Loading issues on Dump Trailer

[LittleTractorFerndale]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

IMHO Your struggle with this is just you proving to yourself you don't have enough truck under that trailer. I have a 6X10 10k deckover on a F350 and I don't like anything past 4.5k lb in it. 3 tons is a lot of load for a car with a 4x8 shopping basket behind the seat! If you put load cells under every tire truck and trailer and load it with a coffee cup, planning where every pound is placed your still going to feel like jelly on the road with 7 to 8k in tow. That may be fine if the rig stays off the interstate at or under 30 mph but at 60 and a need for even mild corrective action, the trailer will be in control! Good luck stay safe and go get an old 1 ton. You will suddenly be very happy to feel the "forward bias" That the guy in the wheel loader knows you need!

 

[billypumper]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

The trailer is to big for the truck, should trade down to a 7k trailer then you can still haul almost 3 tons but the tongue weight would be around 700 and wouldn't have to worry about cheap paid operators who could care less how it's loaded.

 

[sandman2234]

The way the trailer's geometry is setup, because the center of the bed is ahead of the center of the axles, you are guaranteed a front bias if you load the bed evenly. If they could do that everything would be fine. But when they load the bed with a front bias on top of the front bias of the trailer geometry, it's too much tongue weight.

To me this is simple, you can see that in the basic physics of the trailer layout and I could verify it with the scale data. This should not be complicated to understand.

I am pretty sure I understand how trailers are set up, most of the time, since I have been known to build or heavily modify them to suit my particulars.
My "ugly dump trailer" started life as a 45 foot triple axle gooseneck commercial boat hauler with a twisted neck. It is now a 20 foot flatbed with a 12.5' dump section using a scissor lift at the rear.
I built a 33' flatbed with a 10' dovetail to haul vans out of Ocala years ago. Last time I saw it, it was on it's 3rd truck, the 1st two at half a million miles each.
David from jax

 

[Bob Rooks]

A half-ton pickup is barely more than a grocery-getter. Move on up to a serious truck or have your product delivered.

 

[klink]

I didn't read all the posts, but I will add a little info. I have been to a lot of quarries or bulk loading docks where they have rules that the driver must stay in the truck at all times. That may work for the big dump trucks with automated tarps and such. but I like to do a walk around making sure everything is ok and no stones or other debris is on the outside of the trailer. In short they don't want residential customers in their quarry. So as I got older, I just pay the delivery charges and save my rig for lesser duty fun jobs, such as hauling free horse manure for my large garden. I also haul my classic tractors legally. I try to haul a legal load all the times. I like sandman2234's quote ( A serious accident is one that money won't fix ) that quote is one I will remember.
Thank You Sandman2234

 

[nikerret]

It’s not just local rules. Most quarries are under regulations overseen by the Mine Safety & Health Administration. Part of their regulations determine what is required to be out of a vehicle, in the areas where loading may occur. Hard hat, steel toed boots, and reflective vest are an industry-accepted minimum. Even then, there are only a few select times the driver is allowed out of the vehicle. Getting caught not following the rules can mean huge fines, for everyone, even site closure. Not to mention the physical safety aspect.

Here is just some of the regulations the MSHA enforces:

30 CFR 56.9100 - Traffic control.

Get on top of your trade by knowing the regulations that govern it! Learn how 19 CFR affects you by gaining sound knowledge of the Code of Federal Regulations and the Customs Import and Export Regulations in the US.

www.customsmobile.com

A little on the MSHA:

MSHA or OSHA? | Pit & Quarry

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) are Department of Labor agencies.

www.pitandquarry.com

Every mine and quarry should have a sign indicating when you are required to stay in the vehicle (unless specifically directed to get out, under one of the few requirements). They will also have a dedicated tarp area that no overhead lifting is allowed by. It is usually between the scale house and the external entrance. When in doubt, look for the portable toilet. The portable toilet will be in an area that doesn’t require a hard hat, though, some companies may have internal policies to the contrary.

 

[sandman2234]

I didn't read all the posts, but I will add a little info. I have been to a lot of quarries or bulk loading docks where they have rules that the driver must stay in the truck at all times. That may work for the big dump trucks with automated tarps and such. but I like to do a walk around making sure everything is ok and no stones or other debris is on the outside of the trailer. ( A serious accident is one that money won't fix ) that quote is one I will remember.
Thank You Sandman2234

Thanks! As far as the quote... I overheard the terminal manager of a trucking company say that when he came to the scene of a truck versus train accident. One of the VERY FEW of those types where nobody was killed, however the railroad employee jumped off the train, fell down and said he needed an ambulance. Turned out all of his "conditions" were pre-existing... he was on his 3rd strike with the r/r and will be terminated if he ever returns.


The other part, If the dump truck drivers got out of the truck a little more often, they wouldn't need to put "Keep back 200 feet, not responsible for broken windshields" signs on the back of their trucks. I was in the lane next to one when a stone bounced off the back of the rear lip and cracked my windshield. I called the company and they said they weren't responsible for items coming up from the road. I told them I had video they might get to see in court if they refused to pay for it (as in I am heading for a windshield shop NOW). I also suggested they call the driver and have him brush off the rear lip, before they had to buy even more windshields. They paid for it, no questions asked, but did want me to send the video to them so they could bill the driver. Apparently a requirement for them to sweep off all loose rocks.
David from jax

 

[nikerret]

Apparently a requirement for them to sweep off all loose rocks.

It‘s law under “load securement”. Thus the reason every quarry should (unless they are disregarding the regulations) have a dedicated “tarp” area. They can’t make you stay in your truck and make you responsible for loose rocks.

 

[hacksaw11111]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

Why don't you use the dump feature and shift the load back over the axles?

 

[nikerret]

Just an example of one of the quarries I frequent. I can make a few others, if it’s useful or there’s interest. There are five I frequent, all set up differently, and a few more I don’t go to very often.

Forgot to label the entrance, it’s the driveway on the left.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Obviously loaded too far forward. Tell the Operators first then stand by the trailer and see that they comply. What is the Gross weight with that load? Looks too much for your truck to me.

~3 ton. He already calculated the total weight and is under the trailer's and truck's ratings.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Hey, at least they are down to recommending 3/4 tons. Was a time only a full 1 ton dually would do at all, everything else was just a grocery getter!

IMHO Your struggle with this is just you proving to yourself you don't have enough truck under that trailer. I have a 6X10 10k deckover on a F350 and I don't like anything past 4.5k lb in it. 3 yards of what? some soils can get close to 2.5k lb, gravel 3.5k per "true yard" LOL. Thats a lot of load for a car with a 4x8 shopping basket behind the seat! If you put load cells under every tire truck and trailer and load it with a coffee cup, planning where every pound is placed your still going to feel like jelly on the road with 7 to 8k in tow. That may be fine if the rig stays off the interstate at or under 30 mph but at 60 and a need for even mild corrective action The trailer will be in control! Good luck stay safe and go get an old 1 ton. You will suddenly be very happy to feel the "forward bias" That the guy in the wheel loader knows you need!

Hahaha.. Called it!!

 

[s219]

I appreciate all the feedback, but it's not helpful to hear this ongoing soap box that the trailer is overloaded and/or the truck is too small. Both the trailer and the truck are well within rated capacity to carry a 3-ton load of material. I specifically haul a max of 3 tons so that I stay under the ratings of both the trailer and truck for additional margin.

The whole purpose of these smaller 10K dump trailers is to work with the tow ratings of modern 1/2 ton trucks (people with 3/4 ton should be buying the 14K or larger models).

Operationally, here is how things work at the local yard. I drive onto the scales and tell the lady at the scale house what I want. She knows my account based on license plate number and opens a tab. She sends the info to the loader operator who gets the order and license plate number on the laptop screen in his cab. I drive over to the relevant pile (there are about 40 different types of materials here) and wait. At the time, there could be 5-6 customers ahead of me, most large tri-axle dump trucks but a lot of contractors with smaller trucks and trailers too. When it's my turn, the loader comes over and does his thing. At no time am I allowed out of the vehicle unless it's an emergency. As mentioned before, the loader bucket is about the same size as the trailer so the operator doesn't have much leeway except to aim so it doesn't go on the ground. If the scoop is asymmetric, then the load is going to be asymmetric too. When he's done, he honks the horn and I drive back over to the scale to get weighed and billed, and the lady drops the ticket down to me on a clipboard at the end of a rope. I then pull off the scale and go on my way. If the load needs adjusting, I do it before getting back on the public road.

 

[Tony H]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

Get out of the truck and line the loader up on your trailer tires. I know you said you can't get out, same rules by me but if you get out and stay insight of the Loader guy. As well as stay keep the trailer between you and the Loader. They don't get ruffled feathers. As he heads up with the loaf, direct him, if the dope loaded his bucket unevenly then it is really important you direct him.
Maybe start by telling the Scale person to ask the Loader guy to center the load.

 

[s219]

BTW, it hasn't happened to me yet -- maybe because my trailer is well made -- but I have heard that some trailers can't even dump a load that is overly front-biased. If that were the case, you'd be shoveling material to the back for sure.

 

[72chevy4x4]

it's a piece of cake for a good loading operator to 'swish' around some material towards the back of the dump trailer. If not, manually move some-you likely won't get a great deal of weight moved, but it will help.

re: your 1500-I put additional springs in my 1500 suburban (many years back) and hauled a lot of dirt with a 14k trailer. don't recall the brand or details fo the springs, but they mounted on top fo the existing springs and really only came into play when a load was applied. a great electric trailer brake controller should be installed.

 

[Golden Rocket]

The load is your responsibility (legal stand-point) on the highways/roadways - NOT the quarry operator so it is IMPERATIVE that you tell the loader operator where to load it!!! Marking the side rails for load area/no load area will go a long ways to helping ensure an evenly loaded trailer, you do want some forward, like a cargo load, placing weight forward of the axles ensures a safer tow (until you exceed your tongue weight capacity of course). The responsibility is no different than when hauling a strapped down load on a deck trailer, the load is ALWAYS your responsibility. Don't forget about the flying debris from ma gravel load, tarp it over - cheers

 

[hdhawg7]

did anybody think about stopping? pulling is one thing but stopping is another factor altogether. if your having problems pulling you are going to have an accident sometime trying to stop in an emergency.yes i know trailer has brakes but truck is too small to handle weight shifting under braking.

 

[Martin Roper]

I got a 6x12 10K dump trailer earlier this year. Due to tow limits of my 1/2-ton truck, I never purchase more than 3 tons of material. When loaded properly, the trailer tows great. But I'd say 80% of the time, the local yards load me with a forward bias, creating too much tongue weight. I picked up three loads today and they were all forward biased, some worse than others.

I installed a W.D.H. to help in these situations, and it does what it is supposed to but won't cure poor loading or too much tongue weight. While pulling onto the scale for my first load this morning, I carefully noted the measurements as each axle went onto the scale, before and after being loaded. While eating lunch I did some math. The trailer has only 300# tongue weight when empty, which matches what I measured with a bathroom scale a couple months ago. When loaded too far forward, tongue weight was 1140#, more than my truck is meant to handle and visually way too much even with a W.D.H. If loaded evenly, it should have been in the 700-800# range.

I'm trying to decide how to deal with this. At this point, my only solution is to carefully raise the trailer bed to shift some of the material rearward, but that is a pain to do and needs careful judgement (not all loads slide the same). I am wondering if I should fab up some sort of sealed chamber at the front of the trailer bed to block off volume so that material cannot physically occupy the front couple feet of the bed (it would have to be angled to force material to flow to the rear). Somehow I need to prevent operators from loading with a forward bias and the only solution I can think of is to eliminate that volume. Any other ideas?

Don't be afraid to tell the loader how you want it loaded, after all it is you that will be prosecuted not them.

 

[Renze]

For example, the first time I went there many years ago, I wanted one ton of mason sand in the bed of my one ton Chevy pickup. The so called "experienced" loader operator dumped what turned out to be 3 tons, completely burying the rear of the truck! He did it so fast, I didn't have time to signal him to stop. He just laughed and drove away in the loader! With no shovel and no dump capability, I had no choice. I drove to the scale with with the suspension bottomed out on the axle. I complained at the office and was blown off by the manager.

The 8 mile drive home seemed like a hundred and is one I will never repeat! It turns out I'm not the only one in town who has had this experience.

At the quarry, on slow days, loader operators create some sensation by purposedly overfilling wee little trailers, filling over the sides so the wheels are blocked in.

When asking for a m3 of topsoil and a m3 of compost for my fathers flower beds, the operator gave me 800kg of compost and 3 ton of wet topsoil, smirking while dumping a full bucket of his L90 on it whilst seeing the scale hit 5960kg. I drove home at the speed limit to not draw attention, my S70 TDI had no problem pulling it (the same engine was also in the VW LT van, the VW version of the Merc Sprinter) but i was near double the GCW rating.

Those guys just enjoy that.... Next time i will show up with the tractor and 7 ton dump trailer.

Anyways, to the OP: just pull the top of the heap flat with a shovel before driving off, to wherever you need the weight. You're overthinking this.