Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[leonz]

Hello all I have just purchased a Kubota Grand L3560-LE cab tractor. The L3560 is still in the shipping crate at the dealer waiting to be assembled. My Location is Eastern Shore Maryland.

I have been reading this site for the last three months to help determine the L3560 tractor as the size that would work for my uses. I have had a John Deere 790 gear transmission, which quickly was traded for a John Deere 3320 hydro unit 8 months later. I do not have either tractor currently sold them off during the great downturn back in 08. I used the 3320 to keep the growth down after a Takeuchi t-130 Track loader had been through with a brush hog to do the initial clearing. I have tried to hire out the first cut, but no one is willing to go into the woods as it is in a low lying area and everyone in town knows it is not a matter of if you will get stuck, but how many times, will you be stuck?nd how bad will one be stuck.

It痴 true you will get stuck. I hogged it many times. I only got stuck twice, used a com-along to get unstuck, because there痴 no getting a tow truck to you and no one else near me has a tractor to help out.

My usage will be maintaining 11 acres of woods that was last bushhogged 12 years ago, 3 acres woods that was bushogged 12 years ago and my new home site of six acres that has not seen a tractor in over 30 years also wooded at the current time. I will also be maintaining the ditches that are around the 13 acres, both sides of the ditches, filled with water year round?early a miles worth when added together and my current cleared 1 acre around my home..

Which bring us to why the thread, I need a flail mower, using a rotary cutter was very hard to do between the trees, I managed to do it but it took way too long to do. Also I would like to have enough side overhang so I can mow the ditches, which have near zero banks, they are level with the ground, and the ground is soft-ish. I do not want a boom set up.

The Land pride Flail from Kubota is far too expensive. My budget is three thousand-ish.

I want a new mower; not used. I have narrowed down the players to be Bestco, Woodmax, Del morino (learned that was what land-pride painted, I mean imported, for their previous models here on this site.)
I want to do the first cut in all areas with this flail mower and then maintain all the acreage as well for the next five years when I will be selling all but the six acres for my new home. After that who knows. So I am looking for the best bang for the buck flail mower for my usage. Thoughts and recommendations appreciated within the constraints of budget and tractor.

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Hello and good evening dturco,

The landPride flails were actually Maschio units under the tan paint but that is in the past now sadly.

The orchard and vineyard shredders are nothing at all like the boom mounted highway mowers.

The smallest orchard and vineyard flail shredders with cast hammers would seem to give you the most usable mower for your current
and future needs as they are small in size and with your new mule they will not cause a balance problem as long as you have the rears loaded.


You will have to call for prices and find the nearest dealers for Del Morino, Maschio and Peruzzo-which is Iowa Farm Equipment.

With your price limits you may have difficulty finding a used JD 25A, 290 or 390 but its worth looking for a used unit as they are built very well.

Its also a good idea to check the auction sites as dealers have sales on excess inventory and there are also many dispersal sales and auctions to look at.

Paying a finders fee to an auction house would also be a good idea if at all possible.

Short of renting a small dozer for a couple of weeks to clear the land or hiring a forestry mower to do the work you are limited with your options.

 

[dturco]

Leonz Thank you for the reply. I noticed you did not mention woodmax or bestco in your response. They fit the budget, do Mascio Peruzzo or Delmorino come in around 3K-ish?

I bought the Kubota because the prices I was quote for a forestry machine to go in were close to two years worth of payments on the L3560!

 

[geblackwell]

Mr leonz

I visited a Woodcraft store. I presented them with photos of flail mower knives. They said there was no way that a micromark utility sharpener would hold up to sharpening these knives. They indicated that these sharpeners were to be used on fine wood working tools such as a plane iron, knife edge, chisel, or lathe tools. Because the wheel turns so slow and is uses a fine grit, it would take for ever to sharpen any quantity of cutters. They said it would be a complete waist of money to purchase this if this is what I was going to use it on.

Why couldn't you use a side arm grinder with a flapper wheel like I uses on my lawn mower and bush hog?

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Thank you

 

[Boxman]

Mr leonz

I visited a Woodcraft store. I presented them with photos of flail mower knives. They said there was no way that a micromark utility sharpener would hold up to sharpening these knives. They indicated that these sharpeners were to be used on fine wood working tools such as a plane iron, knife edge, chisel, or lathe tools. Because the wheel turns so slow and is uses a fine grit, it would take for ever to sharpen any quantity of cutters. They said it would be a complete waist of money to purchase this if this is what I was going to use it on.

Why couldn't you use a side arm grinder with a flapper wheel like I uses on my lawn mower and bush hog?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you

Yes you can. An angle grinder with a flap disk is way faster, way easier and much preferred over a tiny, slow, fine grit water wheel made for sharpening chisels and plane irons.

 

[hunt4570]

Yes you can. An angle grinder with a flap disk is way faster, way easier and much preferred over a tiny, slow, fine grit water wheel made for sharpening chisels and plane irons.

And why a flap disc as opposed to a grinding disc?

 

[aczlan]

And why a flap disc as opposed to a grinding disc?

Less heat and a little slower at taking material off. Easier to control and avoid overheating the knives.

Aaron Z

 

[bruceha2000]

Sorry, didn't get the joke. I am guy with accent, too deep for me.

If you are referring to:
"As for Betstco no longer offering flail mower knives that hoovers as "Bucky Cat" from the "Get Fuzzy" comic strip would say."
Hoover is a brand of vacuum cleaner. In fact in England they generically call all brands of vacuum cleaners Hoover. Hoover is also a verb, as in "I'm going to hoover the rug". Now what does a vacuum cleaner do? It sucks up dirt. So when Bucky says something "hoovers", he means, in this case the fact that Betstco no longer sells knives, sucks.

If that is not what you were referring to then ... NEVERMIND!

Sodamo Thank you for the response, tractor is 60" wide I was contemplating using 68" or 72" hydraulic shift so I could keep the Tires further away from the ditches. I am mildly concerned abut HP but not too much I think the tractor can turn the larger implements with out much trouble.

Your tractor is on the low side of PTO HP for a Woodmaxx 78H, they spec 30-65 and your tractor is 29.5 if gear, 28 if HST. I was going to get that one but called the sales people to ask about knives vs hammers and was talked down to the FM-62H at 20-45 PTO HP. My tractor has only 24.7 PTO HP. I figured I could just run slower and get one more foot per pass but he thought otherwise. Given the 78H is $500 more than the 62H, clearly he wasn't trying to get more money out of me, wanted me to be happy with what I bought.

I haven't used it yet (got it in March) because though it is supposed to be Cat I quick hitch compliant, the vertical distance between upper and lower pins (F1) is Cat III, they don't even make a Cat III flail so I have no idea how they screwed this up. The F1 distance for Cat II is the same as Cat I (15"). They are looking into it. I'm sure I could run it directly attached to the 3 PT but at 700 pounds, I don't want to try to wrestle it into position. I'd have to get more than "close enough", my 3 point's lower link arms are not extendable.

I visited a Woodcraft store. I presented them with photos of flail mower knives. They said there was no way that a micromark utility sharpener would hold up to sharpening these knives. They indicated that these sharpeners were to be used on fine wood working tools such as a plane iron, knife edge, chisel, or lathe tools. Because the wheel turns so slow and is uses a fine grit, it would take for ever to sharpen any quantity of cutters. They said it would be a complete waist of money to purchase this if this is what I was going to use it on.

Why couldn't you use a side arm grinder with a flapper wheel like I uses on my lawn mower and bush hog?

I was made aware of Knife Sharpeners and Tool Sharpeners - Work Sharp Outdoor while watching some YouTube videos recently. Their sales people say the "Ken Onion Edition Knife & Tool Sharpener" can be used to sharpen lawn mower blades so I would expect it would work for flail knives. I've not bought one yet, having just heard about it but I thought I'd put it out in case anyone has used them and can pass on any info. I've been sharpening the 3 blades on my garden tractor's deck with hand files, it is getting old.

 

[hunt4570]

I was made aware of Knife Sharpeners and Tool Sharpeners - Work Sharp Outdoor while watching some YouTube videos recently. Their sales people say the "Ken Onion Edition Knife & Tool Sharpener" can be used to sharpen lawn mower blades so I would expect it would work for flail knives. I've not bought one yet, having just heard about it but I thought I'd put it out in case anyone has used them and can pass on any info. I've been sharpening the 3 blades on my garden tractor's deck with hand files, it is getting old.

I have the work sharp sharpener, not the Ken Onion one, but there is not much difference. I will say they work great for pocket knives , kitchen knives and the like, even done my machete with it. I think it would be to light duty for lawnmower blades, and too hard to hold it and a flail blade at the same time (I have the Y blades). I suppose if you took the time to put the flail blades in a vice to hold them it would work ok, just take forever. And I do my mower blades with my angle grinder.. easiest way I've found..

 

[John0829]

Well the rain they were calling for did not develop so I got started late this afternoon on flipping the slicer pairs, seems they had been flipped before but many (not done yet) had significantly less wear on the trailing side. Also several were bent, so I used a rosebud to heat and straighten them out then retempered. I setup the belt sander next to the mower and started taking one set off at a time, sharpen the best side and put them back.

Looks like I need to invest in a new set of slicers but before doing that I want to see if the cut improves with the sharpened slicers at least a little. Also it does not appear there are vary many sources for them, at least not like the 917 models. And I did figure out the 918H 72" is a rebadged Maletti, model FM180.

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Hello and good morning John0829,


The cutting edges are pretty dull john, I would flip the side slicer pairs and see how
well they look. you may just luck out and have a good set of edges on the opposite side.

 

[CADplans]

WOOT!!,, Flail Season has started,,, :thumbsup:

 

[Boxman]

Less heat and a little slower at taking material off. Easier to control and avoid overheating the knives.

Aaron Z

Exactly!

 

[Kiotidriver]

So lets get back to the way these things are adjusted to mow. I have the Caroni also so I have a hole or a slot to hook the top link to. I've tried both and not sure how much difference it makes.. AND apparently having the skids at the same height/level as the roller is not correct either and I have the grooves all over the place to prove it.
So how bout a tutorial/discussion on how AND why everyone adjusts and hooks up their flail..

thanks...

Below I describe my way to set the height of my Caroni flail mower. I do not pretend that is the only way or the right way, but it works for me:
Assuming the skids and the bottom of the roller of the mower are on the same plane.
Firstly, I ensure that the tractor and the flail mower are on a level and hard ground. After attaching the Flail mower to the tractor, I set the top link length so the pin will center into the slot of the mower hitch frame (so the mower can tilt back and forth slightly when going over bumps).
Then I raise the mower to top position and slowly lower it down with the control lever until the skids barely touch the ground. Next I move the stop against the control lever and tighten it.
This will be the lowest position the mower could go, and it will (most of the time) prevent the skids to dig their way in the ground and making grooves in soft terrain.
See attached picture of control lever and the stop.

 

[Kiotidriver]

Nothing personal but I was thinking more of shame on California... again!

Hunt4570 you are right. After reading ericm979 posting with links related to Prop 65, I had a better understanding why company like ASC would refuse to ship to CA. So, I officially rescind my "shame on ASC!" comment.
However, me and other customers from California have bought equipment from them and it should be a duty for them to continue supporting us with spare parts. Many other companies have become Prop 65 compliant and I am sure ASC could do it.
Below is a quote from their web site:

Due to the changes in labeling requirements under California Proposition 65, Agri Supply Company (ASC) consumer products are currently not available for sale in the State of California. ASC and affiliates are working hard to obtain the data required to meet these new labeling requirements.
For more information on California Proposition 65, please visit www.p65warnings.ca.gov. We apologize for any inconvenience.

My only say to them: Please just work harder and faster and get it done.

 

[leonz]

Mr leonz

I visited a Woodcraft store. I presented them with photos of flail mower knives. They said there was no way that a micromark utility sharpener would hold up to sharpening these knives. They indicated that these sharpeners were to be used on fine wood working tools such as a plane iron, knife edge, chisel, or lathe tools. Because the wheel turns so slow and is uses a fine grit, it would take for ever to sharpen any quantity of cutters. They said it would be a complete waist of money to purchase this if this is what I was going to use it on.

Why couldn't you use a side arm grinder with a flapper wheel like I uses on my lawn mower and bush hog?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you

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You could but; the people you talked to are mistaken, and just plain wrong. The water is a both a lubricant and a coolant and the larger diameter thick stone will survive grinding the side slicers or the hammer knives without issue as long as it is done slowly to allow the water to cool and pull away what little metal shavings there are.

Soaking the side slicer knives in hot water with some dawn dish soap helps to break up the fine dust that becomes glued to the side slicers and if you have some of the 3M sanding sponges will help you a lot to get even more dirt off them. by doing this you help to prevent clogging of the fine grit wheel on the low speed wet well grinder as well.

Once you have the angle of the tool rest set at 37 degrees you can just leave it unless you want to sharpen other tools.

A wet rainy day is good for chores like this so I guess its up to you whether you buy one or not. Owning a wet well grinder for the last 30 years has let me keep every side slicer knife cutting edge on my flail mower sharp.

I use my Wen wet well grinder for sharpening my flail mower knives and its perfect as you have a very low rpm sanding drum with a fine grit and as it rotates at a low speed and pulls the water up with it towards the tool rest the entire drum is saturated with water and stays cool.

I have the tool rest set at 37 degrees for the proper grinding angle on the side slicer knife and it takes a minute or so to do both sides and you have a fine edge and a cool piece of metal with the proper edge that has not lost its temper.

It takes a few minute practice but once you get used to the low noise made by the grinding of a fine edge you will know when its sharp enough.

I want to help you not get in your way and I want you to succeed.

 

[hunt4570]

Well the rain they were calling for did not develop so I got started late this afternoon on flipping the slicer pairs, seems they had been flipped before but many (not done yet) had significantly less wear on the trailing side. Also several were bent, so I used a rosebud to heat and straighten them out then retempered. I setup the belt sander next to the mower and started taking one set off at a time, sharpen the best side and put them back.

Looks like I need to invest in a new set of slicers but before doing that I want to see if the cut improves with the sharpened slicers at least a little. Also it does not appear there are vary many sources for them, at least not like the 917 models. And I did figure out the 918H 72" is a rebadged Maletti, model FM180.

============================================================================================================

Hello and good morning John0829,


The cutting edges are pretty dull john, I would flip the side slicer pairs and see how
well they look. you may just luck out and have a good set of edges on the opposite side.

So I've been debating flipping mine.. how many bolts did you ruin doing this? I would think being so rusty and being dinged up from hitting stuff would take a toll on those bolts!

 

[hunt4570]

Below I describe my way to set the height of my Caroni flail mower. I do not pretend that is the only way or the right way, but it works for me:
Assuming the skids and the bottom of the roller of the mower are on the same plane.
Firstly, I ensure that the tractor and the flail mower are on a level and hard ground. After attaching the Flail mower to the tractor, I set the top link length so the pin will center into the slot of the mower hitch frame (so the mower can tilt back and forth slightly when going over bumps).
Then I raise the mower to top position and slowly lower it down with the control lever until the skids barely touch the ground. Next I move the stop against the control lever and tighten it.
This will be the lowest position the mower could go, and it will (most of the time) prevent the skids to dig their way in the ground and making grooves in soft terrain.
See attached picture of control lever and the stop.

So... that sound almost EXACTLY the way I do mine, but I end up with grooves from the skids all over the place! Trying to figure out how to avoid that. Now granted, my place is almost like beach sand so it is very soft so maybe I'm just stuck with the grooves!:confused3:

 

[troverman]

How often do you guys sharpen your flail knives? Does sharpening make that much of a difference?

 

[John0829]

Have not lost a single bolt, but I still have about a 1/3 of them left to do and hope to finish today if there is no rain. There is really more dirt than rust on the bolts and nothing a quick swipe with a wire hand brush does not knock off. Having an air ratchet has been a saving grace as there is a LOT of turning to remove and install fine thread bolts. Break them loose and then hit em' with the air drive speeds things up somewhat but removing and installing 48 bolts plus the time to sharpen the slicers is to say the least time consuming.

 

[leonz]

Well the rain they were calling for did not develop so I got started late this afternoon on flipping the slicer pairs, seems they had been flipped before but many (not done yet) had significantly less wear on the trailing side. Also several were bent, so I used a rosebud to heat and straighten them out then retempered. I setup the belt sander next to the mower and started taking one set off at a time, sharpen the best side and put them back.

Looks like I need to invest in a new set of slicers but before doing that I want to see if the cut improves with the sharpened slicers at least a little. Also it does not appear there are vary many sources for them, at least not like the 917 models. And I did figure out the 918H 72" is a rebadged Maletti, model FM180.



So I've been debating flipping mine.. how many bolts did you ruin doing this? I would think being so rusty and being dinged up from hitting stuff would take a toll on those bolts!

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My Mathews lawn genie uses a spring type knife hanger system that is does not require tools.


It does take a toll on the bolt heads and nuts depending on the type of mowing of course.

I always mention to the folks here that if they can, they should invest in fine thread allen head bolts, allen spring washers
and either 12 point box wrenches or a three eighths 12 point impact socket using a breaker bar to hold the nuts as you spin
the allen head bolt with a long handle allen wrench so they have a better time removing the hanger bolts and reduce filling
the swear jar.

you can use an O ring pick to clean out the allen head bolt before you push the wrench head in the hole and you know it will not slip out.

 

[geblackwell]

So now I have some questions:

With these sales people being "just plain wrong"
1. Could you provide a photo or video of your sharpening set-up?
2. How many flail owners use your method for sharpening cutters.
3. What make and model flail mower do you use?
4. What cutter and how many does your flail have?
5. How many acres do you maintain with your flail?

I realize these are a lot of questions, but I am searching for answers