Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

[Hay Dude]

The new “gasser excuse” is:
“Yeah but diesels cost 10 grand more up front than a gas engine”.
That’s misleading.
A diesel engine might cost 10 grand more than the base gas engine, but as anyone with experience in trucks knows, there’s usually at least 2 gas engines offered in any given year and the bigger gas engine is now a couple thousand dollar upgrade. For example, the Ford 7.3L gas engine option is $2,045.
And the 7.3L still can’t hang with a diesel and it’s B life would fall far short of a diesel, too.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm not really discounting it. Sometimes it's a perception/state of mind thing. For example I have a brother with a 99 Dodge Truck with a Cummins Diesel. He's dumped an endless amount of money in it (the motor) maintenance wise just because it's a Cummins Diesel...Had it been a V-8 he would have lost interest in it 10 years ago and probably scrapped it like you point out. And yeah, he'd probably want 10k for it if he sold it right now, just because it's a "Cummins"

A diesel pickup also costs more upfront than a gasoline one generally. Maybe what, 10k more today? So yeah it's not unreasonable they'd sell for a little more 20 years down the line.

My VW diesels were much more problematic and required a great deal more maintenance than either my Chevy Cruze (Not the world's best car) and way more problematic than any of my Dodge/Jeep gasoline vehicles. The VW TDI's didn't last any longer. And no longer than the same model VW's in gasoline either.

But you know what? A diesel VW sells for more than a gas version. Sometimes ALLOT more. Just because it's a "Diesel".

Of course that's a specific model of something, not a benchmark. Had they been powered by a sweet ISUZU diesel of some sort, who knows, maybe I would still be wrenching on them! LOL

A modern gasoline tractor engine would be just as durable as a diesel, or nearly so. Look at how many old gas tractors are still running.

That right there is the most absurd comment I’ve probably ever read on the internet.
Bro, I run 4 diesel tractors in a decent sized farming operation. There isn’t a gas engine available that could possibly do what these tractors have been doing, some for 15 years and close to 10,000 hours that would have had to been rebuilt 3 to 5 times.
You’d have to design like a 15 liter gas engine to make the power and the durability of my 6.6L to 9L tractor diesels I have. Even if there was one that would fit in the tractors frame (which there isn’t), you’d have to refuel it every 4 to 5 hours or fit it with a 500 gallon gas tank to get through a day’s work that could be done on less than 1/2 as much diesel fuel.
I mean, dude, you lost all credibility with that statement alone.

Probably another factor everyone is overlooking is that diesel was CHEAPER than Gasoline in most places up to around 20 years ago. IF diesel was significantly cheaper today it would definitely be a win/win. (Or maybe a win/win/win)?? LOL I wonder had Diesel been quite a bit higher per gallon than gasoline since lets say, 1930...I bet we'd have seen allot fewer diesel anything around-Including tractors.

But you know, I don't buy a tractor based on what the resale value might be in 20-30 years... I doubt too many others would care either?

I'm just saying it probably won't be a negative thing if a new gas tractor in a good hp class hit the market. Besides that, who knows what the future will hold in 20 years. Diesel may be 3x the price of gasoline, or not available at all!

Comparing 1970’s 50HP VW rabbit diesel engines to gas engines in little economy cars is one thing, but when you start yappin about gas engines holding up as well as diesels in heavy trucks or AG tractors, bless your heart, cause that’s up there with the dumbest things I’ve ever read on the internet.

 

[slingworks]

That right there is the most absurd comment I’ve probably ever read on the internet.
Bro, I run 4 diesel tractors in a decent sized farming operation. There isn’t a gas engine available that could possibly do what these tractors have been doing, some for 15 years and close to 10,000 hours that would have had to been rebuilt 3 to 5 times.
You’d have to design like a 15 liter gas engine to make the power and the durability of my 6.6L to 9L tractor diesels I have. Even if there was one that would fit in the tractors frame (which there isn’t), you’d have to refuel it every 4 to 5 hours or fit it with a 500 gallon gas tank to get through a day’s work that could be done on less than 1/2 as much diesel fuel.
I mean, dude, you lost all credibility with that statement alone.


Comparing 1970’s 50HP VW rabbit diesel engines to gas engines in little economy cars is one thing, but when you start yappin about gas engines holding up as well as diesels in heavy trucks or AG tractors, bless your heart, cause that’s up there with the dumbest things I’ve ever read on the internet.

I'm mainly advocating a smaller, reasonable 35-50hp new gasoline tractor. Nobody wants to deal with a 15L gasoline tractor! LOL Don't let your emotions get away with you Hay Dude. For what it's worth there probably isn't a 9L engine of any sort on any tractor within 50 miles of here.

 

[slingworks]

Actually gas engines can be pretty durable in a tractor or powerplant. Look at how many Farmall's and older vintage tractors are built to be re-sleeved and redone over and over. Many are still in operation 80 plus years on. A gas engine can be built for industrial use. I'm not saying a tractor maker should use the gasser from your F150....Geesh.....

I've never owned a 70's VW. Mine were from this Century.

Again, I'm talking smaller utility tractors in concept. Basically Like what you'd see in the parking lot of Rural King.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm mainly advocating a smaller, reasonable 35-50hp new gasoline tractor. Nobody wants to deal with a 15L gasoline tractor! LOL Don't let your emotions get away with you Hay Dude. For what it's worth there probably isn't a 9L engine of any sort on any tractor within 50 miles of here.

I’m not “emotional”.
YOU said “tractor” not “30-50 HP tractor”.
Not everyone here is in the 30-50HP range, so I suggest you don’t make generalizations like that.
As far as diesel versus gas pickups go, I have owned close to 15 diesel pickups since 1990. Before that, I ran big block gas trucks. The diesels will pull a heavier load and do it on less fuel and last longer doing it. All of them sold for far more than a gas pickup.

There isn’t even a gas engine powered 550 or 5500 size truck produced with enough of a tow rating to tow the trailer loads of AG product we make. What does that tell you about gas engines?
If gas engines were cheaper and could last as long, why don’t they make them?

 

[slingworks]

Yeah my experience is the same as yours. I have owned a 99 24 valve 5.9 Cummins and my current 2007 5.9 common rail Cummins. Lots of miles and I’ve not had to do anything to the engines except replace the batteries. But neither of mine are modified. Any the performance cannot be compared to a large V8 gasser. The Cummins will out haul and out tow any gasser and do it at 2500 RPMs on the highway. MPGs also don’t change much at all empty, hauling, or towing. No gasser will do that.

I've used his truck a few times and that's pretty accurate. I found it good for the long distance haul.

I don't hate diesels by the way. What I was pointing out is that they're loud, stink somewhat and not as economical in the overall picture as allot of guys like to think. For me the extra noise they generate over an extended period of time is the worst part.

 

[Hay Dude]

I've used his truck a few times and that's pretty accurate. I found it good for the long distance haul.

I don't hate diesels by the way. What I was pointing out is that they're loud, stink somewhat and not as economical in the overall picture as allot of guys like to think. For me the extra noise they generate over an extended period of time is the worst part.

Today’s diesel engines are actually very quiet. And no, they do not “stink”. They run very clean from the tailpipe.
I think you are suffering from living in the past. Like the 1970’s old-schoolish thinking?

Maybe Dr. Rick could help you from your old guy thinking clouding your very confused thought patterns of the modern diesel engine.

 

[slingworks]

I’m not “emotional”.
YOU said “tractor” not “30-50 HP tractor”.
Not everyone here is in the 30-50HP range, so I suggest you don’t make generalizations like that.
As far as diesel versus gas pickups go, I have owned close to 15 diesel pickups since 1990. Before that, I ran big block gas trucks. The diesels will pull a heavier load and do it on less fuel and last longer doing it. All of them sold for far more than a gas pickup.

There isn’t even a gas engine powered 550 or 5500 size truck produced with enough of a tow rating to tow the trailer loads of AG product we make. What does that tell you about gas engines?
If gas engines were cheaper and could last as long, why don’t they make them?

I didn't know I had to elaborate on a simple post to such detail.

Do you own any 30-50hp tractors? Maybe an old Ferguson or 8n you scrape around the barnyard with?

I've owned diesels for 30 years myself.

I don't think that smaller utility tractors are made in gas for a few reasons...first perception. Everyone wants a "diesel" 2nd is probably more along the lines that up until 20 years ago diesel was cheaper and most engineering was thrown that direction (why wouldn't they?) thirdly, the EPA. At this point in time I think allot of your engine builders are Leary of the future of emissions and internal combustion engines. Might not make sense to develop new industrial gasoline engines at this point.

 

[JESSE1]

A few years ago I was looking for a small tractor to take to tractor shows and use for small jobs. I found a '72 JD 1020 with a gas engine that had very low hours and in good shape. Handy tractor to have for pulling a sprayer or digging post holes. Starts fast in cold weather.

 

[slingworks]

Today’s diesel engines are actually very quiet. And no, they do not “stink”. They run very clean from the tailpipe.
I think you are suffering from living in the past. Like the 1970’s old-schoolish thinking?

Maybe Dr. Rick could help you from your old guy thinking clouding your very confused thought patterns of the modern diesel engine.

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They're considerably better than in the past that's a fact. Maybe we should bet a dollar to a doughnut as a wager and see who is the younger of the 2 of us? LOL Anyway, off to work for the day.

 

[Hay Dude]

I didn't know I had to elaborate on a simple post to such detail.

Well you certainly pointed out mine, so….

Do you own any 30-50hp tractors? Maybe an old Ferguson or 8n you scrape around the barnyard with?

I have (2) Kubota ZD1211-s and just sold my ZD331 and my F-3680. (I have pictures if you want proof).

I've owned diesels for 30 years myself.

That makes 2 of us. But tell me, how many Ag tractors or serious sized diesel trucks do you have? Tell me your experiences and I will share mine. I have 20+ years of AG tractor farming, 20+ years of commercial diesel zero turn mowing and over 1 million miles of commercial trucking with my CDL.
Once you establish your diesel use experience, then we can see who’s got the “coconuts” in this discussion.

I don't think that smaller utility tractors are made in gas for a few reasons...first perception. Everyone wants a "diesel"

No. 1st is durability. 2nd is ability to do all the work at 2000RPM or less as compared to 4000RPM in a gas engine, which is why it consumes more fuel. Other reasons include diesel fuel being less volatile around work environments like farms and customer’s properties.

2nd is probably more along the lines that up until 20 years ago diesel was cheaper and most engineering was thrown that direction (why wouldn't they?) thirdly, the EPA. At this point in time I think allot of your engine builders are Leary of the future of emissions and internal combustion engines. Might not make sense to develop new industrial gasoline engines at this point.

You really have it backwards, cous.
Cummins just developed a 6 cylinder gas engine that is very capable and should finally bury it’s gas guzzling V-8 competitors. The EPA is making it harder to own diesels and making gas engines more attractive.

 

[Hay Dude]

They're considerably better than in the past that's a fact. Maybe we should bet a dollar to a doughnut as a wager and see who is the younger of the 2 of us? LOL Anyway, off to work for the day.

Never said who’s is younger. I said your thinking is the thinking of the past. lol

 

[dodge man]

There is no reason they couldn’t make a gas engine that would work in small to very large tractors. There is nothing special or something unique to a diesel to make it more durable than a gas engine, so a gas engine could be made just as durable.

So why don’t they? I’m not 100% sure of the answer but I would say it’s fuel efficiency. In a small car or light truck not carrying a load it’s not a big deal to go gas engine. Take a semi or large ag tractor and put it to work hard I’m guessing the difference would be huge in terms of fuel used.

 

[Torvy]

^I'm not an engineer, but I made one.

My understanding is that part of the durability has to do with heat and how the two fuels burn differently.

It's a bit like saying you can build something strong made out of iron, just like with steel. Maybe, but cost, size and durability will suffer. For a job that requires lightness and strength, steel will always be a better choice.

For a product that requires durability and power, diesel will always make more sense than gas.

For farm applications, gas engines are possible, but will never be as good as an equivalent diesel.

Diesel is cheaper to refine. It only costs more because of the ULSD forced by the EPA.

For my uses, gas and diesel are about the same price here, effectively 20 cents more for diesel. If I had a 55 HP gasser, it would burn more than 20 cents a gallon in inefficiency.

 

[MossRoad]

I don't know, I'd probably go for a new gas tractor. I know allot of farmers that are pretty hard of hearing....I'd like to see it for the lesser noise. Not everyone has a need for a big Kubota or Deere with a soundproof cab. Overall I don't see diesel as being substantially cheaper as it once was?

I had a mid 70s IH2500b gas powered tractor loader for about 15 years. It was NOT quieter than a diesel equivalent.

 

[MossRoad]

It was also not as fuel efficient as a diesel equivalent.

But it WAS just as powerful as the diesel equivalent. And it had a smaller displacement motor. It had over 4000 hours on it when I got it and the hour meter was broken, so who knows how long it ran?

Anyhow, it served its purpose and functioned well. It was too big for our needs once the big jobs were done, and we sold it for a smaller machine, which is also gas powered.

 

[deezler]

Yeah I'm familiar with how it works. More hours of run time, but more per gallon at the same time.

Diesel not only has superior engine thermal efficiency under load vs gasoline, but at the same time each gallon of diesel has a lot more energy in it vs a gallon of gasoline (138k BTU/gal vs 125k BTU). Combine these two factors and you get a lot more effective run-time out of a 5 gallon jug of diesel vs a 5-gallon jug of gas. So you are re-filling the tank a lot less to do the same work.

 

[MossRoad]

Diesel not only has superior engine thermal efficiency under load vs gasoline, but at the same time each gallon of diesel has a lot more energy in it vs a gallon of gasoline (138k BTU/gal vs 125k BTU). Combine these two factors and you get a lot more effective run-time out of a 5 gallon jug of diesel vs a 5-gallon jug of gas. So you are re-filling the tank a lot less to do the same work.

But which one is more fun to pour on a lit fire?

 

[tradosaurus]

Trucks that "work" such as pulling large loads are best with a diesel engine. Do they make gas semi's?
Tractors in general do "work" almost all the time.
No way would I buy a gas tractor

 

[careyo63]

My small diesel is really fuel efficient. Much more so than the gas ford. 2cyl. and 24 Hp. My ford 4 cyl. Gas 48Hp.. It's quiet running and smooth. But I can go through a couple Gallons of Gas easy to where a couple gallons of Diesel lasts days. It bangs and clangs but been doing it for decades. It was the Diesel's smoke from the exhaust I found out. After running it with all the Maint. complete it quit and will only smoke starting it or under a load. The muffler ended up being the last problem. After seeing all the carbon showing up on the lid, I cleaned it "soaked it in Gas " It was hard to believe just how much Dirt and Debris came out of it!!, 012 on the Tach. when I bought it and 980 Hrs. now. It might use 1/2 Qt. of oil a Yr. if that. Always been a favorite.