Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid

[rs191]

Other answers -
I don't know how the columns are joined to the piers. Seller's full response to all questions was "It has a C.O. from the town." and the name of someone (maybe a friend of his) which could not be found online.

Gutters and downspouts - not sure if the eave/roof construction is set up for that. And gutters have to carefully positioned or snow slides rip them off. Clogged gutters get too heavy when ice fills in for the 40ft length.

I'll ask the new contractor (To be determined) if the stairs can be relocated to the back and support poles used in the middle.

 

[KennyG]

I did a close-up shot of that small lawn mower door, so there was no perspective. It is only about 5 feet high. If you meant an overhead roller door, like security doors on urban stores, maybe . . . I was wondering if the classis sideways sliding barn doors would seal tight enough to keep the chipmunks out.

Making sliding doors actually seal is really hard. You can get tracked or roll up doors in almost any size by special order or on line. I would take out all the existing framing and rebuild it to the size I wanted. Not a lot of work.

 

[newbury]

That's a Halloween build, downright scary.
It looks like all the floor joists require additional support. With the "mending plates" all lined up it looks like you could have one failure easily cascade.
Are the mending plates nailed in or just dependent on their "teeth"? If the latter my first thing to do (and soon) would be to go around with nail gun and put some nails in each mending plate.

Maybe @EddieWalker will chime in.

/edit - and you are rightfully concerned about the extra loading on the roof, asphalt holds on to snow and ice much better than metal.
Get some video cams set up. I had a 40' Versatube carport collapse a few years ago due to record back to back ice storms in Mississippi, it was impressive as it fell into a twisted pile of metal.

 

[BigGG]

Your 'joists' appear to be the bottom chord of engineered attic style trusses. The plates are offset because a 14' + 16' board gives your 30' span, no problem. It would be nice to see the truss design document, so that the supports, spacing, etc. could be checked. Sometimes, intermediate supports along the truss are specified, sometimes not. Would the town inspector have them on file? Assuming they are properly supported, the design floor loading would probably be 20 psf or more.

I'd be more concerned about the stair opening. It appears one or more trusses were cut and altered, which would put additional stress on the adjacent trusses. I think you said this work was done after the inspector passed the installation, he/she wouldn't probably have accepted it.

 

[BlueKnife]

View attachment 825516
The toothed "mending plates" hold the ends of the loft's floor joists (?) together. They are the only things connecting the long boards together across the 30 ft. width. And they are all (with a few exceptions) in a straight line from front to back. They aren't in the middle, they are offset by 1 or 2 feet. I was wondering if the two different board lengths were supposed to alternate each time, so the "mending plates" are offset from the adjoining ones and there wouldn't be one long straight weak point for the full depth of the building (40 ft.)?

You definitely have some things that need to be addressed, but those are not one of them. Those are not "mending plates", they're truss plates. Those trusses were designed that way. You do not need additional support underneath them, unless you intend to put some sort of extraordinarily heavy loads on the second floor.

 

[civilian]

Is there any tags on the trusses identifying manufacturer. You might chase that down for how the trusses were planned and maybe a design drawing. Drawing would have floor loading and additional on site bracing etc required. I have similar attic trusses in my building, but it is only a 16 ft wide attic. My bottom cord under the 16ft room is a 2x12, plated to 2x6 or 2x8 going to the eaves. Attic has 5ft knee walls. Roof slope is 7/12 pitch. Jon

 

[California]

...But there is no clear path around the barn toward the back yard seen in the background. Maybe a second, lower, retaining wall is needed to cover the drainage pipes and to provide a level surface for small equipment (Kubota BX size) to access the back yard. The well is in the front yard, so back yard access would be for septic, tile field, etc.

Do you need access back there wider than a BX for a septic pumper truck or something?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Other answers -
I don't know how the columns are joined to the piers. Seller's full response to all questions was "It has a C.O. from the town." and the name of someone (maybe a friend of his) which could not be found online.

Gutters and downspouts - not sure if the eave/roof construction is set up for that. And gutters have to carefully positioned or snow slides rip them off. Clogged gutters get too heavy when ice fills in for the 40ft length.

I'll ask the new contractor (To be determined) if the stairs can be relocated to the back and support poles used in the middle.

Are there metal anchors on the posts, or did they set the posts in concrete? I don't see any metal brackets on the back door pics, so I assume set in concrete. the back door can be made taller, I'd put in some sort of overhead door. Looks like pretty heavy roof trusses. Did they cut any to put in the stairs? If so, that is a big problem. Normally if there is a stair opening like that, there are double trusses on either side. From the picture it looks like they cut a bottom cord and moved it sideways to put in the stairs. That is a major screwup. The bottom of the stairs looks like another screwup.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

this hole, where they did a piss poor job of installing the rat guard, should give you a peak at the post / pier intersection. Posts in concrete would be better than using the simpson standoffs, in my opinion. but that part was probably inspected. I assume by the space under the slab, the slab is poured on top of the piers. Id get some gravel put down and under the slab edge where it's like that. take some CR and pack it in with a digging iron under the slab, then fill 1-2 ft away from the wall so it won't erode.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Where to start? These are my thoughts only. If I was to see the building in person my thoughts could very well change.

With a roof pitch like you have do you really need to be concerned about snow load?

I would just add fill where ever you have erosion issues and add a gravel trench on the drip line to handle the soil erosion. If water drainage is an issue then you could easily add some drain tile to move the water to where it isn't an issue. As has already been mentioned, I would also pack some gravel under the slab where it needs it.

I like your desire to move the stairs to the rear of the building and to repair the cut truss/trusses.

I can't say for sure but to me it looks like the trusses were designed for a second floor. Maybe talk to a trusted engineer on that one. I'm pretty confidant that you will address the safety railing issues etc for the second floor.

The smaller door.... There is no picture of the outside of it but I would be tempted to add some J molding to the doors and the wall to seal the gaps unless this is going to be an insulated/heated area that you are going to work in during the winter. If so then a better door is probably a good idea. Adding a drip cap above the door would also be a good idea. Installing a sill plate would help to keep the chipmunks out. They are very capable at making a mess of things.

It'll be interesting to follow this thread to see your solutions. All the best!

 

[deezler]

I don't understand why many of you guys are freaking out about the presence of mending plates in an engineered attic-room truss. That is how every single truss is made, the pieces of 2-by are only coupled together with plates on each side of every joint. Of course the plates are all in the same spot on every truss, in a row - they are supposed to be. It's completely standard procedure and capable of handling the designed loading. In this case I would speculate (for upper NY) it's for a decent snow load and light storage load (IE don't fill the attic with file cabinets or pool tables and you'll be just fine)

Agree that the stairs were done poorly. Like buckeye said: with trusses 2-feet on center, you cannot just cut one apart to put in some stairs. You need doubled trusses on each side of the 4-foot gap, and then you still frame back in heavily. Since this is already done, I would buy matching 2-bys to basically build an extra truss on each side of the stair gap. Or move the stairs (because having them in them smack middle of a building is ridiculous) and repair the cut one fully, and add extra framing in the back when you move the stairs.

Stairs should definitely have a continuous stringer, at least 3 of them, from top to bottom. You need to bulk the stringers up with extra 2-bys running along side them also, I'd think. One thing you could consider if moving the stairs is to use the good continuous-stringer portion from a ~3' tall landing that you build, say with a 90° turn in the stair path.

The erosion outside can be fixed, just get a huge load of dirt delivered and build way up around the building as needed. Then gravel under the drip line for sure. Or better yet, gutters with downspouts. Erosion should never be allowed to get that bad in the first place, it is undermining your slab and you'd better fix it ASAP.

That lawn mower door is ridiculous. I mean, I can't hate it on it too badly, because I did the same thing on my 30x36 pole barn - cut out a wall section to make a pair of barn doors like that. But mine overlap, seal tight, and are 9' tall because why would you make them so short? crazy.

TL, DR: your building is not unsafe, the sky is not falling here. Just make repairs in the right spots as soon as you can, and then enjoy finishing it out and setting up your awesome shop! It's a solid starting point.

 

[deezler]

One more thought: the nuts having low thread engagement on the carriage bolts on your posts also seems like no big deal to me. The weight is being carried by the bolt, and the nut is really just there to hold the truss-carriers tight to the post and keep the bolts from ever backing out. If you have a few threads engaged, then the bolts are doing their job and no structural failure is imminent. Real dumb place to save a few bucks by intentionally buying short bolts, though. You could probably go around and replace them one at a time easily enough?

Hard to tell from pics but the bolts are galvanized, not just zinc-plated, right? If they go through treated wood.... must be galvanized to withstand corrosion.

 

[rs191]

Sorry for not responding. I contacted a local builder and one further away. The closer guy told me last week that he would come look at the building THIS week. Now he is not responding again.
The one further away, but with more pole barn experience, says to call him between 6 and 9 AM. Still getting voice mail and no return calls.
Will look for other builders now. Wanted to get on-site feedback from builders before responding to open questions.

 

[Ovidella]

I've been lurking in this thread for a while, and I gotta say, the pole barn knowledge here is top-notch! Especially for those considering building their own little slice of backyard paradise. Speaking of which, has anyone here considered using a pole barn design for a Small Summerhouses? I'm picturing something charming and multifunctional, like a potting shed with a cozy reading nook or a guest room tucked in the back.

Pole barns seem like a perfect fit for these little escapes. They're customizable, relatively affordable, and can be built lickety-split compared to traditional stick-built structures

 

[deezler]

@rs191 ,

any updates on your barn?