Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[TheFarmerInAdell]

No the grass is dry and sparse. Not loading the mower at all. I am sure it is a belt tension issue now and have ordered the Gates tension gauge. Should be here on Wednesday. The Caroni has a spring loaded tension spring but it is adjustable and when I get back to this I will put more pressure on the belts and clean / sand the pulleys to remove any glaze. It might be a few days though as I'm in the middle of another project. Converting a 3PTH brush mower to an FEL side mount mower.

Do you have a cogged belt or a standard belt? If the pulley's are too small in diameter the standard belts tend to heat up from the motion of going around the small pulley when they stretch on the outside and collapse on the inside. Cogged belts alleviate most of this by having gaps in the inner diameter to allow the movement without the compression that a standard belt goes through. This will also help lengthen the life of the belt because as the belt stretches and compresses the molecules that make up the rubber rub on each other. This is a cause of heat.

Side mounted brush mower? like the lane shark?

 

[JimCan]

JWR.... Mine got hot a year ago. I kept cutting knee/waist weed-grass in a 5ac pasture with my JD-1070, 40hp. I started to smell the belts... I got new (unkn?) and so far this year - much better, but I am assuming replacing belts will be an annual or semi-annual event.

I made two changes that 'work better for me' ... I removed those front floppers. I kept having long/thin grass excaping the gillotine by laying down - then poping up after I passed and giving me the finger. I also moved the roller down a couple of positions. That first year you'd hear noise like when someone eats bad meat back there. Without the flappers it seems to throw the mulch farther forward (so it is not so congested) and being a little higher at the back does not get indigestion like before. I can often mow at 2L now.

Jim

(In my county there are contractors that use flails to do the shoulders - I asked one what his setting were (2,500rpm - me: 2,200) and they also removed the floppers to get the taller stuff. That's where I got the idea.)

 

[Hilbilly]

Do you have a cogged belt or a standard belt? If the pulley's are too small in diameter the standard belts tend to heat up from the motion of going around the small pulley when they stretch on the outside and collapse on the inside. Cogged belts alleviate most of this by having gaps in the inner diameter to allow the movement without the compression that a standard belt goes through. This will also help lengthen the life of the belt because as the belt stretches and compresses the molecules that make up the rubber rub on each other. This is a cause of heat.

Side mounted brush mower? like the lane shark?

I have a standard belt but see what you're saying about the cog being better. If I can't resolve this with a proper tension setting, then I will see about getting some cog belts.

So far the brush mower is a mix between a Lane Shark and a Limb Ninja. I have another thread going about it https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/416146-fel-mounted-brush-mower-trimmer.html and will post some more pics tonight or tomorrow. So far it works great but I'm going to make some changes to it.

 

[hunt4570]

I have a standard belt but see what you're saying about the cog being better. If I can't resolve this with a proper tension setting, then I will see about getting some cog belts.

So far the brush mower is a mix between a Lane Shark and a Limb Ninja. I have another thread going about it https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/416146-fel-mounted-brush-mower-trimmer.html and will post some more pics tonight or tomorrow. So far it works great but I'm going to make some changes to it.

So I just got done mowing with my Caroni for about 4 hrs straight, the belt cover was hot but I didn't think anything out of the ordinary, I could put my hand on it but just for a second, but then again its in the nineties and without running I think the hood of my truck is about the same. I thought I had belt tensioning instructions but couldn't find it just now, I'll look again later.

 

[Dan in MN]

I would guess rather strongly that your belt/belts are slipping. That's about the only way you'll get that much heat up there (since you manually rotated things and they all seem free to rotate.) I have no experience with a Caroni but the flail mower I use has a very strong tensioner spring which keeps good tension on the drive belt. You are not running in such heavy/wet/deep grass that it bogs down are you ?

Check to see that the ends of the shaft underneath aren't wound tight with grass/mud/etc..., that will generate a lot of heat in the bearings that would work its way outward.

 

[cscholz]

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Hello and good morning Hillbilly,

Please give me a few hours to contact my friends in Italy to obtain the correct tension needed in Newton meters for the V belts.

Hi leonz (or anyone),

Have we figured out the recommended tension for the 3 belts on the Caroni TM1900? I just replace the original belts after about 10 hours of use with a new set from Agri-Supply. I also have 2 more sets of Kevlar belts, but I figured I'd use the free ones while it's under warranty. I also have the Gates tension gauge, but I'm not sure where to set the belts. I have them around 50 lbs at the moment (which is about 1/8-1/4" deflection on the long span).

Thanks for any help.

Carl

 

[leonz]

Hi leonz (or anyone),

Have we figured out the recommended tension for the 3 belts on the Caroni TM1900? I just replace the original belts after about 10 hours of use with a new set from Agri-Supply. I also have 2 more sets of Kevlar belts, but I figured I'd use the free ones while it's under warranty. I also have the Gates tension gauge, but I'm not sure where to set the belts. I have them around 50 lbs at the moment (which is about 1/8-1/4" deflection on the long span).

Thanks for any help.

Carl

=======================================================================================

Hello and good morning Carl,

If you still have the instructions for the V belt tension gauge follow them exactly for one belt.As long as the three V belts have the same lot number you will be fine.

Once you have the gauge correctly set on the outer belt follow the V belt gauge directions for the tension measurements EXACTLY for how the V belt is tensioned on the flail mower.

Be sure to spin the V belt a little to measure the tension at several points on the V-belt.


Happy Mowing.

 

[Hilbilly]

The Gates gauge I just got indicates 60lbs would be right for a 2 pulley system with an idler. I had mine set under 50lbs and have recently adjusted them to 60lbs but haven't used the mower since then. I still need to clean the pulleys too.

Carl, if you set yours to 60lbs let us know how it turns out.

 

[thoner7]

I'm in the market for a used flail mower with a 7 or 8 foot cut. A Ford, JD, Alamo, that's what I'm seeing.

With bush hogs the rule of thumb is 5 hp per foot of cut, as a minimum. Is that still true of flail mowers?

I will be mowing just grasses. Maybe letting it get 18" high, cutting to 4 or 6" a few times per year.

Im linking to a video for a 96" flail. WoodMaxx FM-96H Flail mower - YouTube

I picked this video because the weeds/grass shown is exactly what my land looks like now. In the future I hope to never let it get like that however, this would be a worst case scenario for me. In this video the tractor he is on is a Montana 4940 which has 44 PTO HP. Is this an accurate representation of power needed? He is cutting fairly slowly, but I doubt I'd go much fast in reality.

I have a Perkins diesel MF 150 at the moment.

 

[leonz]

Hello thoner7,

My father used a 1953 gas Ford Jubilee with his John Deere 25A to knock down 15 foot+ goldenrod to reclaim 12 acres of old pasture.
After that he mowed 4 acre blocks every two weeks to keep it 2 inches tall.

Your mule will be fine with a used JD25A, 290 or 390.

A flail mower uses the verticut method of brush and grass mowing where it employs a side slicer knife, scoop knife or hammer knife and the flail mower rotor speed of rotation is 2,200" feet per minute. Depending on the design of the flail mower rotor it will have either a linear knife mounting row that will have 2, 3 or 4 rows of mounting stations or with the European made cast hammer knife flail mowers they can be spiral mounted on the flail mower rotor.

The five horsepower per foot of cutting edge is misleading that is just sales talk. The mules PTO horsepower is what you need to work with and as the flail mower is belt driven through the one to one right angle gearbox to the drive pulley and through the V belts to the driven pulley.


A flail mower has many more inches of cutting edge to mow with and if side slicers are used double the cutting edge surface length if the unused edge is added to the total cutting edge length.

 

[JWR]

I run a 7.5 ft Alamo SHD-88 on an 81HP MF 2660 which is no doubt tractor overkill. Still the 7 or 8 ft flail is a heavy machine and I always feel overkill is better than being under powered. I don't know how committed you are to using the MF150 long-term but it will probably handle the 8ft flail in lighter materials. Depends a lot on what you intend longer-term. I had the MF 2660 since 2011 and got the flail at an auction 2 yrs ago for next to nothing. Put some parts on it and have found it to be a very useful attachment for about 1/10 the cost of a new one.

There are many of these fail mowers around in auctions and sold used because so many of them are used by highway departments. Since you are in the market for a used flail mower you can try it on the MF 150 and if you conclude it needs a bigger tractor, sell the mower and find a smaller one. With a little luck someone on TBN will chime in here with direct MF150 flail mower experience.

I had not seen Leonz post 6272 when I first typed this. You have as much or more power than the 1953 Ford Jubilee so you should be OK per Leonz comments. However, I did not see mention of how wide the JD 25A was that Leonz describes using.

 

[cscholz]

=======================================================================================

Hello and good morning Carl,

If you still have the instructions for the V belt tension gauge follow them exactly for one belt.As long as the three V belts have the same lot number you will be fine.

Once you have the gauge correctly set on the outer belt follow the V belt gauge directions for the tension measurements EXACTLY for how the V belt is tensioned on the flail mower.

Be sure to spin the V belt a little to measure the tension at several points on the V-belt.


Happy Mowing.

Hi Leonz,

Using the gauge is not my issue. What I don't know is the target tension. The instructions for the gauge give some guidelines for cars and trucks - typical combinations of drive pulley and water pump/alternator/etc. The range is about 50-100 lbs and then there's a comment that if it's a 2 belt system, you should divide that tension in half for each belt.

It seems to me that there should be a known target tension (in lbs or kgs) for the 3 belts on the TM1900. Again, I just guessed at 50 lbs (for 1 belt) which would imply 150 lbs total for a 3 belt system. But that was just a guess.

I'm just trying to get a tension number to adjust to.

Carl

 

[thoner7]

Hello thoner7,

My father used a 1953 gas Ford Jubilee with his John Deere 25A to knock down 15 foot+ goldenrod to reclaim 12 acres of old pasture.
After that he mowed 4 acre blocks every two weeks to keep it 2 inches tall.

Your mule will be fine with a used JD25A, 290 or 390.

A flail mower uses the verticut method of brush and grass mowing where it employs a side slicer knife, scoop knife or hammer knife and the flail mower rotor speed of rotation is 2,200" feet per minute. Depending on the design of the flail mower rotor it will have either a linear knife mounting row that will have 2, 3 or 4 rows of mounting stations or with the European made cast hammer knife flail mowers they can be spiral mounted on the flail mower rotor.

The five horsepower per foot of cutting edge is misleading that is just sales talk. The mules PTO horsepower is what you need to work with and as the flail mower is belt driven through the one to one right angle gearbox to the drive pulley and through the V belts to the driven pulley.


A flail mower has many more inches of cutting edge to mow with and if side slicers are used double the cutting edge surface length if the unused edge is added to the total cutting edge length.

There's a lot of info there, and I can't say I understand it all. Double edged side slicers?!?!

What would you say is the minimum PTO HP needed for an 8 foot mower in the conditions I described?

 

[Fallon]

There's a lot of info there, and I can't say I understand it all. Double edged side slicers?!?!

What would you say is the minimum PTO HP needed for an 8 foot mower in the conditions I described?

50+. I run a 7' on a 40hp (engine) L4060HSTC. Think it's under 35pto. Heavy thick grass really slows me down, Colorado grass fields & light to moderate brush not so much.

 

[lostcreekranch]

I'm in the market for a used flail mower with a 7 or 8 foot cut. A Ford, JD, Alamo, that's what I'm seeing.

With bush hogs the rule of thumb is 5 hp per foot of cut, as a minimum. Is that still true of flail mowers?

I will be mowing just grasses. Maybe letting it get 18" high, cutting to 4 or 6" a few times per year.

Im linking to a video for a 96" flail. WoodMaxx FM-96H Flail mower - YouTube

I picked this video because the weeds/grass shown is exactly what my land looks like now. In the future I hope to never let it get like that however, this would be a worst case scenario for me. In this video the tractor he is on is a Montana 4940 which has 44 PTO HP. Is this an accurate representation of power needed? He is cutting fairly slowly, but I doubt I'd go much fast in reality.

I have a Perkins diesel MF 150 at the moment.

If you check the Woodmaxx site they specify minimum 50 PTO HP for that cutter.

FM-96H PTO Flail Mower (96")

Mower-Comparison-Chart.png - Google Drive

 

[leonz]

Hi Leonz,

Using the gauge is not my issue. What I don't know is the target tension. The instructions for the gauge give some guidelines for cars and trucks - typical combinations of drive pulley and water pump/alternator/etc. The range is about 50-100 lbs and then there's a comment that if it's a 2 belt system, you should divide that tension in half for each belt.

It seems to me that there should be a known target tension (in lbs or kgs) for the 3 belts on the TM1900. Again, I just guessed at 50 lbs (for 1 belt) which would imply 150 lbs total for a 3 belt system. But that was just a guess.

I'm just trying to get a tension number to adjust to.

Carl

==========================================================================================================

Hello Carl,


50-55 pounds tension should be fine with the triple pulleys and the 3 belt wide tension snubber. I am still waiting on a response from caroni for a number of flail mower questions to help the fellow members.

 

[thoner7]

If you check the Woodmaxx site they specify minimum 50 PTO HP for that cutter.

FM-96H PTO Flail Mower (96")

Mower-Comparison-Chart.png - Google Drive

I saw that, but then they run it behind a 44 horse machine in their demo lol.

 

[cscholz]

==========================================================================================================

Hello Carl,


50-55 pounds tension should be fine with the triple pulleys and the 3 belt wide tension snubber. I am still waiting on a response from caroni for a number of flail mower questions to help the fellow members.

Thanks! I will check them again before the next mowing.

Carl

 

[leonz]

There's a lot of info there, and I can't say I understand it all. Double edged side slicers?!?!

What would you say is the minimum PTO HP needed for an 8 foot mower in the conditions I described?

========================================================================================================================================================================================================================


Hello thoner7,

When my father first started using a Mathews Company Lawn Genie pick up mower it was a towed 36 inch flail mower with a Briggs & Stratton 8 horsepower engine.

He mowed a mile long jogging track for my mother in the old pasture as it was not safe for here to jog on the county road.

The goldenrod and other brush was at least fifteen feet tall in places and he mowed the jogging track for her using a hydrostatic drive wheel horse lawn tractor towing the lawn genie making two passes to mow it down to 2 inches tall so she could jog on the path without fear of tripping and hurting herself.

He made the first 2 passes and then kept mowing it down wider and picking up what he mowed so she would not slip on the clippings.



Side slicer flail mower knives have 2 cutting edges which allow the user to simply flip the knife to the sharp side and continue mowing.
That is what I was referring to these mowers having double the cutting edge length of any rotary cutter or reel mower.


Your mule has a 12 speed transmission with the hydro low and high in each gear and 45 gross horsepower with 38 HP at the PTO

You have plenty of power for an 7 foot JD 25A or 7 foot JD 290 or JD 8 foot cut model 390 finish flail mower.

There are a lot of good used JD25A and 290 flail mowers for sale with the seven foot cut and used 8 foot cut model JD 390 flail mowers.


Decide on which brand of flail mower you want and what cutting width and then go from there and we will
help you with what ever you need as your mule has plenty of power for the mower you pick.

You just have to be more aware of the chaff screen and how soon It may plug from any fine dust and chaff
and checking the oil bath air cleaner before and halfway in the mowing job to make sure it has enough oil in
it to clean the diesel engines intake air when you mow.

Once you have the flail mower set up with a 2 inch cut your mowing will be very easy to do.


If you purchase a used JD flail mower parts will be easy to obtain and much more quickly as well. you will spend less money on a used JD flail mower as long as you use tractor house or auction time to buy it and also check with the local JD dealers to see if they have a used flail mower in stock from a trade.


No worries we will help you.

 

[lostcreekranch]

I saw that, but then they run it behind a 44 horse machine in their demo lol.

I have doubts that a 49 HP tractor produces 44 PTO HP?

My LS XR4155HC (55 HP) is rated at 44 PTO HP.

My LS XR4046HC (46 HP) was rated at 37.3 PTO HP.

My NH TL100A (98 HP) is rated at 87.2 PTO HP.

The Montana tractors are built by LS.