International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going

   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going #61  
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#62  
Thanks for the link.

We went to O'Reiley this evening and got a couple to try. One has 2 terminals, the other has 4. I was thinking maybe the 4 terminal one would have different resistance values. However, it looks like the pairs are individual and dont connect. I can check with my multimeter tomorrow.

When I dug in to the distributor clocking earlier I took the valve cover off to see the valves and lifters. I lined up the #1 piston on the compression stroke, clocked the fan belt pulley on the crankshaft to TDC, and guess what - the rotor was pointed to the #4 cylinder/3ord to fire. Go figure.

Needless to say, I got that corrected.

WIth the clocking correct I was able to get the engine to run a bit. Major milestone.

The down side to it is I found the ballast resistor was not working very well.

With my relay method I was able to get battery voltage to the ignition coil with the starter engaged. However, the engine would die without the starter engaged. Checking the voltage it was under 2v through the ballast resistor.

So I jumped the leads going to the ballast resistor to get straight battery voltage with ignition on and I wasnt having any luck at all.

These are the ballast resistors I got to try:



 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going #63  
A sneaky way to get 12V to the coil would be to run a wire from the terminal on the side of the starter solenoid that energizes the solenoid. That way you only have 12V to coil when engaging the starter. In the schematic, I think I'm seeing a wire running from part #61 to the input side of the coil. Not sure what exactly that is, since Case/IH took away the description since they don't handle that part anymore. I have sent emails to the sites guru's telling them it would have been so much simpler to put N/A in the description, rather than eliminate the part description/number itself. It apparently fell on deaf ears, and why I have purchased several hard copies of parts manuals for some tractors I have. A necessity if looking for used parts, whether at salvage yards, or places like ebay.

You sort of lost me where you're picking up the 2V. Is the on the output side of the old ballast resistor, or at the terminal on the side of the distributor..?? If you removed the wires from the ballast resistor and jumped it completely, you should show 12V going into the coil. Now you need to check voltage going into the distributor. If it's still showing 12V the coil does not have an internal resistor. If it's showing 6V, it does. If it in fact does show 6V, then once the starter is released, and current is running through a functioning ballast resistor with output of 6V may be reduced even further going through a coil with a built-in resistor I'm thinking would reduce voltage even further, but not sure.

With the distributor cap off, do note the direction of rotation of the rotor button to get the proper firing order of 1-3-4-2. Not all IH distributors turn the same direction, but it should tell you in your manual.

It's probably a good thing you were only getting 2V with firing order out 180º, or you'd have more than likely gotten a big "KER-POW" firing on the intake stroke. Don't ask how I know... Let's just say it was a lesson learned many moons ago, and something you don't forget. But they will also do that with a cracked cap, or having a carbon trace between lugs inside the distributor cap.

If the new ballast resistor does solve those issues, might be an idea to get a spare, and put it where you know where it is. They have a tendency to burn out at any time with no rhyme or reason. I had one burn out of my old Case 310B backhoe that someone had converted to 12V. I put a new one on it but thought if it was going to be a problem, I'd better get a spare. With my luck at times, if it does burn out, it's 5 minutes after the parts store closes and I really need it at that moment.

It does sound like you're making progress, just stick with it. All the diagnostics you're doing will come in handy in the future if something happens. For a gas engine to run it boils down to 3 basic items. Air, spark, and fuel, in proper amounts and timing. Check the easy stuff first, usually spark and fuel.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#64  
You sort of lost me where you're picking up the 2V. Is the on the output side of the old ballast resistor, or at the terminal on the side of the distributor..?? If you removed the wires from the ballast resistor and jumped it completely, you should show 12V going into the coil. Now you need to check voltage going into the distributor. If it's still showing 12V the coil does not have an internal resistor. If it's showing 6V, it does. If it in fact does show 6V, then once the starter is released, and current is running through a functioning ballast resistor with output of 6V may be reduced even further going through a coil with a built-in resistor I'm thinking would reduce voltage even further, but not sure.

The 2v was at the input to the ignition coil.

The "hot start" 12v power, normally, comes as passed through the starter solenoid. Before I started working on anything I photo documented everything for future reference/to see how it was "together". The wire going to the ignition coil terminated at this same tap on the starter solenoid, as does the wire from the ballast resistor.

What I understand to happen is when the start signal from the key switch energizes the start solenoid to engage the starter - that same engagement of the starter trips the power to the tap going to the ignition coil - just like a relay output. The other day this is where I was getting the under 2v, indicating that there is an issue with this tap on the starter solenoid (I assume grounding out, though there is no issue with the power going to the starter - it cranks strong).

When I bypassed the terminal on the starter solenoid I used a 20a rated automotive cube relay (5 pin - 2 coil and 3 for NO/NC contacts). I have it wired in to the same power and signal wires going to the start solenoid. The lead to the ignition coil has the addition of the lead from the ballast resistor.

What I found in that wiring method was when the starter was engaged I had battery voltage at the ignition coil when the starter was engaged, but it dropped to under 2v through the ballast resistor in "ignition on", without the starter engaged.

So I bypassed the ballast resistor yesterday and joined the wires that would have gone to the ballast resistor together so as to get straight battery voltage to the ignition coil with simply "ignition on" to try to get it to go. It did, a couple times.

Now I have some ballast resistors to try so I will get that straightened out as I work on it today.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#65  
We got the tractor running - finally.

When I had it "running" the other day apparently the distributor rotor - brand new with the rebuild I did - disintegrated. A buddy of mine came over with a timing light and some other gizmos to help out and we went tracing things and poking around. He pulled the cap off the distributor and the rotor had no contacts on it. I later found the blade in the gravel under the tractor. I have yet to locate the wiper contact.

We put the old one back on and it fired right up.

I hooked to our brush hog and gave it a little bit of a run. It did great and the engine just sings. Nothing better than a smooth running machine!

We had family over today and my step dad said it purrs like a kitten. Its hard to believe it didn't run for years and runs this well now.

I'll see if I can get a video clip of it and post it when I get a chance. I am going to fuel up tomorrow and try to do some more brush hogging to open up the yard here finally. And maybe a path back through the rest of the acreage so we can at least get back there.

For what it is worth, we didn't have to touch the timing. I was close enough on how I set it we just eyeballed it with the light. If anything it might be able to be advanced a hair, but it is so smooth right now I don't think its worth it, nor did my buddy.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going #66  
Good deal..!! Glad to hear you got it running. You've gained some valuable information/experience to pass on to others now.

Curious if it have live PTO, or a 2 stage clutch PTO can be engaged before tractor starts moving). I'm seeing they were available with either.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#67  
2 stage clutch. So far I like it. I dont have any complaints about it. I am going to be doing a lot of reverse brush hogging starting this evening so maybe my opinion on it will change. We'll see.

I will say, though, that low range 1st gear is too fast to brush hog here for a good bit of the ground. That kind of stinks = lots of riding the clutch, unfortunately.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#68  
Update from this evening's work.

I ran for around 2 hours with the brush hog. The latter 45 minutes or so the muffler fell off.

This tractor has the low exhaust under the machine, not a stack sticking up.

When the muffler fell off I immediately noticed and stopped brush hogging. I worked the tractor out of the swath I was cutting and found the muffler, kicked it out a ways so I wouldnt run it over, and the machine died in me. It would not re-start.

I took a break, got my multimeter, and went to troubleshooting. I had the proper voltages on the ignition coil input and I had fuel through the filter (can see it move with the fuel pump). So I thought maybe it got too hot. I tried it again and this time it fired up.

I cut the last bit of that section of acreage, shut off the PTO, shifed gears to head back to the barn and just after I got moving the same thing - it died on me.

At this point we took a break for dinner. Then afterwards I went back out to try again and it fired right up and stayed running smooth all the way in to the barn.

Any ideas on this one?

With the re-wiring I did if there is a "temp sensor" that would kill the ignition it would not have any affect on the rewiring. Is there some kind of mechanical action? Like a temperature controlled over-ride to the governor that will force the throttle plate closed? That makes no sense to me, but ya never know.

What does make sense to me is it sounds like it is loosing fire entirely - like no ignition or no fuel. It doesn't even sputter. It just "turns off" when it dies

After sitting and re-starting - when it fires it just goes, there is no "several attempts to start".

Im a bit at a loss on this one.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#69  
Another issue I did see coming is exhaust fumes as the manifold is cracked. I have some high-temp JB Weld to try to seal this with before I run it next time.

However, that only solves one issue. With the exhaust exiting under the tractor it isn't getting up and away - especially going backwards. I'm wondering if, since the muffler and exhaust pipe need work now already, it might be better to convert to a vertical exhaust.

However, with the cracked manifold I am doubting it can support that load for long. Manifolds aren't cheap, and aftermarket is the only way it appears to get a "new" one. OEM used ones are more expensive and quite rotten - just like mine, minus cracks.
 
   / International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going
  • Thread Starter
#70  
More stewing on the engine quitting issue -

With the cracked manifold - is it possible the temperature of running heavy is expanding the cracks causing more leakage - both exhaust and intake (I'm pretty sure all 8 ports, 4 intake/4 exhaust, are cracked)? I could see where an expanded crack on the intake side would lower vacuum through the carb. However, that wouldn't eliminate it = I could see a loss in power, but running OK to a complete "dead stick" I can't see from this scenario.
 

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