Garden tractors? At a cross roads, need some other heads to bounce ideas with

[FlyFishn]

Just a quick update. I spent almost 2 hours with the TYM dealer yesterday discussing a number of ideas.

He made a very strong, and quite frankly, painful suggestion. That is if we get a small tractor now and pair new implements with it the cost between that set up and a bigger tractor now that can run what we have is a lot closer.

I very much agree in that regard. However, it is putting our cost up and that is both very hard for us to do right now, and it pushes that 60hp class full size (not compact) farm utility off even further.

There is some more detail that plays with things also. It has to do with the financing. Their options wont cover "accessories and implements" very easy. There is some coverage for an add-on/upgrade for the 3ord function remotes on the loader and rear remotes (depending on tractor), but a grapple may or may not pass (loader and bucket yes). So when it comes to setting up the tractor with what we would want to spec, unless we actually write it up and run the purchase we're not sure what financing would cover and that plays a significant role in the amount of, essentially, a "down payment" that would be required. As we were looking at it - some of the accesories/implements would amount to around $6,000 - above the "tractor". Theres no way we could pull that off today.

Anywho,

Off to Kubota tomorrow.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

When I bought my little overgrown lawnmower, my dealer told me they are easy to resell and hold there value well, as I really wanted a bigger tractor, but none in stock!

But ... Now that I have it, and have it customized to my liking, I don't plan on selling it ... I did however get a bigger tractor, mostly for more comfortable mowing duties ...

While I did set up my new to me bigger tractor that has Cat 2 lower 3pt arms to take the Cat 1 quick hitch, so I can still use some of my little baby attachments if in a pinch, but even the 6' rear blade that's a tad big for my SCUT, is likewise a tad small for my CUT! But in a pinch I could actually use all of my attachments on it, even the 48" tiller! But far from Ideal!

The 5' brush hog likewise is "marginal" with the SCUT, as far as weight goes, as I "need " extra weight in the bucket to steer! But it more than covers the tire tracks, not like on the CUT . . .

So ... I also got a bigger 90" finish mower for the CUT, now it more than covers the tire tracks, but too heavy for my SCUT, which also doesn't have enough PTO HP to run it ... Sometimes just having two tractors is what really is needed ... !

I also have a 31 HP 60" deck commercial Z-turn, so plenty of options to "cut the grass"!

 

[FlyFishn]

Sometimes just having two tractors is what really is needed ... !

Oh I whole heartedly agree. More than you can imagine.

We were talking about that the other day at the dealer. They farm, large ag. It was a small dealer - it is a farm that ran a couple short lines, including TYM. So they understood very much the idea of multiple tractors.

In our world - the whole base of our "farm" is it is intended to be for family. Once we're up on production the idea is the produce is there so family knows they can drive back there and pick what they need, if they have the desire to grow there's plot for them they can take care of, if they just want some specialty veggies or what ever - we can grow them. Along with that "resource" is, as we already do, help. If we can wheel a tractor and some tools on a trailer and, say, get to our parents if a tree is down - that's a big help. The bigger the tractor is the harder that is to do to the point the farm utility would likely be too big at any time (that is a "load up the tools and drive the whole tractor down the road" deal, not "load it on the trailer" deal - we would need a semi truck, not out of the question in further years, but certainly not even on the radar as the bigger tractor is).

But we have to start somewhere. The 444 was a good start, and would be "good" if it ran. Just a frustrating spot to be in. We'll see where things go later today then I can have a sit down with my woman and number crunch.

 

[thebmrust]

I dont have time to work on it. Thats the problem with everything - I need a machine that "works", turn key, and is reliable.

Everything we have is a "project" I dont have time to work on - so it just sits. I need to get work done while the projects sit.

That is what Im asking with the thread and the garden tractor - if I can get a machine that will do the essentials, turn key, that is what I need. But what is that? What isnt going to break and leave me down when doing more than mowing grass?

Buy once cry once.
Go buy a tractor. Make the payments.

We spent 5 years (and three riding mowers) with used equipment and my wife calculated I spent 2 hours fixing to every 1 hour working (mowing).

Then we realized in 5 years how many projects were stacking up.

So this spring we bought a new riding mower and this fall a new TYM T25. Every penny of those purchases hurt. But the amount of time I have saved is insane. The number of projects I have done is incalculable. I got 3 projects involving moving material done in one day, that has been taking me years at picking at them.

Buy a tractor and implements. Move on.

 

[dadohead]

Deere's are out of the question.

Small lawn tractors are definitely more affordable. However, they don't have the strength we need.

We need something that can do some real work and has an actual transmission that isn't going to blow out in a year or two of "heavy" use.

I don't why the "no Deere" requirement.

I was an engineer at Deere for years. A little secret: engineers are cheap! Know that inside Deere Horicon almost every engineer mows with the same thing: a GX. Typically bought used (some got theirs new) and will die with it.

Why? Most agree it represents the pinnacle of garden tractor design. They are a little smaller than new garden tractors, have great decks/attachments, KHI engines, diff-lock, and most important: a K71 transaxle. The things are just bullet proof! The guys that bought new got the GX345... the water cooled variant. That engine had some warranty. When I bought used, I found a 200hr GX335... the air cooled KHI big block. $4000. Will outlast me.

When my B-I-L needed a garden tractor for mowing/snow removal... I found a GX345 that had a toasted engine (400 hrs) and had a lawnmower repair guy drop a new KHI big block in. $4k all told. Something else to consider.

 

[dodge man]

Maybe it’s time to look at the used market.

 

[FlyFishn]

I don't why the "no Deere" requirement.

With the thought of after-sale dealer/corporate warranty work, and out-of-warranty work Deere is very difficult unless you are a large scale grower. Ive been on both ends of that spectrum at the dealer level - trying to take care of growers when Mother Deere has a higher priority the little guy suffers. Ive been "the bad guy" leaving the little guy pleading in the wind because of that - there are only so many resources/people and, sadly, the big corporate operations Deere is trying to maintain contracts with rolling equipment every year tend to be prioritized. Case is the same way.

My buddy that has farmed his whole lofe had a side turf business. His hydro drive on his deere compact utility tractor went out and they denied his warranty. He ended up with well over $10k in repairs. That is aside from the millions of dollars they have now and have spent in equipment on the farm.

We will always be a very small operation. We will, at some point, need dealer support. I do not have the "warm and fuzzies" one bit in that regard from Green and Red.

That isnt to say they dont historically have some good equipment, they do. Just that dealer support, to us, is an important piece and I think other companies hit that nail on tjr head for the smaller guys than Green or Red.

 

[FlyFishn]

Buy once cry once.
Go buy a tractor. Make the payments.

We spent 5 years (and three riding mowers) with used equipment and my wife calculated I spent 2 hours fixing to every 1 hour working (mowing).

Then we realized in 5 years how many projects were stacking up.

So this spring we bought a new riding mower and this fall a new TYM T25. Every penny of those purchases hurt. But the amount of time I have saved is insane. The number of projects I have done is incalculable. I got 3 projects involving moving material done in one day, that has been taking me years at picking at them.

Buy a tractor and implements. Move on.

Ironically this was the gist of our conversation tonight. Yes, the lost time hurts. That is all time none of us will get back.

The hard part is what ever we spend money on now through the forseeable future will push out that farm utility tractor keeping it in the unobtanium realm (beoynd reach). But we still have to get some work done and have a reliable machine to do it with.

 

[FlyFishn]

Quick update from today -

I priced a Kubota B2401. That with the specs (loader, 3ord function, grapple, mower deck) we were on with the TYM is within about $3000-4000 of the TYM. And all of what they offer is able to be wrapped on the same note. TYM is not able to do that.

Im thinking at this point this might be the way to go. However, if we can't get the 444 going we will have to get different tillage implements that are small enough to run with it. That is "going backwards", but it would get us through a growing season or two if we had to.

More to come.

 

[Carl_NH]

Have you priced out the L2502 ? It's a larger frame, more capable loader and probably in the same price range.

 

[FlyFishn]

Have you priced out the L2502 ? It's a larger frame, more capable loader and probably in the same price range.

I think we loose the mid PTO and mid-mount mower, if Im not mistaken, with the L series.

 

[Carl_NH]

Yes, you do lose that option - you could pick up a used rear finish mower for $1-2K

 

[Torvy]

Sometimes you are better off getting your financing away from the dealerships.

You get a loan from an AG bank or CU and roll whatever you need into the loan.

Another thing to consider is if you are a small business, the cost can offset some of your gross income. You can take the expense in one year or depreciate over time.

 

[shooterdon]

I saw your comment about "getting chickens" and it reminded me of my buddy. He is like you, and 'doesn't have time', but ended up getting chickens. He would not admit it was a stupid thing to do until almost three years had passed. Please do not take this the wrong way. You are running out of time because you have too much on your plate. Have a hard look at what you are doing and why.

IMO getting a new tractor has a lot of advantages as I went through the mill as well. Bought a used JD 855 to get started and spent a lot of money and time keeping it running. It was the wrong machine for my needs. I did not lose money on it, and I learned a lot.

You sound like a new "hobby farmer". If you are, keep in mind it is a hobby. You will not save any money so keep it fun. The typical justifications are "eating healthy food" and wanting to be "self-sufficient". Both cost money.

As I mentioned in the first paragraph, make a list of what needs to be done and what are "nice to have". Going back to chickens...not many people "need" to raise them. Why are you tilling? If you are a hobby farmer, it may not make sense. BTW, the same buddy who got the chickens, ended up buying a 74HP tractor so he could do contract tilling; and has not earned one dollar at it. The house he started building five years ago is not finished and he "has no time". But he pisses away time building his shop, man cave and gardening. He puts his wants before his needs.

Back to the tractor, buy one size larger than you think you need. It will not cost that much more, and you will not regret it.

 

[FlyFishn]

Back to the tractor, buy one size larger than you think you need. It will not cost that much more, and you will not regret it.

Thats where I get to the 60hp full farm utility - "one size bigger than we think we need". So anything smaller we get is "backwards" for a while.

 

[airbiscuit]

I think you're closing in on your near term needs and budget. That will serve you well for a while!

 

[FlyFishn]

So I mis-spoke earlier. Its the B2601, not the B2401, we got the quote for.

I think it is between that and the LX2620. They arent much further apart on $, the LX takes a 72" deck, and its a bit bigger to handle our brush hog a bit easier. Both should run it, though.

 

[airbiscuit]

Oooh, the LX will have more capability/traction.

 

[FlyFishn]

Oooh, the LX will have more capability/traction.

If we add ballast - will it really be that much difference?

 

[airbiscuit]

Larger tires make a huuuge difference