herbenus
Gold Member
I had a similar thought: Build a gazebo on it, get some lawn chairs, fishing pole and ice chest. Then sit around watching how long it takes to deteriorate from creek action alone.
Demolishing Concrete Wall
- Thread starter centex
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theboman
Veteran Member
A dozer in the creek or an excavator can take it down pretty easily... Opps if that has been suggested.
The use excavators around here to demolish all kinds of buildings and structures. They can get a lot of leverage with those arms to pull things over.
The use excavators around here to demolish all kinds of buildings and structures. They can get a lot of leverage with those arms to pull things over.
Cdash
Silver Member
You may be fighting a loosing battle! Sure the wall can come out, and you can fill in and re-route the creek, but creeks, especially ones in sand, tend to migrate. The creek has found it's "happy spot" going around the bridge. If you force it back to where it was, it may just find it's way back, forcing you into a never ending battle.
Your much better off bridging over the water. I have seen too many bridges that are threatened by a moving channel, only to look back at the plans to see that they realligned the channel to make it fit the bridge better and it fights back to move back where it was in the first place. It will take the bridge out given enough time.
I am a Bridge Engineer and have inspected over 500 of them and designed 20 or so within the last 5 years.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do!!
Craig
Your much better off bridging over the water. I have seen too many bridges that are threatened by a moving channel, only to look back at the plans to see that they realligned the channel to make it fit the bridge better and it fights back to move back where it was in the first place. It will take the bridge out given enough time.
I am a Bridge Engineer and have inspected over 500 of them and designed 20 or so within the last 5 years.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do!!
Craig
The wall is spaced out from the bridge by about 2-3 inches. It touched at the ends but I have broken that away by hand. I think the whole wall has to go as a lot of water needs to go through the bridge. As it is the creel takes a hard 90 degree turn at the wall and this causes excessive erosion of the bank to the left of the bridge. Unless I can get the bridge opened and the stream straightened out I cannot hope to stop the erosion.
Is the wall attached to the bridge and if so how strongly ?
The wall is not attached to the bridge. It is close at the top and was touching at the abutments but not attached.
Can you work in the two feet of water or build some scafolding so you can work at the base of the wall and along the original retaining wall abutments?
This is possible but I would be afraid of the wall falling and knocking the scaffolding over. It seems might dangerous to me.
Are there gas powered jackhammers for rent available in your area?
Home Depot has one for $60/day but it is an 80# unit and seems a little too heavy for me to use on a 8' high narrow wall. At $60/day I could be looking at a lot of money in rental fees. It gets almost too hot and humid to work here after 10 AM. I could probably do fine in the Winter. It does not get cold here and I get hot very quick even when it is in the 30's.
Think about breaking the concrete away from the abutments, then hammering holes and a line at the water line along the length of the wall. Maybe even some vertical scores. Then use a winch to try and pull over the wall. It may break in tension where the line has been made at the bottom of the wall.
Consider your safety and the wall falling if you are at the bottom of it.
Once I can get my tractor onto the bridge I can very likely push the wall over. As it is now I can only get a spreader between the bridge and the wall. This attachment can only apply 1000# of pressure which is not enough to move the wall. There is nothing to attach a winch to for pulling the wall down.
On the light side:
It's such an idylic looking spot set up a chair, enjoy the spot with a beverage of your choosing, think about the job and call in some heavy equipment. A tracked hoe with proper attchments should make quick work of the seemingly long and arduous manual work facing you.
The real estate agent suggested this spot for sunbathing when we bought the land.
The wall is not attached to the bridge. It is close at the top and was touching at the abutments but not attached.
Can you work in the two feet of water or build some scafolding so you can work at the base of the wall and along the original retaining wall abutments?
This is possible but I would be afraid of the wall falling and knocking the scaffolding over. It seems might dangerous to me.
Are there gas powered jackhammers for rent available in your area?
Home Depot has one for $60/day but it is an 80# unit and seems a little too heavy for me to use on a 8' high narrow wall. At $60/day I could be looking at a lot of money in rental fees. It gets almost too hot and humid to work here after 10 AM. I could probably do fine in the Winter. It does not get cold here and I get hot very quick even when it is in the 30's.
Think about breaking the concrete away from the abutments, then hammering holes and a line at the water line along the length of the wall. Maybe even some vertical scores. Then use a winch to try and pull over the wall. It may break in tension where the line has been made at the bottom of the wall.
Consider your safety and the wall falling if you are at the bottom of it.
Once I can get my tractor onto the bridge I can very likely push the wall over. As it is now I can only get a spreader between the bridge and the wall. This attachment can only apply 1000# of pressure which is not enough to move the wall. There is nothing to attach a winch to for pulling the wall down.
On the light side:
It's such an idylic looking spot set up a chair, enjoy the spot with a beverage of your choosing, think about the job and call in some heavy equipment. A tracked hoe with proper attchments should make quick work of the seemingly long and arduous manual work facing you.
The real estate agent suggested this spot for sunbathing when we bought the land.
Might be easier to just leave the wall alone and build a new bridge from the old bridge to the road across the current creek channel. How far is it?
Actually that is what I though I had to do until recently. I had been told that the old bridge had washed out and all that was left was one landing. I thought it looked kind of funny though and I discovered that the whole bridge was there while picking black berries last month. A new bridge would have to be 60 feet long so filling in the area would cost a lot less. It will be a lot of work but I have more time than money. My neighbor, a retired surgeon who has had a lot of work done, thought a bridge would cost about $100,000.
Actually that is what I though I had to do until recently. I had been told that the old bridge had washed out and all that was left was one landing. I thought it looked kind of funny though and I discovered that the whole bridge was there while picking black berries last month. A new bridge would have to be 60 feet long so filling in the area would cost a lot less. It will be a lot of work but I have more time than money. My neighbor, a retired surgeon who has had a lot of work done, thought a bridge would cost about $100,000.
Just make sure the fill is heavily compacted and the sides well covered in riprap.
Yes I have lots of riprap available and I plan to make good use of it for this purpose. I have an old rock wall that is aroung 500 feet long and 4 feet high. I plan to use a lot of this for my house and the rest for things like this project. There never seems to be a shortage of rock here. It seems to grow in the fields.
Yes I have lots of riprap available and I plan to make good use of it for this purpose. I have an old rock wall that is aroung 500 feet long and 4 feet high. I plan to use a lot of this for my house and the rest for things like this project. There never seems to be a shortage of rock here. It seems to grow in the fields.
What about just leaving the wall there and drill holes in it? This means you would need to rent a drill to cut out the plugs. I know you said you dont want to rent equip but I'm not sure you have much choice. A long weekend like this one would let you put in quite a few holes for water flow. [/]
Unfortunately holes won't cut it. They would not let enough water through and I don't see much hope in trying to cut holes in 12" thick concrete.
Unfortunately holes won't cut it. They would not let enough water through and I don't see much hope in trying to cut holes in 12" thick concrete.
Okeedon, you just made me think about how complicated and hard this projest is going to be. I may have to look up someone to dynamite it for me. I am only a few mile from Fort Hood. Maybe I can get some of the Army guys to come over and do some training when they get back from Iraq.
Liquid Dynamite
This is interesting but they were talking about rocks which do not have rebar in them to keep them from cracking. I may try drilling some holes to see if it helps in breaking up the concrete. I believe it should help although I did not have any luck doing this in limestone when I was trying to drill fence post holes through it.
This is interesting but they were talking about rocks which do not have rebar in them to keep them from cracking. I may try drilling some holes to see if it helps in breaking up the concrete. I believe it should help although I did not have any luck doing this in limestone when I was trying to drill fence post holes through it.
Anonymous Poster
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Since the bridge is about 2-3 inches away from the wall, can you use feathers and wedges along the length of the wall and just knock it down that way? A bunch of hardwood wedges, a big pail of grease, a small sledge, and some patience probably would work.
micromike
Silver Member
I had a good size rock in the middle of an area where I was going to poor a slab floor for an addition. Had a similar problem as you. A friend suggested black powder. I drilled a series of holes in a line (they can be fairly small holes. I then drilled a one inch hole near the center of the line of smaller holes. I placed some cannon fuse in the hole and Packed black powder in with a wooden dowl. ( I don't want to insult anyones intelligence, but... please don't use a metal rod as they can cause a spark!) I then stuffed wadding (cotton rags) and then moist clay on top of that an inch or two deep to top off the hole. Lit the fuse and ran like heck. Actually, as it turned out I had plenty of time as the cannon fuse burned slow. Had some pretty good bangs and it did fracture the rock enough that with a pry bar we could break it up pretty easily.
Sometimes though it went off like a roman candle. Just kind of spewed sparks out the hole. Over time we learned to pack it better and had better success. We also learned if we placed dirt, clay and other weight on top of the area we were blasting it worked better to spead the blast down and out instead of just up. A tarp over that with more dirt heaped on helped contain the blast.
The normal cautions apply! I'm not suggesting anyone try this, especially if they don't know what they are doing. I'm just passing along what worked for me! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Mike
Sometimes though it went off like a roman candle. Just kind of spewed sparks out the hole. Over time we learned to pack it better and had better success. We also learned if we placed dirt, clay and other weight on top of the area we were blasting it worked better to spead the blast down and out instead of just up. A tarp over that with more dirt heaped on helped contain the blast.
The normal cautions apply! I'm not suggesting anyone try this, especially if they don't know what they are doing. I'm just passing along what worked for me! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Mike
Egon
Epic Contributor
Many road construction blasting sites use mats made from discarded tires to cover the area and prevent debri from flying around.
Have you considered using some fertilizer as a helper?
What size black powder did you use?
Egon
Have you considered using some fertilizer as a helper?
What size black powder did you use?
Egon
Egon
Epic Contributor
Centex:
There are concrete hole cutters that will handle rebar. I'm not sure what size they go up to but the one I saw in use was a 12 inch diameter and could go througfh a 12 inch wall. They have a diamond toothed core bit that looks the same as a hole saw for wood or metal but without the center bit. This one used water for cooling and used hydraulics to advance it into the concrete.
Egon
There are concrete hole cutters that will handle rebar. I'm not sure what size they go up to but the one I saw in use was a 12 inch diameter and could go througfh a 12 inch wall. They have a diamond toothed core bit that looks the same as a hole saw for wood or metal but without the center bit. This one used water for cooling and used hydraulics to advance it into the concrete.
Egon
Anonymous Poster
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How about hiring someone with a trackhoe to pull it down and pile the chunks where you need the fill? Sounds like you could kill two birds with one stone that way. I'd use an acetylene torch to burn the rebar between the pieces of broken concrete if necessary.
CTyler
Veteran Member
Ok.
There is a guy a couple miles up the road that has an entire walls made out of concrete plugs. They are all aprox 12-14" long and 8-10" around. He must have thousands of these things.
There is a guy a couple miles up the road that has an entire walls made out of concrete plugs. They are all aprox 12-14" long and 8-10" around. He must have thousands of these things.
RMulkey
Silver Member
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Centex,
I have not see anybody mention just renting a large backhoe (JD 710D) or excavator (JD 220LC) with a hydraulic breaker. I have used a 710D with a breaker to remove several solid granite bolders the size of semi trucks without much trouble. In central CA, it costs$450 per day for the larger BH and breaker plus $70 delivery. The Excavator is $1100 per day with the breaker.The BH should be fine for this size job. Depending on what creek bottom, you may be able to drive to the site in the creek.
For about the same price you can hire someone to do the work as long as the waste material can stay on site, , but what fun would that be.. Then again, how often to you get a valid reason to use explosives. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I have not see anybody mention just renting a large backhoe (JD 710D) or excavator (JD 220LC) with a hydraulic breaker. I have used a 710D with a breaker to remove several solid granite bolders the size of semi trucks without much trouble. In central CA, it costs$450 per day for the larger BH and breaker plus $70 delivery. The Excavator is $1100 per day with the breaker.The BH should be fine for this size job. Depending on what creek bottom, you may be able to drive to the site in the creek.
For about the same price you can hire someone to do the work as long as the waste material can stay on site, , but what fun would that be.. Then again, how often to you get a valid reason to use explosives. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
Morning Don,
The water factor does compromise most of my normal responses to such a beast. I like electric chipping hammers.
I suggest first changing the situation from a single big problem into a series of small problems. I would do this with a good concrete saw. I have a Stihl570 or some such with a diamond blade and it loves concrete.
I'd start by making a vertical cut as deep as the blade will go about ten to twelve inches in from one end. I'd do the cut about two feet in length. I'd then stand on top of the wall and swing my twenty two pound sledge, just a time or two would be my guess.
I'd repeat this process across the top. When I had the wall two feet shorter I'd start all over again.
Another option is renting a hydraulic power source if your tractor doesn't have the auxillary ports to run a hydraulic jackhammer and saw.
They have hydraulic jack hammers. The last time I priced one they were about twenty five hundred dollars while a pneumatic one was less than a grand.
You could also rent a hundred cfm compressor with a rotary hammer and a sixty pound chipping hammer. You'd need extra hose but that wouldn't hurt the effeciency of the tools. If you did it on a long weekend you're looking at three or four hundred dollars and a ton of fun.
With the rotary hammer you could drill vertical holes destroying the integrity of the wall. Then with the chipping hammer you could take advantage of the moment. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The water factor does compromise most of my normal responses to such a beast. I like electric chipping hammers.
I suggest first changing the situation from a single big problem into a series of small problems. I would do this with a good concrete saw. I have a Stihl570 or some such with a diamond blade and it loves concrete.
I'd start by making a vertical cut as deep as the blade will go about ten to twelve inches in from one end. I'd do the cut about two feet in length. I'd then stand on top of the wall and swing my twenty two pound sledge, just a time or two would be my guess.
I'd repeat this process across the top. When I had the wall two feet shorter I'd start all over again.
Another option is renting a hydraulic power source if your tractor doesn't have the auxillary ports to run a hydraulic jackhammer and saw.
They have hydraulic jack hammers. The last time I priced one they were about twenty five hundred dollars while a pneumatic one was less than a grand.
You could also rent a hundred cfm compressor with a rotary hammer and a sixty pound chipping hammer. You'd need extra hose but that wouldn't hurt the effeciency of the tools. If you did it on a long weekend you're looking at three or four hundred dollars and a ton of fun.
With the rotary hammer you could drill vertical holes destroying the integrity of the wall. Then with the chipping hammer you could take advantage of the moment. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anonymous Poster
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I'm confused on some things here.
You want to remove the concrete, but you want to fill in the washout first - won't it just wash out again? You need to get rid of the concrete first, and then fill in the washout????
You keep saying you can't get any kind of power or tractor to the bridge. Most of the time one can drive in the bottom of a creekbed. Have you considered this?
Also, why can't you drive onto the bridge from the other side? Are you saying both sides are washed out?
Sure would hire someone to break it out if it were me, that's the job that needs to be done first, get it done & then deal with the rest of the issues as I could. But you need the water flowing right as a fist step.
So, where did the other owner expect the water to go, didn't he make a spillway & all that? Sheez.
--->Paul
You want to remove the concrete, but you want to fill in the washout first - won't it just wash out again? You need to get rid of the concrete first, and then fill in the washout????
You keep saying you can't get any kind of power or tractor to the bridge. Most of the time one can drive in the bottom of a creekbed. Have you considered this?
Also, why can't you drive onto the bridge from the other side? Are you saying both sides are washed out?
Sure would hire someone to break it out if it were me, that's the job that needs to be done first, get it done & then deal with the rest of the issues as I could. But you need the water flowing right as a fist step.
So, where did the other owner expect the water to go, didn't he make a spillway & all that? Sheez.
--->Paul
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