Post COVID CUT tractoring “truths”

[Paystar]

I’m going to “red pencil” through anything I don’t like on the CNH sales contract I’m doing on a NH wheel rake in the next few weeks and see what the sales team from Messicks says about it.

Stay tuned.

Know what dealers (auto, tractor, class 8 truck, etc) up here would say? "Have a nice day, good bye. We're selling everything that comes in, don't need you."

There is ZERO bargaining in this neck of the woods. Can't even get 2 front floor mats thrown in with a $90,000 pickup.

 

[Hay Dude]

Know what dealers (auto, tractor, class 8 truck, etc) up here would say? "Have a nice day, good bye. We're selling everything that comes in, don't need you."

There is ZERO bargaining in this neck of the woods. Can't even get 2 front floor mats thrown in with a $90,000 pickup.

Exactly.

 

[Matlax]

Started with a 25 hp for my hunting land. Used it with the grapple and 4’ tiller and box blade for fighting tooth and nail to establish trails and small (.25 acre) food plots with the grapple. I was fretting over spending another $1500 for the 35 hp model with rear hydraulics. Fast forward four years and I’ve had the land logged and now have much more trail to maintain and a couple 3 acre plots to plant and keep up with. A 4’ tiller ain’t gonna cut it and an all-in-one food plot machine would be a massive pain (if possible at all) with a manual top link. So I cheaped out and now I’m into a bigger machine for a good amount more than it would have cost four years ago. I had the money and knew I’d eventually log the land but had a bit of sticker shock and didn’t see how much my needs would change. That 35 hp would have been fine for what I need now (though it would have been working hard and made my jobs take longer on the plots). Instead I had to pay the higher price after the fact. Went up a frame size and with 50 hp. If I outgrow that, i cant even imagine what jobs I'd be into. Motto of MY story is to buy bigger than you think you need if you're still in the "developmental" phases of your project(s). Would have saved
me money in the long run.

 

[Bison]

If i had only 14 acres i would fence it and raise some goats or sheep instead of buying stuff that costs money and breaks down anyway( but then thats just me)
I you don't want livestock then i would buy a used tractor with loader
( belarus 925 or similar comes to mind, They are cheap and reliable and can prob still be had for pre plandemic prices).
I ranch on 1800 acres and all my equipment is pre-nineties( most of it pre-eighties), i started out with used and never bought any new but a stock trailer), I never even had a new vehicle.
As a result i am now debt free.

 

[DanBick]

Here's something to think about also. I've been following all these tractor forums for many, many years. Remember way back when the John Deere threads were the only ones absolutely booming? And there were many members buying multiple tractors, and bigger tractors. And now a LOT of them just disappeared. I knew many of them. Know why they disappeared? Because they lost their tractors because they couldn't afford them.

Notice now......John Deere is the most expensive tractor and all the Deere forums have almost no activity on them any more. LOL

I see plenty of activity on the Deere forum...won't start...this won't work...that broke, etc. My next tractor will be red.

 

[check]

Know what dealers (auto, tractor, class 8 truck, etc) up here would say? "Have a nice day, good bye. We're selling everything that comes in, don't need you."

There is ZERO bargaining in this neck of the woods. Can't even get 2 front floor mats thrown in with a $90,000 pickup.

Hey, I got front AND rear floor mats thrown in when I bought my F150.

 

[jdmeth]

Three years ago I saw an add for a Kubota B7100, $2500. It had a bad motor but it came with a full set of implements. Roto tiller, brush hog, disc harrow, box blade, angle blade, three point frame with 2" receiver hitch, and a boom pole. I bought it planning to overhaul the motor but wanted something with a front end loader and HST. Last year I bought a JD 1023E. Small but I don't have that much land. Now I wish I had got the 1025R,It has a suspension seat, tilt steering wheel, and you can set the position on the power lift. Money wasn't the problem, I am just cheap. I do not do that much with it but I am 70, in a few years having a better seat woud nice and not having to look around to see where the implement is every time I have to lift and reset it.

 

[JoeBee]

These are my opinions. There are tons of newbees getting into CUTs and hobby farms; I think it is time to review some “facts”. At the very least I look at this like PCs now - buy what works for YOU!!

“Never ending ‘add this’”. I was on a budget of $25k in 2019 and made it. Just barely. Cab? Nice to have, would have added $5k or more and weight (see below). More hp? I bought 35; mine was available in 40 (same machine otherwise) for $2k more; couldn’t stay in budget. Weight? Frame? Even more hp. See next comment

“Get as big as you can” aka “get one size bigger than what you think you need”. Not for me. I’m a hobby farmer. With 14 acres of prairie to mow and generally keep up with I chose 35hp hst. The perfect machine for me. Would I like to have more hp? Once in a blue moon when grass gets really high and I have to slow down, but so what? Doesn’t affect loader work. And a bigger frame to allow more loader capacity isn’t really a need either (besides I bought kioti with best in class lift already). An extra hour added to 12 hours of mowing 4-5x/year is negligible. Besides I LIKE riding and using my machine!!

“Non-tractor considerations”

“Truck”. I have a 2005 small block f150. I have no plans or other need to replace it. But I can only pull 6700#. Going larger frame or bigger trailer etc would mean a different truck if I EVER need to pull it

“Trailer”. For me 7k is enough. Sure 10k is nicer. And 14k as well. But also heavier and this impacts total towing weight (see truck comments above) plus more $.

“Dealer importance”. I’ve been back twice in 5 years. Didn’t and don’t care. It’s a hobby farm; I don’t need to rely on my dealer nor build a relationship. My CUT is not used for my livelihood and if I don’t have it for a couple of weeks it is simply an inconvenience not a problem. I bought the best deal and shooed dealers until I got it.

“Resale”. I didn’t and don’t care. Some do. For me I wanted a machine to last for 20 years not to trade out like a car (which I don’t do either). Besides kioti sells (or sold) for 80% of a similar kubota new. Most of them near me sell for 80% of similar kubota used. So yes they resell for less but they cost less up front and retain about the same overall percentage value.

“Weight vs affordability.” I bought the kioti ck3510. Love it. Sure I’d like to have had the dk for more weight and larger frame. But extra $ and extra weight driving me to a bigger trailer for more $ and a new truck for more $

“Don’t buy new, buy used implements”. Have you really looked lately - like in the last 6 months?They aren’t the same prices they were 5 years ago; heck not even the same price as 1 year ago. And availability isn’t good either; people recognize what they have and are hanging onto them, or selling for extra $. It may still be cheaper to buy used but that’s IF you can find it.

“Xxx hasn’t been around as long as JD or Kubota.” So what. For CUTs those names aren’t the same as they were nor the same as their real Ag machines. The one I chose - kioti - has been in the US for more than 30 years; I’ll likely have left my machine to my survivors in 30 years. And EVERY brand has recalls, detractors, supporters, and (especially since 2021) parts issues.

Many own the same tractor for 15-25 years—-Keep that in mind when deciding what you would like but decide to save some $$$. It may cost less than 1 car payment a year over the tractors lifetime.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Yeah right.... YOU don't have a clue about arbitration! Arbitration is far easier and much cheaper than a lawsuit.
Arbitration is done by an independent, non biased, legal authority. If a consumer can prove that they have a faulty tractor, the arbitrator can actually grant the consumer a new tractor.

If you were to file a lawsuit, now your lawyer goes up against the corporate lawyers..... who do you think is going to win? Then you are on the hook for your attorneys fees, plus, possibly the corporate costs..... Not to mention, if it's a jury trial, how many of those jurors know anything about tractors.....

You need to get out from under your rock every now and then.....

Exactly my point, but I decided arguing against a brick wall was futile.

 

[jdmeth]

This comment doesn't apply to all JD guys but often those guys are what I call "Image" guys. They have an image to uphold and wouldn't get caught dead without a green tractor. I have a BIL like this.

It bugs me to see that. I know there are plenty of JD guys who buy for other than image so don't get your undies in a bunch.

You guys who are the image guys, you know who you are.

I am a green tractor guy, when I owned a farm we had 7 green tractors and one blue one. My neighbor has 7 big green tractors and two smaller orange ones. I think the fact that his wife's uncle owns the Kubota dealership might have something to do with those. I wanted to buy a CUT but all the red tractor dealers are 50 miles away. The Kubota and John Deere dealerships are both 10 miles away. I had borrowed the neighbor's wife's little Kubota, hate, hate, hated the treadle for the HST. My JD 1023E has the two HST pedals just where they need to be. Same dealer my grandfather and dad bought all their tractors from. I do not think I will have any trouble getting service if I need it.

 

[Hay Dude]

Do you guys really believe one brand (perhaps your brand) has it all figured out and most/all of the others don't? Come on….really?
I have owned operated like 20 brands and nearly all had mechanical failures or disappointments.
I found Deere to have a lower rate of failure and disappointment than Kubota in MY experience. However, I am certain there are plenty of people who have has the opposite experience.

Like when I talk about a Ram/Cummins truck versus a Ford/Powerstroke truck. I like the Ram because the Cummins is an in-line 6 cylinder and prefer the way it pulls. It’s not really so much “better” as it is “better for my taste”. I also like that the warranty at the time was longer and the GCWR at the time was higher.

I know both trucks, on average are about 98% similar given same options and purchase price.

 

[Bentrim]

What size, what color, how equipped, what do I need? All questions a good dealer rep will answer and hopefully honestly, if they expect a customer to return and support their business. Of course there will always be those that will only credit the brand they are selling and point out all the bad of other brands. If they are truthful they will point out advantages of any brand whether the one they are selling or the competition. Though that usually doesn't happen.
As for me two dollars to put in my wallet at one time is usually a rare occurrence. Having been raised on a farm with big green two cylinders, a Ford 8N and a G Allis Chalmers, then going to work for a MM and MF dealer I found some advantages to all makes as we repaired what could be driven or drug in the door.
With this knowledge and being cheap, not wanting to go into debt, I found a TO35 I could trade a garden tractor for. Found cleaning the carb and tuning up the distributor it ran and did all I needed a tractor for. About ten years later found a 245 diesel for eight hundred, yeah the engine was bad. So repaired the engine, the found the scotch yoke pump needed repaired. Did that too. Then found a 232 loader for $2500. Finally got a unit I have always wanted---- Well a year ago C4 disintegrated and needed replaced, so that shot almost a whole year of getting out to run the tractor. Occasionally my son would exercise it as he had projects, but my corn patch just didn't make but one ear!!
With that said I really don't want new-- too costly, and too many "controls". My Masseys are something that is fairly easy to repair, and parts are usually cheap and plentiful at salvage yards. Be sides I am too danged old to want to do a lot anymore even if I can get out and enjoy riding or driving my tractors. And I still want to turn a few wrenches before I have to stop altogether. Time will tell when I need to park the tractor and close the tool boxes for the last time, but I hope it's not too soon.
Interesting a neighbor about my age, his son took over the farm and bout a cab tractor, a while back the elder said he was going to take a non cab tractor and do some work. Well the son said but dad that tractor doesn't have a cab, Dad said yes I know I've ran that tractor for many years before cabs were a thing.

So If you ask for help be prepared for advise, use what you feel applies to your situation, discard the rest, Check out, drive, test, inspect and buy what you feel fits your situation. If it is wrong you can change accordingly. Last I looked this is still America and we have some freedom to do as we wnt to. Just be aware there are those that want to sell you into giving them your money, with little in return.

 

[Friskiedgrrl]

These are my opinions. There are tons of newbees getting into CUTs and hobby farms; I think it is time to review some “facts”. At the very least I look at this like PCs now - buy what works for YOU!!

“Never ending ‘add this’”. I was on a budget of $25k in 2019 and made it. Just barely. Cab? Nice to have, would have added $5k or more and weight (see below). More hp? I bought 35; mine was available in 40 (same machine otherwise) for $2k more; couldn’t stay in budget. Weight? Frame? Even more hp. See next comment

“Get as big as you can” aka “get one size bigger than what you think you need”. Not for me. I’m a hobby farmer. With 14 acres of prairie to mow and generally keep up with I chose 35hp hst. The perfect machine for me. Would I like to have more hp? Once in a blue moon when grass gets really high and I have to slow down, but so what? Doesn’t affect loader work. And a bigger frame to allow more loader capacity isn’t really a need either (besides I bought kioti with best in class lift already). An extra hour added to 12 hours of mowing 4-5x/year is negligible. Besides I LIKE riding and using my machine!!

“Non-tractor considerations”

“Truck”. I have a 2005 small block f150. I have no plans or other need to replace it. But I can only pull 6700#. Going larger frame or bigger trailer etc would mean a different truck if I EVER need to pull it

“Trailer”. For me 7k is enough. Sure 10k is nicer. And 14k as well. But also heavier and this impacts total towing weight (see truck comments above) plus more $.

“Dealer importance”. I’ve been back twice in 5 years. Didn’t and don’t care. It’s a hobby farm; I don’t need to rely on my dealer nor build a relationship. My CUT is not used for my livelihood and if I don’t have it for a couple of weeks it is simply an inconvenience not a problem. I bought the best deal and shooed dealers until I got it.

“Resale”. I didn’t and don’t care. Some do. For me I wanted a machine to last for 20 years not to trade out like a car (which I don’t do either). Besides kioti sells (or sold) for 80% of a similar kubota new. Most of them near me sell for 80% of similar kubota used. So yes they resell for less but they cost less up front and retain about the same overall percentage value.

“Weight vs affordability.” I bought the kioti ck3510. Love it. Sure I’d like to have had the dk for more weight and larger frame. But extra $ and extra weight driving me to a bigger trailer for more $ and a new truck for more $

“Don’t buy new, buy used implements”. Have you really looked lately - like in the last 6 months?They aren’t the same prices they were 5 years ago; heck not even the same price as 1 year ago. And availability isn’t good either; people recognize what they have and are hanging onto them, or selling for extra $. It may still be cheaper to buy used but that’s IF you can find it.

“Xxx hasn’t been around as long as JD or Kubota.” So what. For CUTs those names aren’t the same as they were nor the same as their real Ag machines. The one I chose - kioti - has been in the US for more than 30 years; I’ll likely have left my machine to my survivors in 30 years. And EVERY brand has recalls, detractors, supporters, and (especially since 2021) parts issues.

What do you mean by CUTs?

 

[OK.Montana]

These are my opinions. There are tons of newbees getting into CUTs and hobby farms; I think it is time to review some “facts”. At the very least I look at this like PCs now - buy what works for YOU!!

“Never ending ‘add this’”. I was on a budget of $25k in 2019 and made it. Just barely. Cab? Nice to have, would have added $5k or more and weight (see below). More hp? I bought 35; mine was available in 40 (same machine otherwise) for $2k more; couldn’t stay in budget. Weight? Frame? Even more hp. See next comment

“Get as big as you can” aka “get one size bigger than what you think you need”. Not for me. I’m a hobby farmer. With 14 acres of prairie to mow and generally keep up with I chose 35hp hst. The perfect machine for me. Would I like to have more hp? Once in a blue moon when grass gets really high and I have to slow down, but so what? Doesn’t affect loader work. And a bigger frame to allow more loader capacity isn’t really a need either (besides I bought kioti with best in class lift already). An extra hour added to 12 hours of mowing 4-5x/year is negligible. Besides I LIKE riding and using my machine!!

“Non-tractor considerations”

“Truck”. I have a 2005 small block f150. I have no plans or other need to replace it. But I can only pull 6700#. Going larger frame or bigger trailer etc would mean a different truck if I EVER need to pull it

“Trailer”. For me 7k is enough. Sure 10k is nicer. And 14k as well. But also heavier and this impacts total towing weight (see truck comments above) plus more $.

“Dealer importance”. I’ve been back twice in 5 years. Didn’t and don’t care. It’s a hobby farm; I don’t need to rely on my dealer nor build a relationship. My CUT is not used for my livelihood and if I don’t have it for a couple of weeks it is simply an inconvenience not a problem. I bought the best deal and shooed dealers until I got it.

“Resale”. I didn’t and don’t care. Some do. For me I wanted a machine to last for 20 years not to trade out like a car (which I don’t do either). Besides kioti sells (or sold) for 80% of a similar kubota new. Most of them near me sell for 80% of similar kubota used. So yes they resell for less but they cost less up front and retain about the same overall percentage value.

“Weight vs affordability.” I bought the kioti ck3510. Love it. Sure I’d like to have had the dk for more weight and larger frame. But extra $ and extra weight driving me to a bigger trailer for more $ and a new truck for more $

“Don’t buy new, buy used implements”. Have you really looked lately - like in the last 6 months?They aren’t the same prices they were 5 years ago; heck not even the same price as 1 year ago. And availability isn’t good either; people recognize what they have and are hanging onto them, or selling for extra $. It may still be cheaper to buy used but that’s IF you can find it.

“Xxx hasn’t been around as long as JD or Kubota.” So what. For CUTs those names aren’t the same as they were nor the same as their real Ag machines. The one I chose - kioti - has been in the US for more than 30 years; I’ll likely have left my machine to my survivors in 30 years. And EVERY brand has recalls, detractors, supporters, and (especially since 2021) parts issues.

Good read. I bought a used Montana 70hp with cab. I need the 70hp for my baler otherwise I would have done what you did. I like new but I own some older- maintenance is always a consideration.
On the tractor mine has a JD engine and drivetrain but it’s a TYN assembly and with 2100 hours it’s just running and operating perfectly- I am under $20K (not much) and that was my budget. I believe you are spot on with the budget as the way to go. I’m not seeing any different operations between the different tractors and budget goes a long way. Thank you for your post

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

What do you mean by CUTs?

CUTs = Compact Utility Tractors: Most of the modern sub 50 hp tractors are CUTS
SCUTs are the even smaller tractors, some just a little bigger than a ride on mower. SCUT = Sub-Compact Utility Tractor

 

[Paystar]

Hey, I got front AND rear floor mats thrown in when I bought my F150.

My salesman just got fired because he was honest with customers and told them not to buy all the "extra's" the dealership tries to force you to buy.

 

[big bubba]

I have said on here many times that you dont need a 40 hp tractot for 3 acres, We have 360 acres of hunting property to maintain, We do have several 40 hp tractors and they get the job done , Would bigger be better for us ? for sure, But on 10 acres or less a 25 hp compact would be plenty,

imho tractor choice is about application, not a ratio of acreage to tractor size. 360 acre game plot application is different than intensive agri application on much less acreage. regards

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Exactly my point, but I decided arguing against a brick wall was futile.

Yeah, I was trying to hold back, but......

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Just be aware there are those that want to sell you into giving them your money, with little in return.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[rScotty]

imho tractor choice is about application, not a ratio of acreage to tractor size. 360 acre game plot application is different than intensive agri application on much less acreage. regards

Right, It's a big country, and hard to judge one area's needs by another. Here in the rocky mountains a 5 acre parcel is common, and there is plenty of need for a big tractor. 90 hp is handy.
I've got several neighbors with smaller places on the creek who have full size TLBs for long driveways, steep slopes, deep snow, heavy trees and rocks, that sort of thing.