Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[powerscol]

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Hello Keith,

What do you mean by a 150/160 model????? is this inches in cutting width or knife count?????????? Are you "in ditch mowing???? are you going to add liquid ballast, front weights and wheel weights to to road side wheels to help in balance and stability to counter the gravitational forces created by rear mounted boom mower?????????
Do not forget the far end of that flail mower is going to determine whether you stay upright or roll over.



The basic answer is whether you want a finish flail mower, brush flail mower or a vineyard and orchard flail mower for heavy prunings/thick stemmed brush cutting and grass. That is all there is to that question as you are looking at three/four types of Flail Mower Rotors with the finish flail mowers having the highest knife count, the Brush and and Vineyard and Orchard flail Mowers are in a tie for second place.

Before you even think about messing with chainging knifes on the mounting stations you have to know whether a duck foot/scoop knife can be interchanged with side slicers period. Cast hammer flail knives used in vineyard and orchard service can be used for lawn mowing but its a little rougher cut and if you would be happy with that great
invest in Land Pride Flail Mower which is a Maschio Flail Orchard and Vineyard Shredder under Land Pride Paint.

I just hope that Kubota does not throw these excellent flail mowers to the curb as they are designed and built very well as dual purpose flail mowers. These flail mower/ orchard and vineyard shredders also have a trash door that opens and locks in place and allows them to work in heavy brush without clogging.


As long as the Mule has a 20 plus higher horsepower in its frame size greater than the required horsepower of the finish flail mower.

In my fathers case;

He first used his 36 inch towed motorized lawn Genie Pick Up Mower with an 8 HP Briggs to create a mile long jogging path for my mother in the heavy brush in the pasture that he he used his Ford Jubilee to Mow 12 to 15 foot golden rod down to clear and reclaim the old pasture with JD 25A finish flail mower with a 7 foot cut SO>>>>........

go through the flail mower thread and come back and ask more questions go back to the thread and read some more and then ask more questions and then decide whether "a specific type of flail mower is best for you.

A finish flail mower with heat treated knives is a good dual purpose flail mower as long as you have more power 20 HP PLUS


A brush flail mower will mow brush and good sod with an acceptable finish

A dual purpose flail mower with formed hardened scoop knives will be unable to recut grass and brush

A "CAST HAMMER" hammer knife is a very good flail mower for brush and sod mowing but the finish will be rough



You have to decide what you can afford, what you can invest in and the finish you want for the brush or sod.

Do not expect to invest in a wide flail mower/shredder and use your current mule unless you want to crawl at your first mowing and mow at half cuts to have a 1-2 inch cut(providing it can lift it).

Look the Land Pride Flail Mower Shredders as they are an excellent dual purpose flail mower first then the Caroni scoop knive flail mowers and then look at the finish flail mowers with three rows of knives and then the finish flail mowers with four rows of knives.


I cant help you until you know what you can afford what type of finish you want and whether you want a dual purpose mower as flail mowers as currently available here in the United States are not a fits all flail mower.

If you don't have adequate power/frame size/low center of gravity/liquid ballast/wheel weights/front weights the point is moot.

Here is an example of what I am referring too in size.
Iowa Farm Equipment -- Maschio GIRAFETTA Series Ditch Bank Flail Mower
The 140 SE or SI and the 160SE or SI I dont know what the difference is between the SE and SI but they come with the Y blades. but a hammer kit is offered.

I have a 3600 lb tractor with filled R4 tires. I can handle my PZ 170 drum mower which is about the same weight (840 lbs) offset to the side without issue.

 

[leonz]

As long as you have the power and the lift capacity to handle the mower you will be fine with it.
The Maschio farm equipment build quality is very high and the safety standards for farm equipment
safety are much higher than the regulations here in the United States.

 

[gregharr55]

I could not open ur picture of the zerk but i will try again.
thanks
Greg

 

[IslandTractor]

I could not open ur picture of the zerk but i will try again.
thanks
Greg

I can open it on my computer and iphone. Try again.

You can also bend up the rear portion of the skid plate, it's functionally useless so it might as well be bent out of the way.

 

[kco]

Personally if I were OCD enough to weigh all the hammers, I'd drill a hole on the back to remove material & equalize weight. That way order wouldn't matter & everything would balance as well or better.

Weighing is easy with my wife's digital kitchen scale which measures to the nearest 0.5 gram.

I plan to adjust my new spare set by grinding the tops of the diagonal surface (shoulder?) running from the vertical stem to the scoop part of the blade. I have already done that with some of the spares. It does not take much time to grind off 30 grams. The new spare set ranges from 1,033 to 1,056 grams, so I'll make them around 1,033. I'll adjust the old set when I switch them with the new set. I did not do it this time because I wanted to get the trail mowed for access for firewood.

The weight range for my existing 36 blades (2 sets of 16 plus 4 spares) was 1,003 to 1,072. I don't know what range will cause a problem. I would not even have thought of it where it not for Jack Yuan's comment in the post referenced above. It seems like a good idea, and not a lot of effort, to get them fairly close in weight.

The main cause for bashing up my first set was inexperience in setting the mower for different conditions and in monitoring the cutting height on rough terrain. I've also gone back and removed protruding rocks on the places I mow most frequently. So repair grinding (as opposed to sharpening/touchup) effort should decrease. Even so, I will likely rotate the sets at least once per year.

 

[IslandTractor]

Weighing is easy with my wife's digital kitchen scale which measures to the nearest 0.5 gram.

I plan to adjust my new spare set by grinding the tops of the diagonal surface (shoulder?) running from the vertical stem to the scoop part of the blade. I have already done that with some of the spares. It does not take much time to grind off 30 grams. The new spare set ranges from 1,033 to 1,056 grams, so I'll make them around 1,033. I'll adjust the old set when I switch them with the new set. I did not do it this time because I wanted to get the trail mowed for access for firewood.

The weight range for my existing 36 blades (2 sets of 16 plus 4 spares) was 1,003 to 1,072. I don't know what range will cause a problem. I would not even have thought of it where it not for Jack Yuan's comment in the post referenced above. It seems like a good idea, and not a lot of effort, to get them fairly close in weight.

The main cause for bashing up my first set was inexperience in setting the mower for different conditions and in monitoring the cutting height on rough terrain. I've also gone back and removed protruding rocks on the places I mow most frequently. So repair grinding (as opposed to sharpening/touchup) effort should decrease. Even so, I will likely rotate the sets at least once per year.

I doubt 15-20 grams makes any difference. I run my Caroni TM1900 with knives that are mixed factory knives and clevises and also some flailmaster knives and clevises. The difference in weight for factory vs Flailmaster is more than 20 grams and yet the mower operates without vibration. When it vibrates I know I have lost a set of knives and clevis which must weight about half a pound. But an ounce (30g) or less is not likely to make any difference.

 

[gregharr55]

Thanks again Islandtractor. I understand the gist of ur idea. And its a good one. Thanks
Greg

 

[docsfarm]

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Hello docsfarm,

I see your about an hour south me. I hope you have recovered from the Little League World Series and things have slowed down a bit.


First and foremost remember that a hydro tractor will not give you all the power it has from the engine frame size as part of it will be using a substantial amount for the mules drive system in both 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive.

This leaves the rear power take off with a possible shortage of power for the rear power take off BUT as long as you maintain the mule and change both the air filters(Inner Safety Element and Outer Element) every 80 hours
you will lose very little power to intake air starvation(black smoke).

Do not pay any attention to the recommended hourly service periods for air filters. If you have a cyclone intake air pre-cleaner or can buy one from a Mahindra dealer all the better.

Look at the various brands of flail mowers in that size with hydraulic shift and without and decide which one to examine further and go from there.

You will need spare parts like side slicer knives and knife hangers if they are swivel mounted some brands use longer knives to eliminate extra hardware and the expense.



If your going to use the JD 390 for mowing ditches and lawn it will work fine you just have to know how to operate the mower so you get the best results.

Side Slicers will give you the best finish and you can go over it a second time if you want the grass clippings to dissolve faster AND the scoop knives will not do that for you-cur once and you cannot recut the green clippings.

You going to have to decide how versatile a mower you want first if you can afford a flail mower in that size and horsepower range.

A flail mower with hydraulic side shift gives you the opportunity to mow closely to buildings and trees with out damaging them as long as you mow slowly and put a bike flag on the far end-you can do this by mounting it on the bearing guard by drilling a hole in the strap iron over the flail mower rotor shaft end as long as it does not interfere with greasing the bearing every time you mow or after you mow.

1. Make sure your Mule can lift a 390 size and weight flail mower

2. a finish cut flail mower will mow both good sod and brush as long as you use the 540 RPM engine speed for the rear power take off for the flail mower.


If you intend to buy now you need to decide quickly as it may be 6 weeks before you have a mower to use unless a dealer has "a" flail mower of that width in stock.

What ever flail mower you choose or think you want and before you write a check or apply for a loan be sure to comeback and ask questions and then ask some more questions and then weed it some more and ask more questions.

Your going to have to understand why and how a flail mower works and when you see that fine carpet of clippings that allows you to mow to two inches in mowing height you will be glad you bought that flail mower.

FYI, Do not expect to mow a forest trail after a dozer or logger has gone through to open a path for you with this mower.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, Little League is gone and things are back to normal. Its a double edged sword... the city has 25,000 residents in it and for the final game, we will often have 40,000 in attendance!!! So things get crazy here during that time... But, I tell people it is one of the last pure things on the planet (aside from the various scandals). In general the kids just have fun playing. They Lose, They cry, and 10 minutes later they are laughing and carrying on. Hotdogs are still cheap. So is the soda. No smoking and obnoxious fans aren't tolerated. All the concessions run by volunteers. Really quite amazing. If you at all are a fan of the game, it really is worth a trip here!
Back to Flail mowers... I Was pretty set on a flail for my fields and a heavy duty rotary cutter for the woods (since you pointed out a flail is a bad idea in the woods... and then I realized that the CREP grasses have to be mown to 6 or 8" depending on the type of grass.... All of the flails I've looked at seem to top out at 5". Thoughts?

 

[leonz]

I guess its a case of what you think would work best. Check the Land Pride (Maschio) orchard and vineyard flail mowers they have three sizes in thier stable. I certainly hope that Kubota keeps them in the line up.

Sending you a PM

 

[nicko]

I know i saw this in one of the posts but could not find it. Those of u with caroni flail mowers, in which hole do u run the rear roller? I remeber also it was discussed about lack of access to the grease fittings.

I took a heavy hammer to the skid and bent juuuust enough to allow grease gun access.
It was easier than i expected it to be.

 

[kco]

I doubt 15-20 grams makes any difference. I run my Caroni TM1900 with knives that are mixed factory knives and clevises and also some flailmaster knives and clevises. The difference in weight for factory vs Flailmaster is more than 20 grams and yet the mower operates without vibration. When it vibrates I know I have lost a set of knives and clevis which must weight about half a pound. But an ounce (30g) or less is not likely to make any difference.

I think you are right. I haven't seen vibration on the mower with the blades ranging from 1021 to 1060 grams. Regardless, it is not much work to grind the sets to within a few grams and it seems like a good idea.

 

[SI2305]

A flail mower question:

I just recently posted that I am giving very serious thought to upgrading my JD2305 (18PTO HP) to a larger JD with 35hp (30PTO HP). I have gone so far as to get a quote from the dealer including the value of my current tractor and all of its assorted implements. That is all but my 48" Befco flail mower. The dealer stated that they just could not sell them in the past (stating they sat on the lot for 2 years) and that therefore he likely could not offer me much for it. I would like to get a replacement, but this partly hinges on selling the one I have. I would be willing to sell to anyone on this site as long as we could negotiate a fair price (it is in very good, almost new condition). The second issue would be the replacement. On the one hand, I could simply upgrade to the 72 inch Befco. I absolutely LOVE my current Befco flail mower so I see no problems with an even larger one. The only thing holding me back is that a 6 footer is not cheap and woodmaxx has some 6 foot flails that look quite nice, especially one with a hydraulic offset.

So my question to all would be if anyone has any direct comparison experience between Befco and Woodmaxx. I will say right now that the Befco is a VERY solidly built machine. How solid is Woodmaxx? The Woodmaxx is quite a bit cheaper but is this in any way indicative of the quality of the build?

Thanks in advance,

SI2305

 

[leonz]

If you have not looked at the Woodmax flail mowers yet you will see a stark contrast in build with the bolted side plates rather than having the side plate weldments connected to the flail mower shroud with continuous welds.

Keep your 48 inch Befco Flail Mower for mowing, do not sell it. You will be better off and you will have plenty of power with the new mule to operate the flail mower in heavy brush mowing and for mowing good sod at all times.

Just be sure to check that the "New" mule will lift the old mower and the old PTO shaft and not damage the old PTO shaft when fully raised as the lift arc may be shorter and may cause the PTO Stub shaft on the new mule and the mower gearbox to bind and break and be damaged.

It may be better for you to just invest in a JD quick hitch to carry the old 48 inch Befco Flail Mower for your use to avoid problems with the old PTO shaft and the new Mules lift arc as the quick hitch keeps it out and further away to reduce the arc of travel to prevent damaging the new mules PTO Stub and the current flail mower gear box.

 

[DieselBound]

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I just sent a PM to you. If I have asked you this before I apologize; are you on the Wenatchee side of King County or are you closer to Skykomish?

No. (my location shows up in my info)

I was really looking for comments/perspective on the type of cutter (and not an attack on the manufacturer using them).

 

[SI2305]

Leonz,

I have only seen pictures of Woodmaxx flail mowers from their website. I had been under the impression that they were a quality build, but as I understand you their build quality is substandard? Have you seen them in person? I was initially reluctant to buy the Befco simply because I was unsure if I had enough ponies on my PTO to make it useful. I can assure you that Befco flail mowers are extremely sturdily built. Is your perspective from seeing/using them in person or a judgement based on your acute observation of their pictures. Certainly I will keep the mower for a while as it is not a part of the trade value package. I imagine that using it will be a bit awkward as I will come nowhere near to cutting out my tires, but that is not a deal breaker by itself. Thanks for the input. If I do trade up I will be spending a pretty large sum of money and I want to ensure that it is well spent and not spend it on a potentially faulty/unreliable/poorly constructed implement.

Thanks for your input and I appreciate any other input you may have,

SI2305

 

[DieselBound]

If you have not looked at the Woodmax flail mowers yet you will see a stark contrast in build with the bolted side plates rather than having the side plate weldments connected to the flail mower shroud with continuous welds.

Keep your 48 inch Befco Flail Mower for mowing, do not sell it. You will be better off and you will have plenty of power with the new mule to operate the flail mower in heavy brush mowing and for mowing good sod at all times.

Just be sure to check that the "New" mule will lift the old mower and the old PTO shaft and not damage the old PTO shaft when fully raised as the lift arc may be shorter and may cause the PTO Stub shaft on the new mule and the mower gearbox to bind and break and be damaged.

It may be better for you to just invest in a JD quick hitch to carry the old 48 inch Befco Flail Mower for your use to avoid problems with the old PTO shaft and the new Mules lift arc as the quick hitch keeps it out and further away to reduce the arc of travel to prevent damaging the new mules PTO Stub and the current flail mower gear box.

Why are bolts bad? What types of failure could one expect to encounter with bolts vs welds?

Around where I live people have been driving over HUGE metal structures -bridges- that are essentially BOLTED together (rivets and or bolts). Should they panic because bolts and rivets are being used? Bridges can be subjected to immense stresses.

I would be more receptive to an argument that considers the roller or the drive mechanism, as these things, I'd think, take on more stresses.

I personally have no illusions that a flail mower can stand up to (or should be subjected to) the same sort of treatment that rotary cutters are subjected to.

 

[sidecarist]

Woodmaxx end plates are not bolted on they are welded. I asked here and in other places about the woodmaxx and didn't find a direct reference from anyone that owned one. Nevertheless I did order one and expect it to arrive the first or second week of October.

For me the choice was a combination of feature (rear trash door) and price based. When I get it I'll post results etc and be willing to offer my opinion from real life use.

Time will tell.

 

[DieselBound]

Leonz,

I have only seen pictures of Woodmaxx flail mowers from their website. I had been under the impression that they were a quality build, but as I understand you their build quality is substandard? Have you seen them in person? I was initially reluctant to buy the Befco simply because I was unsure if I had enough ponies on my PTO to make it useful. I can assure you that Befco flail mowers are extremely sturdily built. Is your perspective from seeing/using them in person or a judgement based on your acute observation of their pictures. Certainly I will keep the mower for a while as it is not a part of the trade value package. I imagine that using it will be a bit awkward as I will come nowhere near to cutting out my tires, but that is not a deal breaker by itself. Thanks for the input. If I do trade up I will be spending a pretty large sum of money and I want to ensure that it is well spent and not spend it on a potentially faulty/unreliable/poorly constructed implement.

Thanks for your input and I appreciate any other input you may have,

SI2305

I'm waiting on a more objective assessment from/by sidecarist. Maybe you'd be willing to buy a bit more time and wait as well? I think he's due to receive his Woodmaxx shortly. Yes, there's the issue of longevity, but let's face it, if we had all held back because of this then we'd never have gotten exposure to new/good manufacturers: Woodmaxx itself was once new, and it became the leader in woodchippers; I don't think they manufacturer the flails, but I'm pretty sure they're spec'ing them- are their specifications quality? I'd think that they don't want to risk their name with sub-par stuff.

I'm NOT advocating for Woodmaxx. I AM advocating for reasonable reasoning. I want to see the data myself. How others use things, and what things one should look out for is very helpful; but when it gets down to telling me what I should or shouldn't do or buy is where I draw the line. No one knows exactly what someone's needs are. And life is if anything, about risk.

 

[sidecarist]

I ordered the woodmaxx because it appears to meet my requirements. I wish I had a direct reference but it isn't available. I did research their reputation overall and it's quite good. They have been responsive by email and phone.

It appears to me to be well built, I am not a flail mower expert but will offer my real world observations after I get it.

Currently it is on the water with a port date of September 28. There will a week or two of shipping, etc before I get it.

 

[powerscol]

OK I am narrowing my choices. There is the Peruzzo brand Elk Cross Series and Fox Cross series Ditch Bank Flail Mowers and a Maschio Girafetta 160SI . I did find out the difference between the SI and SE The SE the gearbox is outboard of the mower body and the SI is inborad in the traditional spot. Is anyone running the Peruzzo brand units? There is only about $500 between the three of them.

Thanks for any help