First welder advice

[tkappeler]

Trying to make sense of the vast knowledge in the threads and my head is spinning from searching and trying to weed through it all and figuring out what matters to me.

Background:

1) I have done stick welding a long (20+ years ago) time ago but can't say the welds looked as good as what I have seen here. I am not saying that they were bad, just that my memory of them is lacking. Maybe they were ok.

2) I have no MIG experience.

3) I have done LOTS of metalworking when younger: metal lathe, brazing, brass and aluminum castings, milling machines, acetylene work, etc.

3) My needs are related to building some fixtures, some implements, maintenance, etc for our 4 acre land and tractor (hooks, tree spade, etc).

4) I do not expect to weld more than 3/8" to 1/2" thick material.

I am looking to get my first welding setup and can see benefits of stick and mig but funds and overall use/$ value will force me to choose one. Any advice from the experts here would be appreciated.

 

[k0ua]

I am far from an expert, but if money is of a concern, I would suggest you get a good inverter DC stick machine to start, The cost is low and results in making good welds are high. If you have the money to spend, most people consider a good 220 volt MIG easier to learn on and can make good welds in the size ranges you are talking about, but you will need one of the higher end machines to do the 1/2 or consider making several passes. You mention having some stick experience already, and if the money is an issue I would tend to point you toward one of the Inverter DC units. I am very pleased with my Everlast PA160. I also TIG with it. It is scratch start old school TIG, but it is handy to do small work and sheet metal. The good news is you can add it on at any time as money permits. Get some good 7018 sticks and don't look back.




James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

I'm far from an expert too! In your case I would look long and hard at Everlast's PA-300, and Longevity's Stickweld 250. Reason being both have adjustable hot start, which makes it childs play to re-start 7018. Both have adjustable arc force, now that is just plain :cool2:

 

[jack707]

you want to welder that has a good duty cycle and DC has better penetration then AC just a few things to look at

 

[speedbump]

I welded with an old Lincoln Buzz Box for years in my Garage. I also welded with Welder/Generators by Lincoln and Miller when I was drilling wells and welding the pipe. Now I have a small Miller MIG welder and love it. Other than when the wire doesn't want to feed. I think my new stinger fixed that problem however. The nice thing about MIG is the ability to weld with wire and gas. No flux to chip off and no flux stuck in the weld where metal should be. And if you want to go over the weld immediately, you can. No Flux to worry about. They do make flux core wire, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Shield Arc]

They do make flux core wire, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Why do you say that? :confused3:

 

[tkappeler]

I'm far from an expert too!

Huh. Could have fooled me. :laughing:

I know that I want DC only given the overall comments here and elsewhere. Never tried it before.

Oh, BTW: my wife is looking forward to learning also. I am perfectly fine with that.

 

[rsallen]

For myself, who is far far beyond (below) a pro I didn't like the flux core because of the smoke and splatter associated with the combo.
However since then I've learned that with the proper amps and gas the flux core wire does indeed have a valuable place in the welding world if the splatter isn't a concern.

 

[Shield Arc]

Huh. Could have fooled me. :laughing:

Nope just a hobbyist!
You'll get more bang for your buck with a SMAW / stick welder. Only advantage to Mig welders are: They are fast, good for production work. Can weld thin material. But as k0ua mentioned you can buy a Tig rig for a stick welder and Tig weld thin material.
Bad things about Mig welders: Guys buy them and in just a couple hours of practice are making pretty welds. Pretty welds to the untrained eye. These same people don't know the difference between cold lap, and undercut. Cold lapped Mig welds can get you killed!

 

[speedbump]

Why do you say that?

Because your right back to chipping slag. At least I think you would be. I've never tried it for that reason. I was trying to get away from chipping slag, so the MIG was perfect for me. TIG I understand is more like soldering. Heat in one hand and a stick in the other. Being in Ham Radio, I solder a lot, but for what I do with a Welder, the MIG works better for me.

 

[rsallen]

That's another thing I've learned since starting to play with welding.
I only play, and if I have to have something that really counts.....it goes to someone that knows what they're doing.

I can get by.
But if it counts..............

Welding isn't a trade all it's own because of equipment cost. It's because there's a lot to know.

 

[tkappeler]

Welding isn't a trade all it's own because of equipment cost. It's because there's a lot to know.

Point taken.

 

[rsallen]

I don't know Shield Arc, it seems to me that the common problems you attribute to mig weld systems are just as endemic to stick units. You're really talking about operator faults and not equipment problems.
But I do agree that stick units are much more adaptable enre to different materials content and size.

 

[k0ua]

Because your right back to chipping slag. At least I think you would be. I've never tried it for that reason. I was trying to get away from chipping slag, so the MIG was perfect for me. TIG I understand is more like soldering. Heat in one hand and a stick in the other. Being in Ham Radio, I solder a lot, but for what I do with a Welder, the MIG works better for me.

Sort of like soldering but more like welding with an oxy-ace torch than anything. But of course you are melting the parent metal as well as the filler

 

[dlc2305]

I have a small Miller 140 MIG welder with a low cycle time that I have yet to max out more than a couple of times. Welding attachments for my JD 2305 and JD 317 has been the main jobs so far. Highly recommend the machine and setting-up with inert gas shield rather than flux core. Flux core requires reverse polarity that has less penetration and more difficult to weld. Little or no clean-up required with gas shield. Practice, practice, practice before starting projects; things will go much smoother. You could also do a Community College course and practice all types of welding before you purchase.

 

[edkemper]

That is my plan. The local Tech college offers a welding for dummies class to get one started and give us a chance to try different kinds of welding.

Forget cost for a moment, I'd like to buy the onboard welder Premier) for my truck so my welder and 120 plug are with me everywhere I go on my farm/ranch. Fencing or repairing equipment, my truck is with me.

 

[brin]

I have a small Miller 140 MIG welder with a low cycle time that I have yet to max out more than a couple of times. Welding attachments for my JD 2305 and JD 317 has been the main jobs so far. Highly recommend the machine and setting-up with inert gas shield rather than flux core. Flux core requires reverse polarity that has less penetration and more difficult to weld. Little or no clean-up required with gas shield. Practice, practice, practice before starting projects; things will go much smoother. You could also do a Community College course and practice all types of welding before you purchase.

Yes, I agree and I have a Clarke Mig 135 but I use primarily flux core for farm repairs...I get more penetration with flux core than gas not less

 

[MH8675309]

Mig is easier to learn. Stick on the other hand is better for rusty steel - mig wire will often roll off rusty steel since it is harder to get a ground with. If you know how to stick weld you can probably handle just about any other type of welding since it takes practice and eye to hand coordination. If mig is all you're able to do its similar to only being able to drive a vehicle with an automatic transmission. I ran miles of mig wire years ago when I was at the shop but now just have an AC/DC stick welder and it is more than sufficient. Just my opinion though,,

 

[Shield Arc]

Because your right back to chipping slag. At least I think you would be. I've never tried it for that reason.

That is very true with dual shield. And a lot of the gas-less fluxcore as well. Here is some NR-212 I ran, all the slag and splatter came right off with a wire wheel on a 4-inch grinder.

I don't know Shield Arc, it seems to me that the common problems you attribute to mig weld systems are just as endemic to stick units. You're really talking about operator faults and not equipment problems.

Don't get me wrong rsallen! I'm all for Mig / wire feeders. In the 70s I worked in a fab shop building nuclear waste tanks. The NRC required we retest on all processes every 3-months. Only one time I failed a 1-inch V-butt side bend test. It was vertical up with Mig. Reason I failed, I ran it too cold. What was really embarrassing, we had just got a new contract, and company was hiring more welders. The NRC inspector was over seeing the testing. Must have been 8 or 9 guys testing that morning. The inspector was busting guys out on looks alone. But he would bring them by me, and show them my test plates. Then he would say when your welds look like this come back and test again. Being as I worked there the inspector let me prep the plates, but only he was allowed to run the bender. You should have seen the look on his face when my coupons failed!:laughing:

 

[Arc weld]

I don't know Shield Arc, it seems to me that the common problems you attribute to mig weld systems are just as endemic to stick units. You're really talking about operator faults and not equipment problems.
But I do agree that stick units are much more adaptable enre to different materials content and size.

Lincoln is/was the largest welding equipment manufacturer in the world. They were VERY late to get on board with MIG welding, that's why they were pioneers in self shielded flux-core (Innershield). They wanted to try and turn stick electrodes inside out so they could be put on a continuous roll like MIG or sub-arc. The reason they were so late to get on the MIG band wagon was primarily because of cold lap. James Lincoln hated the fact that a weld could look almost perfect but basically just be sitting on the plate with little strength. With stick welding, you can generally tell by looking if you have decent fusion. Flux-core has so many different versions, it can be hard to know what someone is talking about just by saying flux-core. I will say the slag on flux-core generally comes off really easy. If you want the high deposition and penetration of flux-core with no slag to chip like MIG, you could always run metal-core wire. Are you confused yet?:confused3: