jumping through hoops

[Inspector507]

<font color=blue>.....If your house starts on fire because of substandard electrical wiring, are you saying this is not the cities, or your neighbors, or the firefighters, concern? It's "legislating against stupidity?" .....</font color=blue>

AND your insurance may not pay off either.

 

[Inspector507]

Whew.......took me a long time to post all that. Sure hope I didn't pi$$ anyone off but, I take my chosen profession very seriously. Any of the aspects of building a home or building if not done properly can impact lives you may not think about. If the house you re-wired(un-inspected) caught fire at Christmas time with a house full of relatives, could you live with that? There again, just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Alan L.]

Yea, I'm just blowing hot air. I suppose electrical inspections are a good thing, but I don't like city governments messing with my business. No inspections are required in my rural location, so it won't be an issue when I build. There could be some inspections by the lender however.

We don't get to talk politics on here anymore, so I'm just venting about something.

 

[Chuck52]

I'm hoping my inspector turns out to be as reasonable as you sound. I've heard from a friend who's opinion I have reason to trust that he, at least sometimes seems to err on the unreasonable side, but I'll get my own read shortly. For my present problem, if he'll let me use an existing, and not overloaded, circuit, with an appropriate gfi outlet, I'll be happy. If on the other hand, he insists I pull separate gfi circuits from the master panel to each of my dry crawl spaces, I think I'll have a legitimate complaint, at least about the timing of finding this code error. I bet many problems with code enforcement have to do with these interpretation things. Are my crawl spaces too close to the water table? If my basement weren't right beside them, and dry, I might be more inclined to install sump pumps just for peace of mind. However, with the rain we've had lately, and dry crawl spaces, I'm not going to be too happy about what I see as additional unnecessary expense.

Chuck

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color=blue>"If your house starts on fire because of substandard electrical wiring..."</font color=blue>

For what it's worth, the single leading cause/origin of residential fires in the U.S. is electrical so that's not a far-fetched concept.

 

[Knight9]

Alan,

I'm all for inspections and building codes as it seems just plain safe to me. What irritates me is the "pre-building" permit garbage. I have 10 acres and yet I had to jump through hoops to fit my house on the land appropriately due to setbacks etc. Now I want to build a double detached garage. The hassle I'm going through for them to allow me to put the garage where I want it is really ridiculous.

Once I get approval, they can inspect the building to their hearts content! I'm glad they do.

Kevin

 

[hazmat]

Jerry,

I wish you were in charge in my town. The previous owner put a pool in. The fence wasn't up to code. We worked out a credit towards the purchase price & I was then responible to bring the fence up to code. So I did.

The inspector came today & looked at the fence, opened one gate (of 4) and asked me if the doors from the house had alarms on them. I said yes, he said you're all set.

Wasn't a very thorough job if you ask me. He could have fulley checked everything in about 5 more minutes. Makes me wonder what might be "wrong" with my house.

 

[Inspector507]

Hazmat,
Sometimes inspectors are overloaded with work. Some might check 1 gate out 4. But he probably had an eyeball on the other 3 as he walked in.
A question I get all the time when out doing inspections is...."What exactly are you looking for when you walk in here?".......It's really hard to answer that. If they only knew how extensive the codes we use are. Just in looking at one little room addition there are probably hundreds of pages of our code book that relates to that new room of his/hers. There are numerous times we have let non-life safety issues slide by, because no one will get hurt. But we can also tell whether that contractor even tried to meet code. There are a lot of give and takes in this business, but the most important issue is, will anyone get hurt?
I KNEW what was wrong with my house when I bought it, or at least I thought I did /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif. But I got the previous owner to admit there were problems (which I could fix) and we settled on a good price.

 

[bmabe]

Jerry -

I'll certainly agree with you that some are overworked and then ... there are the few who are not the brightest bulbs on the string of lights. I put on an addition about 12 years ago and upgraded the electrical service from 100 amps to a new 200 amp panel. New location, too, to make the branch runs to the addition easier. Had to have the new work inspected before the utility could disconnect the old and connect the new service. The inspector (from a regional inspection service company that our town now uses) came out and checked my work: ground OK, feeder from new to old panel OK, panelboard OK. "Hmmm, let's check the GFCI at the panelboard." He pulls out his circuit checker and gets no LED's lighting up. Pulls it out, plugs it in again ... still nothing. After a three minutes of this, I quietly said "This is a pre hook up inspection - the panel's not connected yet until you sign off." "Oh. OK."

Probably had been a long day for him.

Barry Mabery

 

[chim]

That reminds me of something that happened a long time ago. I worked for an electrical contractor who did mostly new home wiring jobs at the time. Someone called the office and got the secretary all upset because there had been a fire at one of the houses we were working on. The Fire Marshall had been to the scene, and declared the cause to be electrical. It had originated in the joists in the basement. When we returned to the shop that night, she broke the bad news, and we looked at each other and laughed. We had only completed the rough-in wiring, and were weeks away from having the power turned on. The Fire Marshall revisited, and proclaimed the cause to be spontaneous combustion. We figured it was probably the plumber................chim

 

[Chuck52]

I imagine there are "humorous" anecdotes about any conceivable occupation. No doubt Jerry gets tired of hearing those about his profession, just as our lawyer members must tire of the many barbs that come their way. I'm pretty safe..."did you hear the one about the dumba$$ crystallographer who...." just doesn't come up very often. That said, a friend of mine did have to install an electrical outlet along a banister railing because the inspector insisted it was a "wall". I know the rule about spacing receptacles along walls serves a useful purpose, but once again there are interpretations involved. Receptacles on adjacent walls served the entire balcony very well in this case, but the inspector could not be convinced and insisted on an ugly, useless, never to be used, receptacle in the floor along the railing. I think it was the same guy I have to ask for a favor.

Chuck

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color=blue>"I'm pretty safe..."did you hear the one about the dumba$$ crystallographer who...."</font color=blue>

chrystallography

Main Entry: chrys·tall·og·ra·phy
Pronunciation: -fE
Function: noun
Etymology: French chrystallographie, from crystall- stripper, exotic dancer + -graphie -graphy
Date: circa 1847
: the science or art of sketching or drawing strippers/exotic dancers named Chrystall (modern- photograph, film, videotape)
- chrys·tall·o·graph·ic /"kris-tel'-o-gra-fik/ also chrys·tall·o·.graph.i.cal adjective
- chrys·tall·o·graph·i·cal·ly /-fi-k(&-)lE/ adverb

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Mike_Dumond]

Hey, where do I apply for that job????? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Chuck52,
Hate to break this to you but, according to the NEC, a railing is considered a wall space that needs outlets. This was debated heavily during one of the proposal-comment stages of a code cycle. The issue is that people DO use that space a lot. They like to set tables along that railing. The reason behind the outlets being placed per code is that all lamps, TVs, whatever all have cords that are 6' in length. No matter where you set that lamp or piece of utilization equipment along that "wall", it will reach an outlet without the need for an extension cord.

 

[Chuck52]

Jerry,

I'm not surprised at the definition of a railing as a wall, and yes, I agree that in many instances tables, etc are placed along railings and an outlet would be desireable. I think you noted earlier that the codes are subject to the interpretation of the inspectors, at least to some extent. In my friends case, the railing location is such that placing a table there would not be likely. It would have been nice if the inspector could/would have used his discretion here and not insisted in an outlet which will not be used. I deal with EPA rules all the time, and <font color=red>everyone</font color=red> knows what a pain some of them can be if inforced to the exact letter of the regulation. I know that common sense need not apply, but it sure is nice when it sneaks in there anyway.

Crystallography....that definition sure make me want to go to the International Union of Crystallography meeting in Geneva this year to see if I can get it officially recognized. What a hero I would be to my fellow crystallographers!

Chuck

 

[Inspector507]

Chuck,
Another situation that makes homeowners flaming mad, is when I tell them they need to cut an outlet in the side of their $1000 cherry Island Cabinet in the kitchen. Their response is "I don't want it and I'll NEVER use it".
We have to think of the next owner of the house and how much damage the could do with an extension cord trying to use a mixer or what-not on the counter. My former boss always responded to the above situation by saying, " Ok we'll just draw up some paperwork that says after you die, your family will have the house torn down". What an a$$. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
By the way, there are always appeals that can happen. If it's residential, they can appeal to our Building Commision who is very, very liberal as to what they give away. If it's commericial they can appeal to the State Board of Appeals. At least in my locale they can.