Insulating My Pole Barn - need help

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

Hello Guys
I am new to this forum. Here is my situation. I live in Northern, MN. I have a 30x60 pole barn. It is not insulated. I am in the process of insulating the walls and need a little help. I am on a very tight budget and the building is not something that I will be using all the time, only an hour here or there in the winter. The walls are built like this:
1. Outside - Metal Panels -
2. Wood framing (girts? horizontal) attached to 4x6 posts

That's it. I am thinking of simply fitting Expanded Polystyrene Insulation (sytrofoam) inbetween the horizontal girts and then finishing it with drywall. I am wondering if I will have a problem with moisture as the insulation will most likely be in contact with the metal. I do not have the money to buy foam or framing to put up batts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Steve

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

I just have the 1" foam.. I covered it with drywall around where my wood stove is. On the walls, I have a strip of treated decking or 2 X 4, depending on the foam spacing off the floor, down on the concrete. Then a 7/16" chipboard covering the lower 4' between the posts. This protects the foam from damage and keeps the chipboard from getting wet. Any type of batting is just gonna be nest material if you ever get critters in your barn. The foam is nasty stuff if you ever get a fire, but the barn will go up pretty quick with just the wood framing. In my work area in the center of the barn, I have an added layer of 1/2" DOW foam under the drywall.

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

JerryK said:
I just have the 1" foam.. I covered it with drywall around where my wood stove is. On the walls, I have a strip of treated decking or 2 X 4, depending on the foam spacing off the floor, down on the concrete. Then a 7/16" chipboard covering the lower 4' between the posts. This protects the foam from damage and keeps the chipboard from getting wet. Any type of batting is just gonna be nest material if you ever get critters in your barn. The foam is nasty stuff if you ever get a fire, but the barn will go up pretty quick with just the wood framing. In my work area in the center of the barn, I have an added layer of 1/2" DOW foam under the drywall.

Did you use any vapor barrier? When you say "foam" are you referring to the styrofoam or something else?

Thanks for the input...do you have any pictures of this?

Gunny · Feb 13, 2013

If you're planning on putting some heat in there (and I would imagine you do) I'd start with the ceiling. Before I insulated my ceiling, you'd have to stand right next to the woodstove to get any warmth. Got a deal on some 1" Styrofoam, nailed it to the purlins with those plastic cap roofing nails, taped the seams with builders tape and notice an immediate difference. The sidewalls just got plastic to keep air out and make a dead airspace, then nailed up OSB and pegboard. That also made an immediate difference.

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

I have 1" 4X8' stryrofoam screwed onto the layer of 2X4's that the outside sheetmetal is nailed to. This is done with 1 5/8" drywall screws and IDEAL 1" plastic washers... Some of it was done with the Grip Rite nails/plastic washers you can get at Lowes or HD, but those are hard to remove if you need to take the panels off for some reason. The entire ceiling is striped with 2X4's on 2' centers that the ceiling foam is attached to. Here is a picture of the washers. The green are the old Grip Rites [ they sell red now ] ....

DutchHenryBrown · Feb 13, 2013

:welcome:Good luck with your project.:thumbsup:

RedNeckRacin · Feb 13, 2013

does the styrofoam act as its own vapor barrier?

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

Here are a few pictures... First one is next to where I park my current vehicle in use in the winter. Second is where the trator sets with an extra kickboard trying to protect the wall/posts. Walls to left still need to be covered. Third is the front part of the barn with one of the ceiling access doors. Last is the workshop area.... Barn is 40X80 with 10.5' ceilings.

joeyd · Feb 13, 2013

I had the blanket type insulation installed during the build. As you can see in the picture they left me quite a bit of insulation. Before I finished the interior I cut another layer of insulation and stapled it between the girts. Then I put osb on the bottom 8' of the walls and drywall above that. To finish off the insulation I had 6" of cellose blown into the attic space. Stays toasty when I am working, I have the thermostat set to 40 when I am not in the pole barn.

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

joeyd said:
I had the blanket type insulation installed during the build. As you can see in the picture they left me quite a bit of insulation. Before I finished the interior I cut another layer of insulation and stapled it between the girts. Then I put osb on the bottom 8' of the walls and drywall above that. To finish off the insulation I had 6" of cellose blown into the attic space. Stays toasty when I am working, I have the thermostat set to 40 when I am not in the pole barn.
View attachment 303075 View attachment 303076

love the Isaiah 43:2-3 quote...amen!

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

Thanks for your help guys. I do appreciate you giving me how you set it up, however I was wondering more or less if my "possible" set up will work.

My plan is to either
A. To fit polystyrene (styrofoam) between the horizontal girts (along the walls) - the polystyrene will be in contact with the metal siding
pr
B. To nail the polystyrene directly to the horizontal girts (the polystyrene will not be in contact with the metal).

I will then put drywall up along some framing (horizontal framing - not girts) over the polystyrene (the drywall will not be in contact with the polystyrene), there will be an air gap (4-6") between the drywall and polystyrene.

Here are some pictures of the inside of my barn:

The plastic area you see is my current work area that I am expanding to be a finished room for work and play (kids).

My question is whether or not I need a vapor barrier with either option?

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

Us poor dial up folks sure would like it you would Google Windows powertoys, and download the free picture resizer... then resize your images to ' large '... which is something that will keep the file size down... [

]...... Of course, maybe I am the lone dial up AOL person left alive these days.....

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

JerryK said:
Us poor dial up folks sure would like it you would Google Windows powertoys, and download the free picture resizer... then resize your images to ' large '... which is something that will keep the file size down... [ ]...... Of course, maybe I am the lone dial up AOL person left alive these days.....

Try it in this pdf format, smaller size, hopefully this will work for you:
View attachment garage4.pdf

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

Worked great, thanks...!!!! I like the bubble boy house in the middle......

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

Another thing, depending on the type of doors you have, if you want to keep the critters out.. now is the time to tackle any small holes around the perimiter and close them up. Easier to work on and find them, if any, without the insulation.... Me, I strive to be critter free..... I even moved my wood piles about 800' to the rear of the property last year. Those things were critter condo's....

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

Gunny said:
If you're planning on putting some heat in there (and I would imagine you do) I'd start with the ceiling. Before I insulated my ceiling, you'd have to stand right next to the woodstove to get any warmth. Got a deal on some 1" Styrofoam, nailed it to the purlins with those plastic cap roofing nails, taped the seams with builders tape and notice an immediate difference. The sidewalls just got plastic to keep air out and make a dead airspace, then nailed up OSB and pegboard. That also made an immediate difference.

Gunny
It sounds like you are doing it cheap (like me). I don't need this thing heated all the time. In fact, it won't be heated except for a few hours each day to play/work. It will be half of my 30x60, so 30x30. I made a drop ceiling with R11 on ceiling (not a lot but it works). I don't know what to do with the walls. I'm a little worried about vapor. My plan is to simply put polystyrene board (styrofoam) either attached to the horizontal girts or fit it between the girts. No barrier or anything, and then drywall up on farming. There will be an air gap between polystyrene and drywall.

Think this will work? I have some pictures of my garage within the post.

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

Jerry K
What to you think about my two options (in an earlier post)?
Thanks for your help

JerryK · Feb 13, 2013

The wall insulation is not as important as the ceiling and the upper walls. You have to keep the heat from going up any farther than possible, then recirculate it with a ceiling fan or something. Either way sounds good to me. I like having the foam panels so I can remove them if needed to work on something. In fact, even my workshop walls are all drywall screw'd. I could take them apart and move them if I needed to.....

steveessie · Feb 13, 2013

JerryK said:
The wall insulation is not as important as the ceiling and the upper walls. You have to keep the heat from going up any farther than possible, then recirculate it with a ceiling fan or something. Either way sounds good to me. I like having the foam panels so I can remove them if needed to work on something. In fact, even my workshop walls are all drywall screw'd. I could take them apart and move them if I needed to.....

Yes, I am in the process of building a drop down ceiling, 9feet, using the joists to put stud framing inbetween for insulation. The insulation I am using is R11. I know it isn't the best Rvalue, but something is better than nothing. I just need to take the chill out. The walls, like I said, I plan to buy the polystyrene (1") and put either between the girts or attach directly to girts, and then drywall over on framing. No need for vapor barrier then??

KennyG · Feb 13, 2013

I recently insulated and finished my pole barn. You didn't mention what you are doing with the ceiling, but the ceiling insulation is more important that the walls. I put a vapor barrier under the trusses, followed by metal liner plate, then blew over 6 inches of celllulose in the ceiling.

For the walls I bought some used polyiso (high performance foam insulation) from a roofing company and fit that into the walls. Styrofoam is not great insulation. If I had it do over and didn't have the polyiso available, I would put cellulose in the walls. Put tyvek or some other building wrap against the girts, put a vapor barrier over the inside of the poles, add drywall/OSB/Metal panels/etc on the inside, leaving a gap at the top that can be closed after blowing the cellulose into the wall cavity.

Cellulose is the most cost effective insulation out there and it's super easy to blow in.