Garden tractors? At a cross roads, need some other heads to bounce ideas with

[FlyFishn]

All,

We're in need of a machine.

Some background - we bought an old International 444 with a loader a couple years ago. I got it running when we moved out to our farm. It went down that winter a few months later and life's been too busy to do anything with it. I am hoping to get to it this winter - but we're just at the beginning of it.

Last spring we bought an old John Deere 185 Hydro. Its had some issues, but in general has been OK for the grass mowing season and general duty hauling stuff around the place. I've pulled our 16' tandem axle trailer with it a few times moving brush and other stuff - and that loads it way too much, but its done it.

About a month ago we got a snow plow for it. We've used it twice. And now we're in a hole.

We can't get the engine to run, no matter what we do. Starter fluid and gas straight in the carb, it smokes and backfires a bit, but I can't get any more than a pop or two of actual combustion.

I'm guessing it is a compression and/or valve issue. And I need to be working on our big loader tractor, not this dmn lawn tractor.

And we're at the beginning of the snow season.

That said - we need a machine that is reliable. I am about to see about getting a new machine, but that is going to come with a loan and payments we don't want - but we need a reliable machine.

Deere's are out of the question.

Small lawn tractors are definitely more affordable. However, they don't have the strength we need.

We need something that can do some real work and has an actual transmission that isn't going to blow out in a year or two of "heavy" use.

What about garden tractors?

For example - I am eyeballing the biggest Husqvarna - the TS354XD. It is said to have a "commercial" grade hydro drive with locking diff.

That, though, is in the $5,000 range for just the machine. At that money I'd rather get a utility tractor with hydraulics - but that is another $10k or so.

So what thoughts are there? What would you look at?

My fear going used is the reliability issue - we need something reliable. And if we go new we can do payments, and not all $ up front which we can't do right now in the heating season on top of Christmas...

 

[leonz]

Save the 444 as it needs a little work and buy a used BX1870 or BX2370,
there are enough of them around to buy from iron planet or tractor house.

Do you own a space heater that you can use to warm up the 444?
Do you have a mister funnel to get rid of the water in your gasoline?
Do you use seafoam or stabil for your fuel?

 

[FlyFishn]

Theres a thread here on the 444 work. I wont rehash all of it, but in short - it came apart last winter in my shop and is still apart.

 

[denchen]

Sounds to me like the timing has slipped on your old Deere. I would see if the distributer has worked loose, if not check the rotor arm is at the right place, I've known the shaft drive pin to sheer on tractors.

 

[FlyFishn]

Sounds to me like the timing has slipped on your old Deere. I would see if the distributer has worked loose, if not check the rotor arm is at the right place, I've known the shaft drive pin to sheer on tractors.

I dont have time to work on it. Thats the problem with everything - I need a machine that "works", turn key, and is reliable.

Everything we have is a "project" I dont have time to work on - so it just sits. I need to get work done while the projects sit.

That is what Im asking with the thread and the garden tractor - if I can get a machine that will do the essentials, turn key, that is what I need. But what is that? What isnt going to break and leave me down when doing more than mowing grass?

 

[bigtiller]

The JD 185 was just a riding lawnmower.
I suggest you look past the garden tractors and consider a subcompact utility tractor (SCUT). They are the same physical size and power of a garden tractor but are much more capable of work without hurting it's self.

 

[FlyFishn]

The JD 185 was just a riding lawnmower.
I suggest you look past the garden tractors and consider a subcompact utility tractor (SCUT). They are the same physical size and power of a garden tractor but are much more capable of work without hurting it's self.

This is the hard subject. We need a real farm tractor. For that we're eyeballing the Kubota M4D-71 right now - as everything else, as finances will allow. The 444 is, hopefully, going to fill that gap for a bit.

If we go with a compact tractor now that is going to financially cripple us fron the M4D fir a long while.

So if we down size - what is going to get some essential work done and be reliable? Thats where we are.

 

[Carl_NH]

As Leonz said the Kubota BX are highly regarded and reliable and can be found with a loader and mower deck (if you need a mower too) for $10K range used. Then in the same size you have the Mahindra Max26 and Massey Ferguson as sub compact tractors you can find in the 10-12K range.

The better option may be to step up a size to the Kubota L series like this L2501 with 290 hrs at $18K and this will do the work on a small farm, pull wagons, plow, move snow and more. Pardon Our Interruption

Also post where you are from/region of country for more precise/local suggestions.

 

[IH3444]

The Husqvarna are known for serious frame breakage. The 444 is a h$ll of a machine when in top tune and mechanical shape.

https://www.mytractorforum.com/threads/2020-vs-2019-ts354xd-and-frame-question.1349941/

You need a real mowing tractor.

KUBOTA BX1500​

Pardon Our Interruption

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Not many late model garden tractors made anymore, most have embraced the Sub-Compact Tractor (SCUT) size ...

For example a John Deere X700 series in a diesel model, is a slightly better mower with its AWD, but seriously lacking in being a "Swiss Army Knife Tractor" like is slightly bigger 1R series brother, for hardly any more money ...

Searching Tractor House with your zip code and price range could find you something that would work ...

Some of the older (very OLD, but capable) GT's like the Wheel Horse, Bolens, Simplicity ... Had 3pt and rear PTO which made them very versatile ...

 

[FlyFishn]

Not many late model garden tractors made anymore, most have embraced the Sub-Compact Tractor (SCUT) size ...

For example a John Deere X700 series in a diesel model, is a slightly better mower with its AWD, but seriously lacking in being a "Swiss Army Knife Tractor" like is slightly bigger 1R series brother, for hardly any more money ...

Searching Tractor House with your zip code and price range could find you something that would work ...

Some of the older (very OLD, but capable) GT's like the Wheel Horse, Bolens, Simplicity ... Had 3pt and rear PTO which made them very versatile ...

Yea if we're in the territory of a 3pt hitch and PTO I need something that will pull our 2 bottom dearborn plow and 8ft disk. No compact tractor is going to touch those, even the 444 thats tough on in our ground but it squeqks by.

Mowing, towing, and front blade work is what Im after - maybe some light tillage off a sleeve hitch. In the case of the big Husqvarna - Im not interested in their "scoop". I would be interested in the "dozer blade" though.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

While there are quite a few Z-turns and front decks in this list, as they are all in the "lawn mower" category same as the Garden Tractors ...

The older X400 series JD are an older version of the new X700's, a very robust GT with good current parts support,same with the Kubota's, the Case, Craftsman, and Ariens maybe harder to get stuff like the front hitch for a plow or mower deck parts ...

Pardon Our Interruption

Don't know why it always say that, just click on the link, it will take you to tractor house, you can put in your zip code near the top to sort closer to you ...

Here's one in that list with both a plow and mmm ...

 

[FlyFishn]

Ill check some of the ideas some of you have mentioned/linked to as I get a chance.

Some more info to add to the mix - I stopped by a husqvarna dealer. They do not have a 54" deck available until February. Apparently there is a change in their models. However, they have the same machine available - TS348XD - in a 48" deck. The 54 is the biggest they offer (still not big - Id go 72" if possible).

That said, they said the hydro drive is warranted to 1500hrs. They have sold husqvarna lawn/garden tractors since '95 and have not seen very many frames break at all. The guy I spoke to is the long time owner of the business so it wasnt some kid blowing hot air trying to make things sound good. That isnt to discount the possibility of the frame concerns, just it may not be as common as some would have us believe.

They have some financing options available that might work and with the machine on the floor and a blade at the local distribution warehouse it could be ready in a few days. Something worth considering.

Our current deck is a 46" so going to 48" isnt going to make much difference mowing, even 54 isnt, but what might is faster travel speed.

Lots to think about.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

While 5.5 MPH is OK, a lot of ground speed is dependent on the bumps (or lack thereof) in your lawn, but the faster you go ... The blade tip speed needs to also increase to still cut all the grass that goes under the deck ... I couldn't see a speed given for that deck, the Kawasaki generally is considered a good motor, I have over 1400 hours on my bigger one a 31 HP - FX921V

My Z-turn will do 10 MPH, with a blade tip speed of over 18K fps!

 

[bmaverick]

Yea if we're in the territory of a 3pt hitch and PTO I need something that will pull our 2 bottom dearborn plow and 8ft disk. No compact tractor is going to touch those, even the 444 thats tough on in our ground but it squeqks by.

Mowing, towing, and front blade work is what Im after - maybe some light tillage off a sleeve hitch. In the case of the big Husqvarna - Im not interested in their "scoop". I would be interested in the "dozer blade" though.

Slightly used Yanmar Cub Cadet SX3100 has 31Hp and the amazing diesel torque.
It will mow the lawn, have a CAT-1 live 3-point, and do the work better than the 444.

TractorData.com Cub Cadet Sx3100 tractor information

The mower deck is one of those drive on and self attach to go.

Full CAT-1 and live-PTO.

Optional BH too.

 

[airbiscuit]

If you look around, sometimes you can find a deal on a Simplicity Conquest. It checks the boxes for what you are looking for.

 

[airbiscuit]

That said, an ATV with a blade plows snow way better than a garden tractor.

 

[airbiscuit]

My neighbor has a Kubota GR2120 and it does well in snow (he has a front mount snowblower)

 

[FlyFishn]

Thanks for the added input.

Just a quick note on snowblowers -

For those that asked location - we're in Delaware County, Ohio - N-NW of Columbus. If we get 8-12" of snow in a storm that is a lot. I dont think a tractor mounted snowblower would do very well with that. The last 2 plowable snows here were 4-5". That seems a lot better territory for a plow over a blower.

The catch to that is repeated snowfalls where the berms along the drive fiill up from plowing to where there isnt any more room to push the snow. In that case a blower would be ideal as it will move all that snow, if it isnt packed ice. However, we have access to a skid steer to take care of that if it happens (neighbor).

When I was younger we had a 17hp MTD lawn tractor with a plow. It was not a "garden tractor", just a lighter duty mower. It did an OK job with chains and a lot of weight on the back, but we blew out the rear end twice I can think of - where gears broke through the housing.

I think the hydrostatic drives are more robust than the belt/gear style of the generation MTD we had was, but there again thats my core question - getting ahead of that and having a known robust overall machine (drivetrain & chassis) that is dependable doing that work.

From some of the replies so far my.deciphering goes something like this:
"Garden tractors" are heavier/more robust than "lawn tractors", but todays "garden tractors" dont compare to 90's and earlier "garden tractors" in that they aren't near as robust as they used to be. The market moved away from that robustness in that category and went to the micro compact and sub compact markets. The one hold over in the "garden tractor" category that is still a real robust "garden tractor" is the Deere X700 series.

Does that about sum it up?

 

[oldnslo]

We need something that can do some real work and has an actual transmission that isn't going to blow out in a year or two of "heavy" use.

What about garden tractors?

Define real work or worded another way what do you want this tractor to do?

Knowing this might help provide some better suggestions.