Question on deck build sitting on ground

[Sigarms]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

From the beginning, the house was laid out kind of quirky in design in our opinion when we bought it, but it was the land that sold us on the place to buy, not the house (if we ever had kids, this was the place to raise them in our opinion). The house however did fit our needs perfectly with a furnished basement in the plan that my father could move in with us when he was ready, and now that he's passed, my wifes mother has that same option now that she is getting older and her husband has passed, although that may delay our timeframe on when we decide to downsize, which will happen.

I do like the idea to forget the third deck and extend the roof, but we're past that point now with the lumber showing up tomorrow or Tuesday.

Will ask the contractor about a sprial staircase, as it was an option that didn't cross our minds.

That said, worst case, we'll be fine if everything goes as planned with the third deck as is without stairs.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

What's the view from 3rd floor? If it's nice it certainly wouldn't be that expensive for a small balcony I wouldn't think.
Sort of like this (as drawn by a slow 3 year old) .

 

[2manyrocks]

I, too, thought about a small balcony, but the problem is the joists run in such a way that there's no easy way of supporting a balcony without spanning over to the brick support columns. By the time he does that, the balcony becomes the size of a deck. Since he doesn't use the third floor deck anyway, I can appreciate the reluctance to spend money rebuilding another one.

However, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to just leave the space previously used as a third floor deck blank because that will look odd.

Even though lumber has evidently been ordered, I suspect the contractor could still add more lumber to frame a roof unless the beams that have been ordered would be too small to support the additional weight of a roof structure. I'd probably call the contractor to discuss whether a roof could still be added now or later to what is about to be built without prematurely closing off future options to make the best use of this space.

 

[Sigarms]

What's the view from 3rd floor? If it's nice it certainly wouldn't be that expensive for a small balcony I wouldn't think.
Sort of like this (as drawn by a slow 3 year old) .View attachment 831696

That 3rd deck by the bedroom will still stay.

View from the bedroom door. The two trees with the red line will be taken down next year. They're are bigger than they look and we already had to large ones taken down closer to the deck (on the right hand side).

Lumber will be here tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm not going to be that client that changes things up in a major way at the last moment in time (per extending the roof). Worst case, a spiral case could be in the future if we want a way down to the lower deck and it could be planned that way early next year which will give us time to think about it.

Perhaps not ideal, but as mentioned before, blessed to have such a first world homeowner crisis.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I really love the house and view. You have so many possibilities. That concrete pad is so nice.

 

[Sigarms]

I really love the house and view. You have so many possibilities. That concrete pad is so nice.

A very sincere thank you.

We've actually put a lot of work into the house over the years, but as mentioned, it was the property that sold us on it and not the house alone.

This is why no matter what we do from on out, we aren't going to beat ourselves over the stairs or lack of stairs down from that 3rd deck.

End of the day, we are budget people. We thought price wise, the guy doing the work was more than compeitive vs comapanies who were just going to run wood at the basement level deck. We were looking at having the side door to the garage to replace our old wooden steps with cement, but end of the day, over our original budget.

What I'm thinking is talking with the contractor is about spiral stairs next year and get feedback from him on his opinion. He can lay out that 3rd deck with that in mind if we go that route. As is, up to this point, we have been more than happy with his work, really, would be happy even without stairs because we don't really use them from the bedroom down to the main level deck behind the first floor.

 

[Sigarms]

However, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to just leave the space previously used as a third floor deck blank because that will look odd.

100% agree with the odd comment.

The previous third floor deck only came out about 8 ' away from the house (14' wide against the house). The new 3rd floor deck is going to come out to 12' from the house (to now run directly under the columns) but will only go about 8-10' feet in width across the house (electrical outlet up there on the wall that we want to ensure you can still use if wanted). Ironcially seems to gain some square footage with the rebuild.

 

[2manyrocks]

Sometimes a subtle change can make a big difference in real life usability. I know we aren't discussing doors, but as an example, the way a door swings in/out or from left to right, for example, can sometimes really improve functionality without much increase in cost.

If you are really thinking about spiral stairs, you could save yourself some money by making that decision before paying to build wooden stairs and then having to pay to remove them, too. Change orders are also easier to implement before materials get ordered, delivered, installed as you already know.

That spectacular view is a major asset. I believe it's worth the effort to really think this project through.

 

[Sigarms]

That spectacular view is a major asset. I believe it's worth the effort to really think this project through.

The view is one reason my wife and I agree we do want to keep that third deck (added the oddity if it wasn’t there).

Wooden stairs are out of the question now from the third deck for my wife due to the kitchen view.

Walking out the basement and looking up, I might have enough room to run a spiral staircase before the kitchen window straight down.

This is something I can discuss when that deck is being built and even plan for next year if need be.

At this point we’re fine with nothing per access off that deck ourselves, so anything else is icing on the cake.

I will be the first to admit that down in the basement looking out, the cement is 100 times better looking.

 

[2manyrocks]

The cement is a game changer. Discuss the upper levels with your contractor some more, and you might come up with some more game changers that transform how you use and enjoy your terrific space.

 

[Sigarms]

The cement is a game changer. Discuss the upper levels with your contractor some more, and you might come up with some more game changers that transform how you use and enjoy your terrific space.

The house has served us well with 2 boys and my father living in the basement. Now that our last son is shipping out next Monday and it's just the wife and I, it's just too much house to enjoy for 2 people. As mentioned, MIL will play a pivotal role on our timeline.

Besides that, like I've mentioned, we really aren't "Deck people" LOL (we ripped down that lower one where you can see the straw laid after it was taken out).

"Perfect" last home will be single story no more than 2-3 bedroom 2 bath (added room for guests), but after this process, will definately look for overhang cover off the back porch/deck for cover with a cement deck. Now that it's here (lower cement deck) I see the difference. As mentioned is was included in original quote from this contractor, so it's still within budget.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've never seen a spiral stair case that I liked to climb up and down. I understand that they take up a smaller footprint, but that just means that they are a necessary evil. If you don't have to have a spiral staircase, I sure wouldn't spend all that money on one!!!

As a contractor, I appreciate changes to a job that will make the finished project better. My goals are to make money, get pictures of a really nice looking project, and have clients wanting to tell their friends to hire me. Just about every job that I do for a client, we change something on it. I'd be surprised if your Contractor hasn't already thought about converting that upper deck into a roof and sealing off the door.

In my opinion, converting that upper deck to a roof would be pretty easy. You'd have to return some of the lumber, and buy different materials, but overall, it would be easier then building a deck "AND" some stairs. It would be a little more work then just a deck, but not very much more.

 

[2manyrocks]

With a view like you have, I'd have a comfortable porch swing if not for you and your wife, at least for your MIL.

 

[Sigarms]

I've never seen a spiral stair case that I liked to climb up and down. I understand that they take up a smaller footprint, but that just means that they are a necessary evil. If you don't have to have a spiral staircase, I sure wouldn't spend all that money on one!!!

As a contractor, I appreciate changes to a job that will make the finished project better. My goals are to make money, get pictures of a really nice looking project, and have clients wanting to tell their friends to hire me. Just about every job that I do for a client, we change something on it. I'd be surprised if your Contractor hasn't already thought about converting that upper deck into a roof and sealing off the door.

In my opinion, converting that upper deck to a roof would be pretty easy. You'd have to return some of the lumber, and buy different materials, but overall, it would be easier then building a deck "AND" some stairs. It would be a little more work then just a deck, but not very much more.

Eddie

I know what you mean about a sprial stair case. Giving it more and more thought, my hesitation is growing just for this one application just as a cure all for access from that 3rd deck.

I do think the contractor was right in wanting to extend the 3rd deck to the left and widen the basement deck even more to the left, but budget constraints wouldn't allow that (added my wife didn't really want that one tree removed as I had mentioned).

So I have a better understanding of what your line of thinking is, see attached (pic I took when I just replaced wood on the deck 15 years ago and added those stairs). What I'm failing to envision is how you tie the the top roof line (red) to the second roof line (light blue).

The distance from the exterior wall from the bedroom to the end of the deck (yellow line) is roughly 12'. Are you talking about extending only a portion of the top roof (red line) out further, and how far? Or are you taking about extending the entire top roof out? (again,red line)

The purple line represents how the deck is going to width, but it's going to add about 6' in length away from the house to go out to the end of the deck (yellow line).

Like I said in the past, when it comes to woodworking and building /cutting with wood, I'm not the guy with the brains leading the work.

Also keep in mind, my wife actually likes that 3rd deck from the bedroom even though we don't really use it that much.

 

[Sigarms]

With a view like you have, I'd have a comfortable porch swing if not for you and your wife, at least for your MIL.

We moved my fathers old "basket" swing to the bottom deck as well as a hammock, and added some tiki torches for light and the potential bugs. Also got him sirus radio so he could listen to his "oldies" in the evening while laying outside on the deck steps from the basement (which we removed now, but since the cement deck now extends 4' out past the columns of the deck, could do with the MIL). Being he moved down when he was 86 and he had what he called "cold bones", he really did love the warmer weather down here to stay outside.

MIL is 75 now. Like my father, wasn't certain how long she would last after her spouse died, but she's doing well. She actually has a lot of friends from church, and keeps busy for the most part, so at this point, no clue what the future holds to where she may end up. One reason why if we do move, house will be a single level with 3 bedrooms, one for her and one for a potential guest.

I'm blessed. My wife reminded me the other day that her parents lived with us for close to two years living in the basement, when they moved down from Vermont and were looking for a house to buy. I honestly don't remember my in laws living with us, and I apparently wasn't in a rush to get them out LOL

One of the many reasons why this house has served us well. 6 people and you still had space. Issue now is with just the two of us here, lot bigger than we need for the extended future (another 20 years).

 

[oosik]

That's a mighty big house - Sig. My house here - 1550 SF. Single level - 3 bedroom, 2 bath. Built in 1982 with an eye to eventual retirement. Actually - I did quit working in '82 and did retire. Totally fed up with gov working conditions. We finally realized with a few mods - we were financially independent.

Anyhow - my suggestion. That ground level area. Do it with something that will be easily "dug up" if needed. Gravel or pavers. Let the future owners spend the big bucks if they want to make a change.

Your not using the area and likely it will not substantially increase the value - if you spend big bucks.

 

[EddieWalker]

My thought is to just replace the deck with a roof. No bigger. Use the existing rim joist that you are going to use for the deck, and use that for the ceiling joists. It doesn’t tie into the existing roof, it stands out on its own to provide shade and a dry place during a storm.

 

[2manyrocks]

Unless I am mistaking what Eddie is saying, the purple lined deck could be rebuilt as a slightly sloped roof instead of being rebuilt as a flat deck area.

If you rebuilt it as a roof, then you'd likely want to eliminate the two windows and the door above it so it doesn't look odd, but install a window that could be opened for fire escape onto the deck/roof to climb down someway to the second floor deck to reach the stairs.

One advantage to keeping the third floor deck as a deck is it at least gives you a staging area to get any upstairs dogs out of the house in the event of a fire although I'm not sure how you'd get them off the third floor deck thereafter unless you were prepared in advance with a sling and rope system to lower them down.

 

[Sigarms]

My thought is to just replace the deck with a roof. No bigger. Use the existing rim joist that you are going to use for the deck, and use that for the ceiling joists. It doesn’t tie into the existing roof, it stands out on its own to provide shade and a dry place during a storm.

Ok, now I understand.

What I don't like about that option is we still have the door and window to deal with, and honestly, even if the deck stayed the exact same size, don't think we would actually use it as a roof outside on the deck if that makes sense because it's no covering the entire deck if we have rain.

Added, you still have a "roof", but no deck to go outside on. I understand we don't use that third floor deck that much, but it does offer a nice view and I don't think my wife would believe it would be a good return to go that route.

Like I said, 1st world problems...

 

[Sigarms]

Anyhow - my suggestion. That ground level area. Do it with something that will be easily "dug up" if needed. Gravel or pavers. Let the future owners spend the big bucks if they want to make a change.

Your not using the area and likely it will not substantially increase the value - if you spend big bucks.

Day late and a dollar short

After Eddies comment about cement and talking with the contractor who was doing the job, we did lay cement on the ground. In all honesty, like it very much and my wife agrees. As mentioned, this contractor was compeititve with the cement vs others quoting wood deck on the ground, so we're still on budget on what we were willing to pay (I got 6 quotes, not like I didn't try to get options, believe me).