Tractor Sizing GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Development version)

[airbiscuit]

I would edit this paragraph to:

Heavier tractors generally have a larger frame size. That usually means more ground clearance, a wider stance, and larger diameter tires. Heavier tractors and larger diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing snow, pushing a loader bucket into dirt, etc.. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

 

[/pine]

...you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain....

Not according to the prices I see on CL...and BTW...what exactly is an "implement browser" ??

 

[jeff9366]

I would edit this paragraph to:

Heavier tractors generally have a larger frame size. That usually means more ground clearance, a wider stance, and larger diameter tires. Heavier tractors and larger diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing snow, pushing a loader bucket into dirt, etc.. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Inspiring.

Note changes to Post 80, WORKING DRAFT (#5)

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.




Thank you.

 

[MossRoad]

WORKING DRAFT (5)​

The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability. Rear wheel spreads are always shop adjustable, after elevating the rear.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a minor glitch or two that requires correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to others, well experienced with tractors, who perform their own maintenance.

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

I think there's an error in that sentence. (well, two, but one is written, the other an opinion)....

It reads weird. Shouldn't the word "when" be in between "only" and "operating"?

Nowhere in your article is the word PTO mentioned, but for the second to the last sentance. You've got some explaining to do.

For example... take a Kioti CK30 tractor. The engine is rated at 30HP. The PTO is rated at 24HP. Which horsepower are you talking about in your article? A newbie might not know the difference between PTO HP and engine HP.

 

[jeff9366]

I agree, final sentence is awkward.

I have edited offending sentence out of existence.

Note change to Post 80, WORKING DRAFT (#5)




Thank you.

 

[jeff9366]

One of you contributors should develop a parallel thread:

GUIDE: Shopping A Tractor For Power: Gross, PTO and Drawbar.


This thread offers inspiration:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/393974-hp-advice.html

 

[jeff9366]

what exactly is an "implement browser" ??

I shall mull alternative words.

 

[jeff9366]

Any speculation on the percentage of first time tractor buyers that buy used rather than new?
Many older CUTS, SCUTS etc. are worthy and still in great shape and not all are 4 wheel drive...

No speculation from me, today.

I learn a lot of industry information passing time at my local Kubota dealer during rainy days when customers are few. But my local dealer does not accept tractor trades-ins nor buy previously owned tractors.

 

[Piston]

Re: GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (development version)

I have been revising this screed for three days.
I seek outside criticism and input.
FIRE AWAY!


The best way to shop for tractors is to determine your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish as many of your tasks as possible. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites.

Hillside work demands more tractor weight than flat land work. Heavier tractors have greater wheel spread making them more stable. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes and ruts without the tractor rolling over. Larger wheels and tires provide a much smoother ride over rough ground. Heavier tractors have greater inertia to resist rollovers when moving heavy loads in the FEL, the most hazardous of routine tractor tasks, especially hazardous on sloped land.

For most tasks greater tractor chassis weight is far more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one basic configuration. Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay.

I like to spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

It takes a 50% increase in tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor is a pain and often a big hit in depreciation. ((Ask me how I know.)) Many who buy too light tractors buy too light implements.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, is a priority for me; less so for others, well experienced with tractors, who do their own maintenance. For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is essential. My kubota dealer is six miles away.

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

Jeff,
This is intended to be constructive criticism...

The best way to shop for tractors is to determine your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish as many of your tasks as possible.

I personally disagree. I think you have the first part dead on, determine your tasks first. However the second part, regarding weight, I believe should be 3rd, or 4th...

After determining your tasks, you can now determine what implements you need to perform those tasks. Remember, a tractor is nothing but an engine that drives the tools that do the work, it's absolutely useless without implements/attachments.

• Once you determine what implements/attachments you need (F.E.L., Mower, Box Blade, Belly Mower, Stumpgrinder, Logging Winch, Haying tools, Snowblower, Planters, Plows etc) then, you can determine what size implements you want to use.
  
• Once you determine the size implements you want/need, NOW you can determine what size/weight/HP tractor would best suite the majority of the uses.
  Some implements will be better matched to a lighter weight, high PTO horsepower tractor, and some implements will be better matched to a higher weight, higher PTO hp tractor, while some still will be just fine with a high weight and low PTO hp tractor (pulling for example)

Do you want to pull stumps out of the ground using a chain? Then PTO hp has nothing to do with anything, it's all weight/traction.
Do you want to mow a golf course with a 15' finish mower? Then you want the lightest tractor you can get, with the most PTO hp you can get.
Do you want to lift 2,200lb pallets up onto a 6' high ledge or retaining wall? Then you need a BIG tractor with a high capacity FEL, or a smaller dedicated TLB.

You can't determine anything, until you know what size implements you want to use. Don't determine what tractor to buy first, and then match the implements to the tractor. Determine what implements/attachments you want to use first, then match the tractor to the implements.

 

[jeff9366]

The diversity of opinions offered on TBN are its strength.

Why not start a new thread? "GUIDE: Implement Determination Should Be Priority One In New Tractor Selection."

 

[Rock Crawler]

The diversity of opinions offered on TBN are its strength.

Why not start a new thread? "GUIDE: Implement Determination Should Be Priority One In New Tractor Selection."

Instead of making another guide, and then another guide... and making this a daunting task... why not use the open source mentality and incorporate other good ideas (such as the one from Piston 2 posts above) into the document. I think that if this is planned as being a "sticky" post on the top of the buying forum section, a single all inclusive "living document" is going to be the most useful. It feels like you have an emotional bond to this document and to your original vision, and as such are resistant to allowing it to follow the open source platform and grow the document into a true all inclusive guide with the expectation that as others provide valued input, the document can grow to be more helpful.

I say that based my frustrations as a new buyer that had to spend hours going around to different forums and different posts while trying to form in my head a decent understanding of the "what and why" factors that effect decisions as one is considering the MANY products out there.

I believe you had stated in the past that you didn't want this document to become super-sized, but my personal opinion is that combining efforts and knowledge into one definitive guide would be the holly grail. There are different experiences being shared with you from a multitude of enthusiasts, I just think that considering the validity of those various inputs and the benefits of adding to the document would be the way to move forward.

Just my view point. Make 5 fragmented documents that all need to be considered against each other if that is the goal....

 

[jeff9366]

Long posts are not read by tractor newbies. Newbies do not understand tractor jargon = MEGO.

MEGO = My Eyes Glaze Over​

 

[MossRoad]

Instead of making another guide, and then another guide... and making this a daunting task... why not use the open source mentality and incorporate other good ideas

Regarding open source.... Couldn't resist... Sorry... :laughing:

 

[ArlyA]

Jeff, I really like what you've done with this. Is it perfect? NO! But its still a good base for newbies to read through and better than anything i could do. We only have two dealerships near us which limits what we can look at and there service is paramount for us.

WORKING DRAFT (5)​

The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a minor glitch or two that requires correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to others, well experienced with tractors, who perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

Jeff, I like what you've done with this. Is it perfect? NO! But its still a good base for newbies to read through.
We only have two dealerships near us which limits what we can look at and their service is paramount.

I look at Post #1 relative to Post 80, WORKING DRAFT (#5), and I see considerablel improvement with the credit to TBN contributors.

 

[ArlyA]

I have an AG background and 1/2 of my family is doing that today, although the little tractors discussed here, are not there thing..... Nonetheless, I had a modest amount of knowledge of tractors. As you suggest, I looked at PTO HP to operate a rough-cut mower that was as wide as the tractors width (give or take). All we'll do with it is trail clearing with this machine. That is mowing, bucking slash, pushing rocks and moving dirt on and off our trails to name a few. We of course now that pushing dirt with a loader, is limited. Others had suggested a three series from JD which at first, I agreed with. Small enough to fit on narrow corridors and light weight for less grief within wet area's. Not to mention, crossing some narrow bridges! In the end, we decided that the three series from JD were just to light to push the slash, dirt and rocks we need to shuffle around... When looking at used, we can't move one across states, plus ones that were reasonable new, lets say just 500 hours on them, were priced to close to new to be considered. Strange that some people seem to take offense when you say that you are considering a Deere.

 

[airbiscuit]

Jeff, I really like what you've done with this. Is it perfect? NO! But its still a good base for newbies to read through and better than anything i could do. We only have two dealerships near us which limits what we can look at and there service is paramount for us.

I also like what you've created. My priorities would be frame size, then weight, then hp. That said, I am quite in agreement with your general selection guide. Time for a sticky. Others with a different focus can create their own, and if they'll let us, we can offer edits.

Well done!

 

[jeff9366]

Suggestions for revisions to Working Draft 5, WELCOME.

WORKING DRAFT (5)​

The optimal way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend. In subcompact and compact tractor categories it requires a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation and requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume Kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on the implements than on the tractor. Passing time with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a minor glitch or two that requires correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to others, well experienced with tractors, who perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I hope you won't mind if another newbie who has been researching a long time and learned a lot from TBN, throws in her 2 cents. (Since the guide is directed at newbies, perhaps newbie input has some value.)

I think the "acreage" tables aren't much help. If you have 10 flatish acres that you only want to mow the yard, tend a garden, and move some mulch and soil around for landscaping, you probably don't need a 3777 pound large-frame cut! I believe that's right. Surely a lot depends on *how much* of your acreage you need to maintain and what you want to do. Plus what the terrain is like. The terrain kind of throws a monkey wrench into any neat categories IMO.

Perhaps it would be useful to create some general categories of typical newbie residential/rural property owner use (industrial/ag users know what they need, right?) I put in some Mahindra tractors because it's the only line I'm familiar with:

1. Light use: yard mowing, gardening, minimal driveway maintenance, occasional very light snow removal on smaller tracts. IOW, "replace my wheelbarrow with this tractor." (emax 20 - max 24, depending on how much weight you want to lift, push and whether you can get the job done with 48" wide attachments.)
2. Medium use: yard mowing but also mowing taller grass or larger tracts of grass, maintaining larger gardens and some wooded areas, regular driveway maintenance, light snow removal. (emax 22 - max 26, depending on how much weight you want to lift or push and how much driveway/property you need to maintain, plus whether you want wider than 48" attachments)
3. Heavy use: have another mower for the yard but need to maintain pastures, brushy areas, wooded areas, large gardens, longer driveways, medium snow removal, and generally tackle larger, heavier projects (max 26 - 1526, again depending....)
4. Super-duty use: Like #3 but more of everything (1500 - 3500 series)

Pretend your property is flat and level and pick a tractor based on the tasks you want to do. If you have hills you need to work on that your riding mower can handle, go up one size. If you have hills your riding mower is a little sketchy on, go up two sizes. If you have steep hills that give you major pucker factor on a riding mower, you probably need a 1500 series minimum. If you have rough or rocky terrain, go up one size even if your terrain is mostly flat.

General rule: If you're undecided between two sizes, choose the larger one.

Oh well, that was fun!

 

[jeff9366]

Pretend your property is flat and level and pick a tractor based on the tasks you want to do. If you have hills you need to work on that your riding mower can handle, go up one size. If you have hills your riding mower is a little sketchy on, go up two sizes. If you have steep hills that give you major pucker factor on a riding mower, you probably need a 1500 series minimum. If you have rough or rocky terrain, go up one size even if your terrain is mostly flat.

General rule: If you're undecided between two sizes, choose the larger one.

You are recommending Mahindra models, because you are familiar with them. Bare tractor weight fits your categories.

Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.