DIY logging winch build

[davedj1]

My first log.View attachment 544443View attachment 544442View attachment 544444View attachment 544445 View attachment 544441

NICE! It's a nice feeling isn't it?

 

[davedj1]

Well I pulled the drum off today, cleaned the clutch disc with some denatured alcohol (it was dirty) and then took a flap disc to the drum end, it had paint and rust pits on it, I shined it up pretty nicely and then wiped it down with the denatured alcohol. I put it back together and am waiting for it's next test run.

I did find one problem, the piece that is used to adjust the tension on the clutch ramp was binding on the shaft, 1" hole on 1" shaft and 1/4" material so I reamed the hole out and put a stop so the lever doesn't drop down to the left, I think it was actually starting to tighten up as it was going past center (if that makes sense) it gets moved to the right. I will probably install some linkage and the handle before it's next use just to be a little safer. Or at least some pulleys and some rope.

 

[davedj1]

Ok, another update!
I pulled the last 14' piece of the tree in today, I set the tractor at about 1500 rpm's, it came in rather quickly My tractor idles at about 800-900 rpm's
The Farmi and Fransgard both of which are commercially made units both have very similar set ups. The Farmi uses 6 pads and the drum is forced over into the sprocket, the Fransgard uses only 3 pads and also forces the drum over against the sprocket, the Norse is also a commercial unit, it is a little different in that it forces the sprocket over against the drum, it also uses just 3 pads.
I did some re work on the engagement mechanism today. I noticed that my wedge design was flawed in that as it turned to push, it also got loose at the other end (picture two wedges from a wheel of cheese and rotate one of them while keeping it level on one side). Then I had an epiphany, I need three wedges on the same diameter circle! While poking around TSC I spotted the steel halves of a Lovejoy connection, a light bulb went off! I bought two of them, took a cutting wheel and cut all the square tips into angles. One for the drum side and one for the tractor side I was limited to width at this point so I had to slice the parts on the band saw, that was a ***** trying to figure out how to hold them but I got it!
I haven't tried it yet, I'm hoping the angle isn't too steep but I should be able to force it with a longer handle? Or hydraulics
I did discover in doing this that the little thrust bearing I was using was destroyed, I think partially because the mechanism I was using was only pushing on one side and not equally. I removed it and greased up a 1" washer for the time being, I may need to get a bronze one of that size.
I suppose if this doesn't work I'll have to look into buying some Fransgard or Norse pads.
Here are some pics:
lovejoy jigged up to slice after it was cut on the angles:

different view:

and with it in place

So at least I even pressure around the thrust area , we will see
I forgot to add that now with this mod I have attained free spool ability

 

[Oldpath05]

I think your epiphany will work a lot better this time, as you said (even pressure around the thrust area) and free spool is a big plus. That last picture to me looks almost like the same idea on my Fransgard, your ramps are external, my ramps are internal but uses 3 floating pins set in ramp shape grooves between the front block and the block handle (3rd pic) and that pushes the spool against the brake pad sprocket, the three pins are in the tray nest to some bolts on top of winch in last pic.

Also the pull rope goes threw a small pulley then routes back to the pull side for more leverage or fulcrum. My winch is still apart, waiting for new bearings for the spool.

 

[Jstpssng]

I think your epiphany will work a lot better this time, as you said (even pressure around the thrust area) and free spool is a big plus. That last picture to me looks almost like the same idea on my Fransgard, your ramps are external, my ramps are internal but uses 3 floating pins set in ramp shape grooves between the front block and the block handle (3rd pic) and that pushes the spool against the brake pad sprocket, the three pins are in the tray nest to some bolts on top of winch in last pic.

Also the pull rope goes threw a small pulley then routes back to the pull side for more leverage or fulcrum. My winch is still apart, waiting for new bearings for the spool.
View attachment 544655 View attachment 544656 View attachment 544657 View attachment 544658

Looking at your pictures raises a couple of questions. Did you make the mechanism to hold the brake lever in place? Also, regarding your recent comment about the top pulley; perhaps a brace on top, so that all of the pressure isn't on the bottom of the pin? I never had the problem which you describe, yet by the time I sold it the frame was bent so badly that I had to adjust it (with my 16 lb sledgehammer) after the spool wore a groove through the outside housing.
Anytime I took my old Fransgard apart I would lay it on it's back which made things easier to get to.

 

[davedj1]

Thanks, I have considered actually ordering the engager from Farmi or the like. The problem with that is two fold, one it's made for a 35mm shaft, I have 1" shaft and two, I only have about 1 3/8" for room. The room could be expanded a little bit with some fab work.
I can't wait to try it again and see if I have any improvement.
One thing I am concerned with and it will take some creative fabbing to combat it is that the drum on the clutch side has some flex, that's not helping.
I'll try to get a better picture of my lever today, I think given it has some mechanical advantage with the linkage and being 2' long I can apply plenty of force.
Don't get me wrong, it will pull the log fine and probably "should" slip when it gets hung up on something. I just think it should have some more pulling power before it slips.

 

[Oldpath05]

Thanks, I have considered actually ordering the engager from Farmi or the like. The problem with that is two fold, one it's made for a 35mm shaft, I have 1" shaft and two, I only have about 1 3/8" for room. The room could be expanded a little bit with some fab work.
I can't wait to try it again and see if I have any improvement.
One thing I am concerned with and it will take some creative fabbing to combat it is that the drum on the clutch side has some flex, that's not helping.
I'll try to get a better picture of my lever today, I think given it has some mechanical advantage with the linkage and being 2' long I can apply plenty of force.
Don't get me wrong, it will pull the log fine and probably "should" slip when it gets hung up on something. I just think it should have some more pulling power before it slips.

Yes it hard to mix metric with inch, I think your going the right way, I was just comparing what I thought was the similarities of your idea and how Fransgard engages the clutch. As far as slipping, my 8mm cable usually breaks on my winch before clutch slips and or pulls tractor backwards, that's why I tend to do the hard pulls straight on so's not flip tractor over incase my reflexes are slow, and this is I think the smallest winch Fransgard makes.

 

[Oldpath05]

Looking at your pictures raises a couple of questions. Did you make the mechanism to hold the brake lever in place? Also, regarding your recent comment about the top pulley; perhaps a brace on top, so that all of the pressure isn't on the bottom of the pin? I never had the problem which you describe, yet by the time I sold it the frame was bent so badly that I had to adjust it (with my 16 lb sledgehammer) after the spool wore a groove through the outside housing.
Anytime I took my old Fransgard apart I would lay it on it's back which made things easier to get to.

Oh no, the pictures was supposed to raise answers. Ok atleast the 1st question easy, yes that mechanism by the brake holds the lever over, couple times while winching when tractor leaning a little, a tree bumps against something and jars the tractor a little and the locking dog would flop over or half catch the teeth on spool, the trees fall back on the ground, so I just tack weld that stud on there and the lever stays locked fully on teeth until I swing the lever back around. Next ???, I got to do some Sherlocking on that pulley ???

 

[davedj1]

DDDDRRRRRUUUUUMMMMMM ROLL PLEASE....
First of all I would like to thank everyone who contributed and helped me along this jouney
After a test today I am quite pleased with the results and can say it's done sans kick stand and paint.
I re worked the mechanism yesterday and I am definitely able to apply enough force to make the clutch engage to the point the log I was pulling in today got caught on a tree and the tractor got yanked backwards and I thought I heard the governor kick in It all happened quite quickly but I did know enough to release the lever
I just total'd up the receipts and was surprised to find it was a little more than I had thought it would be. Part of the reason was the milling, I hadn't anticipated having the spool center made, I am glad I did but it was a $115.00 add on.
I didn't go through the bills to break down each order as I ordered extra bearings, hubs etc. etc. so I have some spare parts.
All said and done not counting welding gas or wire I am into it for $648.71
In case you haven't kept up from the beginning I was shooting for $300 then realized it would be closer to $500 so all in all I'm happy with it. I did have the cable and the piece of 11 gauge but I estimated the 11 gauge at $25.00.
So again, thank you all and I can't wait to get it out and test it some more. I'm trying to upload a new pic to Imgur but it's being a pain in the arse! I added a piece of pipe to the handle and installed a motorcycle grip

 

[Oldpath05]

Well that's great and congradulations!!!, you know you got good pull when a winch will jerk your tractor around. If anyone can build a good working pto winch for $1000.00, he's doing alright, so if you dont put on $500.00 worth of paint your under budget in my book.

 

[Rustyiron]

:thumbsup:
Well done Dave!

 

[motoman3b]

Nice build dave, maybe I missed it somewhere but what keeps the clutch pad centered between the spool and sprocket?

 

[davedj1]

Nice build dave, maybe I missed it somewhere but what keeps the clutch pad centered between the spool and sprocket?

The center of the clutch was cut out and I bolted it to the sprocket.

 

[davedj1]

I got some paint on it today.

 

[Jstpssng]

That looks great. And although you may have gone over budget you still have considerably less into it than those of us who went out and bought one.

 

[Peter 315]

That looks great. And although you may have gone over budget you still have considerably less into it than those of us who went out and bought one.

Found this on CL Log Winch 3 Point hitch - farm & garden - by owner - sale

 

[Jstpssng]

Found this on CL Log Winch 3 Point hitch - farm & garden - by owner - sale

I would pass on that even if I could use it; besides the fact that it's too top heavy, the winch would be way too slow. There was a Fransgard on CL for the longest time for not much less than a new one; the guy had built a frame as wide as the winch and a couple of feet taller; then welded steel plate on. I don't think that you could even watch your load, it was so tall; and I can just imagine what would happen if you catch the frame on a solid limb.

 

[davedj1]

If you are interested, in this video you can see how they tighten up the clutch. I believe it to be an Igland winch. this is the idea I was going for. As near as I can tell it works quite well. I suppose if I had better machining techniques and better tooling I could have accomplished this. I had not seen this video until today, I only ever saw the Farmi and knew I couldn't use their type mechanism because I have no way to mill/cast the parts.
Maybe my ramp idea was too steep even though I thought it wasn't?
Mini Skidder - YouTube

 

[davedj1]

WELL DARN! I broke the winch today!
I loaded the tractor up and hauled it over to my buddies property to skid some trees for next years firewood. The first tree I hooked to was a 24' piece about 12" across at the butt, yanked it to the winch like a champ! I ran that one to the pile and came back for another larger Maple, I knew I couldn't haul the entire thing so I cut about 20' off the bottom which is about 20-21" across. I hooked it up, gave the lever a push and I heard a clunk, looked and didn't see anything too obvious so I gave it another push and heard a terrible clank,!
The Lovejoy connectors I made with the ramps the other day must be made from Chinese steel, the thing broke right in half
So I hauled it all home and parked the tractor in the garage. I'll pull the winch apart tomorrow and see if I can come up with a plan "C" or maybe back to plan "A"

Let's discuss the clutch for a bit. Can anyone confirm If I take the clutch off and cut every other pad off would it work any better? IE: grip more?
Or while I have it in the garage should I look for some brake pads from an ATV or something?
Thanks,
Dave

 

[pmsmechanic]

Ceramic pads grip a lot better. They also wear at the metal but I doubt that would be an issue.