my BIL's farm,, near Williamsburg,
that taught me that a trailer needs a 3/4 ton truck.

Also, check the rating of your truck,,
from previous TBN discussions, a 1/2 ton truck can not legally tow the load you are towing.

My trailer is a 10 foot,, I have hauled wet river rock level full with the sides,,
That was WAY over 3 tons, probably 5 tons, but, that was only moved locally.

I vote that you need a smaller trailer, or a bigger truck,,

Actually, when I was hauling the river rock, it was level full with these boards.

It was not this rock, this is landscaping stone.

 

[LD1]

To the OP,, are you POSITIVE about the ratings of your equipment?

My 10K trailer means 10K TOTAL,, which includes the weight of the trailer.

I messed with 1/2 ton trucks eons ago on my BIL's farm,, near Williamsburg,
that taught me that a trailer needs a 3/4 ton truck.

Also, check the rating of your truck,,
from previous TBN discussions, a 1/2 ton truck can not legally tow the load you are towing.

My trailer is a 10 foot,, I have hauled wet river rock level full with the sides,,
That was WAY over 3 tons, probably 5 tons, but, that was only moved locally.

I vote that you need a smaller trailer, or a bigger truck,,

Actually, when I was hauling the river rock, it was level full with these boards.

It was not this rock, this is landscaping stone.

He said he only hauls 3 ton.

6000 pounds on a 3000 pound trailer rated for 10k . Well within the limits of the trailer and well within the limits of quite a few half ton trucks. A modern half ton truck is probably far more capable than the 3/4-ton trucks you felt we're necessary "eons ago". To day that "a trailer needs a 3/4-ton" is crazy

 

[Midniteoyl]

Also, check the rating of your truck,,
from previous TBN discussions, a 1/2 ton truck can not legally tow the load you are towing.

Which is nonsense. My truck 2019 F150 5.0L has a rating of 9100#, and up to 11,400# w/ just a different rear axle.

He specifically said:

I picked this 10K dump trailer specifically because it would work well with the tow rating of my truck. Empty, the trailer weighs under 3000#. I never buy more than 3 tons of material, so that I gross out around 9000# being towed and have some decent margin below the truck's tow limit.

So he is staying under that rating. 1/2 tons can do more than what they could do in the 70's and 80's, TBN be damned.

 

[LD1]

Which is nonsense. My truck 2019 F150 5.0L has a rating of 9100#, and up to 11,400# w/ just a different rear axle.

He specifically said:



So he is staying under that rating. 1/2 tons can do more than what they could do in the 70's and 80's, TBN be damned.

The mentality of some people here toward 1/2 ton trucks is just ignorant and unfounded

 

[ljjhouser]

My generous neighbor with the 10k 6x10 dump trailer I borrow used to haul it behind his 2002 Ford Ranger. With a 2" ball in the 2 5/16 trailer coupler. And no brake controller. Until he finally bent the frame. And then bought... a v6 f150. Still way over his capacity, still no brake controller, hopefully using the correct sized ball now (I should check). Thankfully he really only uses it to haul manure from the horse farm up the road.

What?? Who would? I guess I am speechless. or something. Everything about that spells Ranger disaster - 2" + 2 5/16 hitch and ball - no brakes ?? Interesting. Did he even have a drivers license??? How did he get it? interesting.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The mentality of some people here toward 1/2 ton trucks is just ignorant and unfounded

The newer F150 makes my '86 Ram 250 seem like a toy. It's way bigger, way stronger, and can carry and tow way more while getting 2x the MPG with lots more comfort.

 

[LD1]

The newer F150 makes my '86 Ram 250 seem like a toy. It's way bigger, way stronger, and can carry and tow way more while getting 2x the MPG with lots more comfort.

Agree. But some are still living in the past, and giving advice like it's the 80's or 90's. Maybe they just aren't familiar with the advancements of trucks over the last two decades

 

[ljjhouser]

One could essentially say the same thing about half tons.

Some have a 13k tow rating with equipped with the bigger engine option and higher gearing. While lower gearing and smaller engine may only have a 6k tow rating....one could say its essentially just de-rated for power and marketing, but still has the same chassis that is rated for 13k

At the end of the day, there is just too many variables. Half tons cover a very BROAD range of towing capacities and payloads. As do 3/4 tons, SRW one tons, and DRW one tons. And each of those 4 groups of light trucks have overlap.

So the blanket statements that we see on this forum from time to time advising people "you should get a 3/4-ton" are unfounded without further information from the OP on just what he has for a truck and what its ratings are. And one thing everyone usually cites is brakes. (bigger truck has bigger brakes). Well, look at the size of the brakes on modern half tons. They have gotten ALOT bigger

My 2021 Ram 1500 has a tow rating of 11,340 #. The rating is increased with the 3.92 rear end and matching transmission. I usually load it with 10k when hauling the tractor (tractor + trailer weight), and the Gross Vehicle Weight, the Tow Capacity and the Gross Combined Vehicle weight are all within specs. Every few trips or so, I CAT scale it to be sure I am always within those specs. It tows well -- partly because I have a very good flat bed equipment trailer which is 14K.
Would I like to have a 2500. Of course, who wouldn't. ---my wife. Too big of truck for too few towing times. Best wishes

 

[Midniteoyl]

Agree. But some are still living in the past, and giving advice like it's the 80's or 90's. Maybe they just aren't familiar with the advancements of trucks over the last two decades

Hey, at least they are down to recommending 3/4 tons. Was a time only a full 1 ton dually would do at all, everything else was just a grocery getter!

 

[LD1]

Hey, at least they are down to recommending 3/4 tons. Was a time only a full 1 ton dually would do at all, everything else was just a grocery getter!

I know alot of people around here haul 10 haybales on a gooseneck behind a 3/4 ton. That's maybe 15000-16000 in hay + trailer. So maybe 20k.

I would certainly think a guy wanting to pull a little 10k dump with a 6k load could get by just fine with a 1/2 ton

 

[nisaacs]

@bdhsfz6 brings up a good point -- where I buy material, they load with a pretty big Cat loader that has a 10' wide bucket so it doesn't have a lot of room to adjust position over the top of a 12' trailer. I am guessing the bucket can hold 8-10 tons. When I get these smaller loads, the operator almost always picks up a scoop with the corner of the bucket to get a smaller bite. Then he raises it up to measure the load weight and may curl/shake the bucket to drop some out. When he dumps it, it will still have that corner bias and the heap will be bigger on one end. The other day I tried pulling up to the pile from a different direction, thinking that would change things, but the guy still managed to scoop in a way that put more material at the front of the bed.

I might look for two 55 gal drums and strap them into the front of the bed when getting heavy materials. That would at least offset a good amount of volume and weight from the front of the bed. I can take them back out when I pickup a light material like mulch (which I can load to max volume of the box).

Your loader operator knows what he is doing. He knows you need 10-15% hitch weight for a properly loaded bumper pull trailer. The shorter the trailer, the harder this is to accomplish.

Your barrels with throw your trailer geometry off, completely. You have described a perfectly loaded truck/hitch/trailer. If the combo is unstable, you have steering issues, tire pressure issues or WD setup wrong.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Your loader operator knows what he is doing. He knows you need 10-15% hitch weight for a properly loaded bumper pull trailer. The shorter the trailer, the harder this is to accomplish.

Your barrels with throw your trailer geometry off, completely. You have described a perfectly loaded truck/hitch/trailer. If the combo is unstable, you have steering issues, tire pressure issues or WD setup wrong.

At the quarry where I go, the loader operators do indeed know what they're doing. They are used to loading 20 tons or so into tri axle dump trucks. The little guy, who wants 2 or 3 tons, is just a PIA to them. Maybe not so everywhere but unfortunately, the place I go is the only game in town.

For example, the first time I went there many years ago, I wanted one ton of mason sand in the bed of my one ton Chevy pickup. The so called "experienced" loader operator dumped what turned out to be 3 tons, completely burying the rear of the truck! He did it so fast, I didn't have time to signal him to stop. He just laughed and drove away in the loader! With no shovel and no dump capability, I had no choice. I drove to the scale with with the suspension bottomed out on the axle. I complained at the office and was blown off by the manager.

The 8 mile drive home seemed like a hundred and is one I will never repeat! It turns out I'm not the only one in town who has had this experience.

 

[s219]

Your loader operator knows what he is doing. He knows you need 10-15% hitch weight for a properly loaded bumper pull trailer. The shorter the trailer, the harder this is to accomplish.

Your barrels with throw your trailer geometry off, completely. You have described a perfectly loaded truck/hitch/trailer. If the combo is unstable, you have steering issues, tire pressure issues or WD setup wrong.

I don't think it's a matter of what they know or even getting the same operator from day to day to have consistency in what they know. Before I bought this dump trailer, I transported materials on a 16' tandem axle 7K flat bed trailer and they didn't always get that right either. With that trailer I limited myself to 2 tons of material, and the whole load was several thousand pounds below the truck's tow limit. That gave the truck much more margin but still the tongue weight (as a % of trailer gross) was often not right.

Because of the trailer geometry and axle placement, and the wide loader bucket aiming into a short bed, the new dump trailer is much more susceptible to a front bias when the load is not even in the bucket.

I am sure the operators are qualified to run the loader, but I would not count on them being savvy about the subtleties of trailer types or load distribution. They are used to dumping big loads into dump trucks most of their day.

 

[TMGT]

I don't think it's a matter of what they know or even getting the same operator from day to day to have consistency in what they know. Before I bought this dump trailer, I transported materials on a 16' tandem axle 7K flat bed trailer and they didn't always get that right either. With that trailer I limited myself to 2 tons of material, and the whole load was several thousand pounds below the truck's tow limit. That gave the truck much more margin but still the tongue weight (as a % of trailer gross) was often not right.

Because of the trailer geometry and axle placement, and the wide loader bucket aiming into a short bed, the new dump trailer is much more susceptible to a front bias when the load is not even in the bucket.

I am sure the operators are qualified to run the loader, but I would not count on them being savvy about the subtleties of trailer types or load distribution. They are used to dumping big loads into dump trucks most of their day.

From the picture they are biasing to the front, if they centered the load in the trailer you should be about right for tongue weight.

It's common at my quarry for them to automatically bias to the front, guess they'd rather have someone with too much tongue weight then not enough.