Ford 601 Series

CJC12 · May 31, 2005

Hello,

First off I'm glad I stumbled across this great website. It is full of valuable information and from what I've read the forums are excellent!

We recently purchased a property that in my opinion needs a tractor.

It is only about 3 acres but I would like something with an FEL as well as a backhoe (or at least one that would accept a backhoe implement) for digging and taking out some (well, quite a few actually) little stumps. Additionally, I would eventually like to get a bush hog for weed abatement on some investment properties I have (.5-10ac).

The property just purchased has a water runoff ditch through the side of it that will need from my calculations somewhere around 3000 cubic yards of fill. This will be an ongoing project...

You're probably thinking with 3000yds of fill that needs to be moved around I'm going to need something big. I know it's not going to get this done overnight but I'm just going to make it a long-term project.

From what I've read a compact with say 35-40hp should be ok. What do you think?

I'm not ready to plop down 15-20 grand for a new tractor so I'd like to buy something used. Granted, I don't see many used compacts out there. Maybe this is a good sign!

In the meantime while I'm trying to find the tractor that would fit my needs, I'd like to get something cheap just to get me started in this whole tractor scene.

I found an old Ford 601 in the local classifieds. The owner says there is a bucket in the front and a box scraper in the rear.

From the pictures of the Ford series from that era I can't quite see how an FEL would be attached and operated. I'd love to show you a picture but the owner doesn't have one and before I drive 3hrs to look at it I'd like to know a little more about it. Does anybody know if this was an actual implement or if it must have been some kind of add-on?

I've read that the older Ford farm tractors have a pretty good reputation as far as reliability. Is this true with the 601 series? What should I expect as far as power output? How much does it weigh? Are parts tough to find?

Any information about this tractor would be useful. Like I said earlier, this is will be sort of a "starter" tractor, but I'd still like it to be pretty useful and proficient (at least for moving dirt).

By the way, the owner is asking $4500 for it and says it's had "average" use. Does this sound high or low?

Thanks in advance for everything guys!

Best Regards,
Carter

Charlie_in_TX · May 31, 2005

First, watch fill in ditchs. If you flood your neighbor, you are at fault. In most states you can't change the natural flow of water.

The old Fords are not good with a FEL. You really need MFWD or a BIG tractor. I don't know of a sub-frame mounted hoe but there is alot I don't know about. I would not get a 3pt hoe.

A little advice. Hire out the heavy work (or get a rental). Buy a tractor for long term use. You can rent a Case 450 dozer for a week and do far more dirt work than most tractors. In many areas, a dozer and operator can be had for what it would cost an inexperianced operater on rented equipment.

Your 3 acres can be mowed with a good riding mower after the dirt work is done, although I would recomend a 20hp small frame CUT.

Charlie_in_TX · May 31, 2005

O, welcome to the sight and tell us were you are from.

RonR · May 31, 2005

Welcome to the site!

I used to own an 801 Ford with an aftermarket loader. DuAl was the name IIRC. It used a front mounted hydraulic pump to operate the loader, which had both up/down and curl. That setup is probably ok to operate the loader--it didn't use the tractor hydraulics at all.

But as others have said, no way can you do serious dirt work with a 601 (or 801). It works ok for moving loose dirt, but can't dig..............

A 601 would do a great job pulling a bush hog...............

Best wishes,
ron

frank_f15 · May 31, 2005

Welcome to the forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif and now the bad news, for what you want to do the old FELS on that era machine were not suited for working dirt very well ( i know from experience) not really sure about that tractor or which fel is on it , but most would not curl past flat, nor did they have any down pressure. Also not sure you could put a BH on it. my idea would be to get a more modern CUT minus BH ( unless $$ is no object) then either hire the Bh work out or rent one when you are ready for it.

Donnyj · May 31, 2005

I used to have a 641 Ford. I think the 641 was a newer model than the 601. Same tractor from what I understand. I used a Massey Ferguson 1051 bush hog mower and it worked great. I also had a loader on the front with a front crank mounted pto pump. Loader was fast and strong, but not suited for heavy dirt work. The frame of the loader was always cracking. The tractor was not suited for a loader as well. The front end was to light for heavy work. The tractor was great for bush hogging and using a box grader. Good power out of the tractor. Just was not suited well for heavy loader work. Also with the loader on the front the tractor was very light on the rear. I had tires full of fluid and weights on the rear. Still not very stable. I had to put the mower on the back to feel comfortable when using the loader. My suggestion, stay away if you plan on using the loader alot. Mowing and grading the tractor will do fine. A loader on the front in my opinion makes the tractor dangerous, especially with no ROPS protection. Hope this helps and welcome aboard!!

RonR · May 31, 2005

Another thing: If the 601 doesn't have power steering that works, having a load on the front makes it almost impossible to steer. You will curse every hour you drive it with something in the bucket.....

Ron

Keith_B_ · Jun 1, 2005

( I used to have a 641 Ford. I think the 641 was a newer model than the 601. Same tractor from what I understand. I used a Massey Ferguson 1051 bush hog mower and it worked great. I also had a loader on the front with a front crank mounted pto pump. Loader was fast and strong, but not suited for heavy dirt work. The frame of the loader was always cracking. The tractor was not suited for a loader as well. The front end was to light for heavy work. The tractor was great for bush hogging and using a box grader. Good power out of the tractor. Just was not suited well for heavy loader work. Also with the loader on the front the tractor was very light on the rear. I had tires full of fluid and weights on the rear. Still not very stable. I had to put the mower on the back to feel comfortable when using the loader. My suggestion, stay away if you plan on using the loader alot. Mowing and grading the tractor will do fine. A loader on the front in my opinion makes the tractor dangerous, especially with no ROPS protection. Hope this helps and welcome aboard!! )

The 601 is the series, and the 641 is a particular tractor model within the series. The middle number was used to indicate how the tractor was equipped coming out of the factory. The 601 was available with different transmissions, like the four speed or the five speed stack shift, and with different types of PTOs, tranny or independent. Some even came with no 3PH and no PTO and were basically tow tractors.

SteveM · Jun 1, 2005

You have heard it already, but move on. This is not a good idea....going from no tractor experience to an antique is a tough leap, and most people end up frustrated or worse. The advice to hire out excavation is excellent, very few people really need a backhoe all the time, and it is a very expensive pce of equipment.

Good luck

Donnyj · Jun 1, 2005

Thanks for the info on the model designation.

Soundguy · Jun 1, 2005

Ok.. what you just saw is my 1955 ford 660 with a ford 722 1-arm loader. Those and the 711 loaders are a tad rare.. don't expect to see one like that.. but rather a more standard laoder with 2 arms and a slightly bigger bucket... Also.. notice that bucket.. they were called maneuer buckets.. Many of the loaders from that ere were similar... they weren't the big hulking loaders you see today. Not bad if you have some stock piled material.. -not real good at diging. Rear scoops dig fairly decently.

Backhoes were available at that time.. I've seen lots of 8ns with them... dearborn made a decent one. A buddy I know dug a pool and basement with one.. took probably 1.5x as long compaired to a 'real' backhoe you would see on a 30hp compact today.

Also.. power steering was optional on many of the hundred series.. as were other options.. like tranny and pto..

6** 4 wheel adjustable axle, 134ci gas / lp gas or 144 ci diesel

*X* 1- selectoospeed SOS, 2- 4 spd no pto/hyds, 3- 4spd no pto, 4- 4spd, 5- 5spd w/ tranny pto, 6- 5 spd w/ live pto, 7- SOS with 1spd pto, 8- SOS w/ 2 spd & ground drive pto

**X 1 built 1958-1962

It's a good strong machine.. like I said.. may have live pto, 5 spd tranny and power steering depending on model. The 5spd was nice compaired tot he 4 spd. On the 5 spd you have 2 gears top, middle, and bottom. on top, 3rd and revers are forward and back.. makes for almost like a 'shuttle shift.... 3rd still had decent power, and you ended up doing most of your work between 3rd and R...

If no PS.. then hang a big box or scrape blade on it... helps with steering. Here's a weight i made from concrete...

Great tractor if it is in good condition... Figure 33hp if gas.. will tote a 6' rotary mower..

As for mounting a loader.. the hundred series had more 'modern' tranny mounting holes on the R & L sides.

It's not your be-all-do all tractor.. but if it's engine is good,, you can drop in 6qts oil, filter, new plug wires, plugs, points, condensor, rotor, and cap for about 56 bucks from tractor supply... Add another 40$ if you do the tranny, hyds, and diffy oil as well.

Soundguy

Donnyj · Jun 1, 2005

Great looking tractor. I have never seen that type of loader. Alot of great information you put out there.

Soundguy · Jun 2, 2005

Yep.. it's a decent machinbe.. I'm tickled to death with mine. Even as old as it is.. the loader saves my back often.

The 711 loaders were power up, gravity down, and trip bucket. The 722 loaders were power up, gravity down, but had hyd 'curl', so you had power dump, and could do back dragging, etc. Again.. fairly rare.. but good workers.

The more common '2-post' loaders would dig a tad better due to not being offset mounted.

This doesn't show it well, but as I mentioned.. the hundred series had flat tapped boss's on the sides of the tranny to accept implements specifically like loaders, and subframes for mowers / backhoes, etc.

http://www.tractorshed.com/gallery/tphotos/a25225.jpg

here's a closer shot of the bucket. Many loaders had light duty/low capacity buckets called maneuer or muck buckets.. denoted by the large 'toothbar'.. great for digging into loose stockpiles.. those tines are over a foot long..... Mine has the plate attachment on it that fits up to the bucket, and lays over the tines...giving it more payload area, and only exposing about 3"-4" of tines. I's decent for scooping piled dirt.. even clay.. Here I am scooping some clay for my horse stalls.

Once we find out what version of the 601 series it is.. the options will be known.

Soundguy

CJC12 · Jun 3, 2005

Thank you all VERY much for the replies. Sorry for the delay on my part, I've been extremely busy.

The ditch that needs filling is a weird situation... It is basically water runoff from a couple streets that is emptied between my property and my neighbor's property (although the ditch is 90% on my property). For the past 50 years it has been eroding and is now about 20 ft deep and 300 ft long. The previous owner has tried taking legal action against the city to no avail. If I tried pursuing that avenue again it would probably cost me more in legal fees than it would cost to fix the problem.

My game plan is to obtain dirt from various sources when it is available (ie When people are trying to get rid of it). The tractor will just be used to transport "fluff" dirt from wherever it is dumped on my property.

If I can get enough dirt at once I will definitely consider renting something big (or hiring out like some of you suggest). But if I can only get a truckload here and there, a smaller tractor should suffice.

I'll try to go a couple feet at a time in order to get good compaction. Once filled, I will have someone lay an open brow ditch or the like.

Let me know your thoughts on all of this.

Now, back on topic about the tractor(s)!

I have been trying to contact the owner about the Ford 601 Series tractor. I will try to get the exact model and other information about the FEL as well. For some reason I neglected to mention in my first post that the owner said this tractor does have PTO.

Unless this tractor is in good condition and I can get it for a deal, I will probably move on... I have heard great things about these old Fords, so I'm not going to scratch it off the list just yet. Once I get some more details I/we will be able to make a more educated decision. If it doesn't have power steering that will be a big red mark. I didn't even think of that but it makes perfect sense and RonR spelled it out nicely.

"Another thing: If the 601 doesn't have power steering that works, having a load on the front makes it almost impossible to steer. You will curse every hour you drive it with something in the bucket....."

SteveM you made a great point as well.

"....going from no tractor experience to an antique is a tough leap, and most people end up frustrated or worse."

I really do have to consider that...

Also Steve, what you said about a backhoe is a good point as well. They are expensive and I could probably get all of my backhoe work done in a day on a rental as well. Great advice!

Soundguy, thanks for the great information. Once I find out the exact version I'll let you know and I'm sure you can give me another load of info. If it turns out to be one of the more "loaded" models I will give it some more thought. Right now I think I'm just looking for something that will be able to move dirt rather easily and be a real workhorse. Like I said earlier, I'm not going to rule this one out until I find what version it is. Beautiful tractor there by the way. That one arm loader is very cool looking!

Charlie, Frank, Donny, Keith and anybody else I didn't mention thanks for all of your input as well! It is much appreciated.

Additionally, I was thinking of making a new topic about this, but I'm not sure of the forum rules and I don't want to impose. Now that you guys know what I'll be using a tractor for, can someone suggest the best "bang for the buck" that fits this bill?

Used and in the $7k-$10k range.
Proficient FEL
Four Wheel Drive
PTO (for possible future implements)
Box Scraper (Optional)

Thanks!

Best Regards,
Carter

PS Charlie, I'm from Orange County, (Southern) California.

Soundguy · Jun 4, 2005

( SteveM you made a great point as well.
"....going from no tractor experience to an antique is a tough leap, and most people end up frustrated or worse."
)

I see that as a real point of view issue. As a matter of fact, I would imagine that if a person had 'modern' tractor experience.. then switched to an antique.. that's wher ethe frustration would be.. going from 4x4, hydro, PS, live everything, rops, etc.. to pan seat, gear tranny/tranny pto, gas engine.. 2wd no ps.. etc. To go from no tractor experience to an antique would probably be a neutral experience... imho.

( "Another thing: If the 601 doesn't have power steering that works, having a load on the front makes it almost impossible to steer. You will curse every hour you drive it with something in the bucket....."
)

Not incorrect.. but perhaps.. exagerated? A good large rear counterweight does offset the weight on a front end on a 2wd tractor with fel. Also.. when rolling.. steering isn't that bad.. it's when you try to start off 'dead' turning, and have no counterweight that a laoded bucket on a 2wd tractor is tough... Adding that counterweight to my 660 made it 'feel' like ps after moving clay with it all day, the day before.. It drove so much more smoothly after the counterweight.

( For some reason I neglected to mention in my first post that the owner said this tractor does have PTO.
)

That makes it a *4* or better.. if it does have pto, as 1,2,3 had no pto.. etc.

Soundguy

CJC12 · Jun 4, 2005

You bring up and interesting and seemingly valid point. I can sure attest to the fact that the saying "they don't make 'em like they used to" is pretty darn true. And like you say they are probably a lot simpler as well. Not so many gadgets and stuff. Throws a whole different spin on the situation…

The power steering issue still adds a little damper... I'm not gung-ho on adding weight. From what I’ve read people are adding weight so maybe it’s not a bad idea anyway. If the tractor does end up having PS all the better!

I'm still waiting for a response from the owner.

Again, thanks for the input. It's valuable indeed.

Best Regards,
Carter

Soundguy · Jun 4, 2005

Weight is easy to add. I did mine for less than 30 bucks.. mostly a tub of concrete bolted tot he drawbar.

If you are hanging a box blade on the back you could simply load it up with scrap iron.. railroad iron, suitcase weights.. or even barbell weights with easy to fab brackets.

good luck

Soundguy

LBrown59 · Jun 21, 2005

( My game plan is to obtain dirt from various sources when it is available (ie When people are trying to get rid of it). )
=============
 A good way to get free dirt and free hauling of it is when the state county or township is cleaning out road ditches is to have them dump it at your place. 

I have gotten a lot of free truck loads of dirt this way.

It's surprising how many dump truck loads of dirt are removed from a road side ditch when it's cleaned out.

The road crews have to haul and dump it somewhere and are willing to give it to you especially if it's a short haul from where they're working.

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