Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Ozarks Landowner]

Electric motor shops build up then turn shafts on motors. They have a balance machine to check it. Do you know what kind of balancer they use. I've seen them running and turning the motor shaft but a 6' or more flail shaft might be too long ?? and it might not be the type of balance you need ?? Just a thought.

I explained exactly what I had and they checked to make sure they could do it. I asked how it would be done and they recommended balancing bare and then installing all attachments and then balancing again. I also talked to their shop in Conway Ark. and they also said they could do it but their balancer was broke down. I would hope that they know what they're talking about but you never know. Here is what they have on the web site. Sounds pretty good to me.

EVANS DYNAMIC BALANCING

Each plant maintains its own dynamic balancing equipment to assure that all rotating elements are properly balanced before the unit is assembled. Even the most demanding balance tolerances can be met and the results are available in our Detailed Reports. All dynamic balancing and vibration analysis services are available in our facilities as well as at your job-site. In shop balancing is in accordance with the American Petroleum Institute (API) formula for rotor balancing. 4X rotor weight divided by RPM of unit = Unbalance Tolerance – Oz. Inches. Our balance technicians are trained at the Entek IRD Vibration Institute to Technical Associates Level I and Level II.

 

[Jelf]

... Part 1 ...

Recently I received my Caroni TM1900BSC mower from AgriSupply and have made the following modifications.
1. Replaced all the clevis pieces with a studier clevis piece.
2. Replaced all bolts and nuts with a clevis pin and locking spring clip. Actually 2 bolts remain, one at each end, since there is not enough room to replace those bolts with clevis pins.
3. Replaced all OEM 'Y' blades with duckfoot finish blades.

Below is a pic with the replacement parts on the left and OEM parts on the right. Note - After taking this pic I decided to rotate the spring clip before inserting it.



Obviously replacing these components is experimental but I have mowed our pasture and so far so good. I got the idea for using duckfoot blades from this guy:
Caroni TM1900 Flail Mower... - OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

The AgriSupply manager that deals with importing Caroni mowers is Rodney Barbour. At my request he asked Caroni about replacing the 'Y' blades with duckfoot blades. He reported that Caroni's only concern was the possibility of needing to rebalance the rotor. I went ahead and replaced the parts as described above and fired it up. There is no apparent vibration or noise that sounds like impending disaster so I am assuming the rotor balance is still good enough.

Here are sources for the parts I used.

Clevis (also called shackle)
SHA38LRBT 3/8" Bolt Type Safety Shackle | GME Supply | GME Supply
Here is the post by TDVT who first reported about this model of clevis earlier in this thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...alk-flail-mowers-post3900714.html#post3900714

Duckfoot blades - Flailmaster DFM-2042
SINGLE PIECE BLADE - DANDL FLAIL
Any blade you buy needs to have a 1 inch tall slot so it will fit onto the clevis. I had to do a very modest amount of grinding on maybe half of my clevis pieces so the clevis would fit through the blade slot.

Clevis pin
Clevis Pins with Holes - Pivot Point
I bought part CP-178.
So far I have not had any problem with grass wrapping around the extra length of the clevis pin. But if I was doing it again I likely would buy the next shorter length. Keep in mind that the pin needs to be long enough so you can easily grab onto the spring clip.
The Caroni bolts are metric grade 8.8 which is about the same as a SAE grade 5. I asked pivotpins and they said these clevis pins are grade 2. Time will tell if that makes any practical difference. We will not know if these grade 2 clevis pins work for mowing brush and rocks until someone tries.

Spring clip (aka Bow tie cotter pin)
https://www.pivotpins.com/products/bp-bow-tie-locking-cotters.html
I bought part Bow-91. Note that this clip has a locking mechanism. The metal is spring steel.
This spring clip can be inserted into the clevis pin two different ways. After pondering this I decided to always be certain that I inserted the spring clip with the body of the clip between the clevis pin and the rotor. By doing it this way I believe the odds are quite low that debris will cause the spring clip to open and fall out.
To remove the pin I rotate the rotor so a set of mounting tabs are facing me, pull the locking part of the clip toward me and pull down with the other hand. The clip comes right out.

My towing unit is a Kubota L35. This is a backhoe with bar tires that can double as a tractor, instead of a tractor that can double as a backhoe. The engine is 35 hp with 26 hp on the PTO. It is *not* HST. I was a bit concerned whether this would be enough PTO power for the Caroni 1900. I can now report it is ample. But keep in mind that I am mowing grass and weeds, not brush and rocks.

 

[Steave]

I explained exactly what I had and they checked to make sure they could do it. I asked how it would be done and they recommended balancing bare and then installing all attachments and then balancing again. I also talked to their shop in Conway Ark. and they also said they could do it but their balancer was broke down. I would hope that they know what they're talking about but you never know. Here is what they have on the web site. Sounds pretty good to me.

EVANS DYNAMIC BALANCING

Each plant maintains its own dynamic balancing equipment to assure that all rotating elements are properly balanced before the unit is assembled. Even the most demanding balance tolerances can be met and the results are available in our Detailed Reports. All dynamic balancing and vibration analysis services are available in our facilities as well as at your job-site. In shop balancing is in accordance with the American Petroleum Institute (API) formula for rotor balancing. 4X rotor weight divided by RPM of unit = Unbalance Tolerance Oz. Inches. Our balance technicians are trained at the Entek IRD Vibration Institute to Technical Associates Level I and Level II.

Well that sounds good and seems as if they know what they're doing but I don't know what half that even means. :confused3: My Mott 72 turns at 2160 RPM when I'm running 1800 RPM engine speed which equals 540 PTO speed. Once I get close to this speed the mower smoothes out so I guess mine is balanced good enough.

What kind of business is Evans Dynamic Balancing. Ive never heard of a shop that just does balancing. I can't imagine enough jobs to keep a business running. I must be missing something. One more question, are they going to do whats necessary to balance the rotor or tell you what needs to be done. I'm assuming they would correct it if it's out of balance by drilling material from the rotor instead of welding on weights like the factory does. Might need to ask even though I don't know what it would matter either way.

 

[BoylermanCT]

Jeff, thank you for this info. I am on the fence on getting a flail, but saw the same post in the Kubota forum and was thinking of doing the same conversion. I have bookmarked your post for future use. I believe Island Tractor also replaced his clevises to upgrade them to stronger ones.

How does it mow compared to the original blades? Does it give you a finish mow or still a somewhat rough mow.

I just bought a new zero turn, and I can now mow my 2 acre field in 1 hour instead of 2 hours. But the flail would give me the option of now mowing every week and still getting a nice cut.

 

[Ozarks Landowner]

Well that sounds good and seems as if they know what they're doing but I don't know what half that even means. :confused3: My Mott 72 turns at 2160 RPM when I'm running 1800 RPM engine speed which equals 540 PTO speed. Once I get close to this speed the mower smoothes out so I guess mine is balanced good enough.

What kind of business is Evans Dynamic Balancing. Ive never heard of a shop that just does balancing. I can't imagine enough jobs to keep a business running. I must be missing something. One more question, are they going to do whats necessary to balance the rotor or tell you what needs to be done. I'm assuming they would correct it if it's out of balance by drilling material from the rotor instead of welding on weights like the factory does. Might need to ask even though I don't know what it would matter either way.

They are mostly in the electric motor business it seems. Website says 10 shops and 250 techs. Full machine shop on site. I plan on being there through the whole thing and am taking alot of my own tools to do whatever I can. I never thought of drilling out material. They may just tape weights on for me to weld on later. I hope they put them on as the weight of the weld would throw things out again even though it wouldn't be much. It didn't show up on what I copied from their website but it showed a picture of a huge rotor of some sort sitting on a balance machine. I told them my rotor was 8' and weighed between 100 and 200 lbs and they said no problem. I would not be totally surprised to get up there and they say they can't do it though. It seems my luck kind of runs that way.

 

[IslandTractor]

Jelf, that was an epic and VERY useful post you made last night on your Caroni mods. I'm going to guess you are an engineer given the precise and organized way you went about researching it. I wish there was a way to bookmark it for future Caroni owners to find.

Keep us posted with updates.

 

[powerscol]

Just one question - is the scoop blade on backward in the photo. the cutting edge is opposite of the Y-knife edges

 

[Jelf]

Just one question - is the scoop blade on backward in the photo. the cutting edge is opposite of the Y-knife edges

The pic I posted showing both duckfoot and Y blades is taken from the rear of the mower. The Y blades are reversible. When you look at the pic you are seeing the non-cutting edge of the Y blade.

 

[Ozarks Landowner]

Heading up there for the balancing first thing in the morning. Hopefully I will have a good report tomorrow evening.

I found some cracks that need to be repaired before I put the rotor back in and with this rain we are having I'm not sure if I will be able to get to it for a few days but we will see.

 

[Jelf]

... Part 2 ...

@IslandTractor - No, I am not an engineer. Instead I am a software developer. Anyone who likes maps can check out Gmap4 which is an enhanced Google map viewer and one of my public service projects.
Default map: Map Produced By Gmap4 | Enhanced Google Map Viewer
Homepage: Gmap4 = Free Online Topo Maps + Google Maps + More

And now back to flail mowers.

I live near Redmond, Washington. Since the nearest a semi can reasonably get to our place is a half mile, I had AgriSupply ship the mower 'will call' to a freight yard not that far away. I took our pickup to the yard and they slipped it into the truck with their forklift. The mower was strapped to a single pallet. AgriSupply already setup the mower by attaching the frame for the top link. If you want to get a mower shipped to you exactly as it comes from the factory then you will need to specify that when you place your order.



The frame at each end of the mower has 2 lift holes which solved the problem of lifting the mower enough to drive the truck out from under.



I had a mishap related to cutting the PTO shaft so it would not be too long. After cutting I removed the safety shields so I could clean up the bits of metal and plastic. In reinstalling the safety shields I broke a black plastic collar. Grrr.... I called AgriSupply and wound up talking to a service tech. It turns out that up until a couple of years ago Caroni supplied a PTO shaft from a different manufacturer and parts were readily available. But now that Caroni is supplying a different PTO shaft the AgriSupply staff have to tear apart a PTO shaft when a customer like me needs a part. The tech told me *they* have broken the same part trying to disassemble one of these PTO shafts. AgriSupply mailed me a replacement part at their cost and I was able to carefully install it on the PTO shaft.

As a 'Plan B' the AgriSupply tech also offered to send me a complete new half of the PTO shaft from a different manufacture and all at their cost. Now that is customer service! Of course I did not need this since I was able to install the replacement part.

Prior to getting this flail mower I have been using a mower that cut at 4 inches with no way to adjust the height. With the flail mower I am going to start out cutting at a 3 inch height and see how it goes. Here is what I did to adjust the mower for that cutting height:
1. Feet - one spot down from the highest possible position.
2. Roller - middle position. I can just get to the roller grease fittings.
3. Parked on a concrete slab and adjusted the lift arms for a 3 inch cutting height. Set the lift arm stopper.
4. Adjusted the top link to be in the middle of the slot on the mower frame.

It turned out that my 15 inch top link was not quite long enough so I bought a 20 inch top link.

To replace all the hardware hanging on the rotor (see my 'Part 1' post) I parked on the level, raised the mower with the 3-point and blocked under the lift arms for safety. There is plenty of room to sit on a short stool and reach under and/or over the roller. Now that I have done it a couple of times I can swap between my two sets of blades in 25 minutes working at a normal pace. I will be mowing for some of the neighbors and I plan to use the 'Y' blades the first time mowing on ground that I do not know well.

A minor problem arose when I started mowing our pasture and noticed that the snap pin was missing from the big pin that connects the top link to the mower. The replacement snap pin also soon went missing. What the ....!?!

Turns out my big pin holding the top link to the mower was only just barely long enough. There is no room on my big pin for any washers and somehow as a result that was blowing up the snap pin. This has never happened on my other 3-point gear. The simple solution was to get a bit longer top link pin and some washers. Problem solved.