Chain Saw Advice

[SPIKER]

thankyou snofalls for the reply above:

I wasn't dirercting the post I made regarding sity slickers clear cutting at YOU but in general. what you orriginally proposed seemed to state that you were /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As part of my land-clearing activities I need to remove quite a few trees.

Lets estimate ~100 over the next 3 or 4 years.
)</font>
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I suggested contacting a forester and someone with land management training yo set up a plan. I also gave info regarding how to safely go about etting done what you wished. around here farms are getting bought up left & right usually by a developer/realtor broken up into small lots and clear cut and virtually laid waste too.
anyhow I'll leave this post to go as it will.

Mark M

 

[daveh1]

Curly Dave, I've got a 16" Husqvarna that I love. I've never owned a Stihl but I have owned most of the others. I plan on sticking with the Huskys. A 350 Husqvarna would probably do most any thing you want. Also I think the Husky's seem to be easier getting parts or service. Just my .02 worth. Daveh1 Mitsubishi D-2050 and Honda Rancher /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif <font color="red"> </font>

 

[CurlyDave]

I wasn't dirercting the post I made regarding sity slickers clear cutting at YOU but in general. what you orriginally proposed seemed to state that you were...

Well, I don't know know how you do math in Ohio, but out here, even us city slickers can figure out that 100 trees taken out of 40 acres is 2.5 trees per acre. Even on my poor and rocky soil I have over 100 trees per acre.

around here farms are getting bought up left & right usually by a developer/realtor broken up into small lots and clear cut and virtually laid waste too.

Around here, trees are considered a crop and we know the difference between "sustainable harvest" and clear cutting.

I suggested contacting a forester and someone with land management training yo set up a plan.

Already done. And by someone who has actually seen (and walked) the property and understands local conditions in Josephine County, Oregon. Which happen to be significantly different from those in the next county over. Out here on the left coast, we have what are called "microclimates" where rainfall, soil types and average temperatures will vary dramatically over very short distances.

Just for everyone's information, the plan calls for thinning much of the forest. I didn't include this usage in the chain saw estimate since the forestry consultants seemd to be concerned with maximizing the potential for harvestable timber, even though the land is poorly suited for that.

I may well want to manage the land primarily for visual appeal and wildlife habitat, with harvestable timber a second or third place goal. However, I don't need to worry about cutting a a few dozen scrub oak, madrone, and manzanita (species I don't even think you have in Ohio) in the short term. Over the long term, trees are a slow growing crop, and I have years to design and implement the plan I really want.

I asked for advice on chain saws, and I estimated the useage I expected to give it. This is background information necessary to make a recommendation. It is not an invitation for unwanted, and just plain incorrect, advice on land management, especially when it is plain and obvious that 100 trees over the next few years is not going to come anywhere even close to "clear cutting" -- a concept you still don't seem to grasp, as evidenced in your latest post.

I appreciate your advice on the subject of chain saws. OTOH, when you add in some negative (and at a minimum, uninformed) comments on land and resource management, from the other side of the continent, most folks are not going to appreciate it.

I tell you what, you run your farm the way you want. I'll run mine the way I want.

 

[Cottonhawk]

CurlyDave,
I move out to the country in 2004 and never owned or used a chainsaw when I lived in the city. I now own several chainsaw...a Shindaiwa 488 with 20" bar, an Echo 14" trimming saw, couple of prunners. My newest addition is a Stihl MS361 with 24" bar. I would suggest that you at least check out Shindaiwa and Stihl. They are both wonderful chainsaws. As far as safety goes, I suggest that you use all the safety gears when you operate the saw.

 

[osprey]

<font color="blue"> When I grab a Stihl, I am in for a frustrating 10 minutes of cranking, fiddling with the choke, feathering the throttle, cussing and promising myself that I will no longer listen to the sales guys at my local farm store talk about the superiority of Stihl. </font>

A Stihl for the most part starts easy,I would say your Stihl product needs to go to the dealer and have a good tune up.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Personally, I am awful about small engine maintenance. I always think I will use it "one more time" in the fall, then forget about it and in the spring, the gas has been sitting in it all winter .... when I grab a Stihl, I am in for a frustrating 10 minutes of cranking, fiddling with the choke, feathering the throttle, cussing and promising myself that I will no longer listen to the sales guys at my local farm store talk about the superiority of Stihl. </font>

I think that if you put some fresh fuel and a new plug in your Stihl it would run very nicely.

I don't judge the "superiority" of a piece of power equipment by how much neglect it can tolerate, but rather by how it functions when given adequate/minimal maintenance.

On topic: I'd recommend a Stihl MS260 Pro with a 16" bar and .325 chain. This is one of the finest chain saws ever built and should last a lifetime and perform beautifully. I highly recommend the Stihl Rollamatic ES bar (solid, not laminated), and when that wears out, an Oregon PowerMatch. Also seriously consider using non-safety chain; if you keep a firm grip on your saw and use it sensibly, kickback is not likely to harm you.

You're right on target with your list of safety equipment; logging helmet with face screen, chaps, gloves optional, and I'd add a pair of safety glasses for those little bits of flying wood and dust that happen to get past the screen. Chainsaw-resistant boots would be a nice touch, but good heavy boots should be OK.

Check out the thread "Felling a split tree" for general tips on tree felling. In general, a notch cut that is around 1/4 the diameter of the tree and a hinge that is about 1/10 the diameter of the tree are good guidelines. The felling cut is made level to the ground, not down at an angle, and should be made just slightly higher than the "v" of the notch cut. Get yourself three 10" or 12" plastic wedges for persuading trees with mildly unfavorable leans, and resist the temptation to leave too thick a hinge when pulling a tree over. Ten percent is all you need in a healthy tree; more than that, and you can easily barber-chair the tree (have it split up the middle, with the hinge not coming into play).

Watch for widow-makers (branches that might fall/break off during felling/fall on you and kill you), always have an exit route planned out for when the tree starts to go, avoid getting a tree hung up in another, and if you're not sure of what you're doing, don't do it.

Respect the wind, and don't cut through your hinges. Good tip about having a spare bar and chain with you; if you pinch your bar, detach your saw from it and put on the spare bar and chain. Then free the bar by mechanical means, such as pulling on the tree with a good bull rope attached to your drawbar. A 150', 9/16" Samson Stable-braid bull rope from Sherrill arborist supply will serve you very, very well; they're around $120 I think. A $10, 12-oz. throwbag, also from Sherrill, will help you throw it up into the tree. Learn to tie a running bowline for the end of the rope that attaches to the tree, and a bowline on a bight for attaching the rope to a shackle on your drawbar.

Once the bar is unstuck, continue the felling cut until you've got your 10% hinge, and pull her over.

On your hilly terrain, pay extra careful attention to how the tree is going to behave when it lands. They can roll, bounce and kick quite a bit, and can easily harm you, your tractor or your saw when they land on uneven ground.

If you have any doubts that your tractor is heavy enough/has enough traction to control the tree, don't use it. The bullrope is good for about 12,000 lbs. and your tractor will go flying. (No, I do not know this from personal experience). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Whatever you do, be careful. Trees are heavy and you can't fool physics. Take baby steps if you need to, build up your confidence, and then never get over-confident. Constantly respect and consider what can go wrong, and keep yourself out of trouble. Don't take chances. When you're about to take one, you'll know it. When that happens, stop, and make another plan.

Good luck,

John

 

[3RRL]

Hi John,

Great to see you post on this thread. I think we were all waiting for some "expert" advice from you. Hope this writing finds your health doing better.
Best Regards,

 

[billbill1]

Very well put John!!

 

[RFB]

John,

What is the difference between the "MS 260" and the "MS260 Pro"? On the Stihl comparison page under "Professional Chain Saws" they are both listed:

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/comparison.html

but I have not been able to determine the difference.

RFB

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

RFB -

The only differences that I know of for sure are that the 260 Pro has a decompression valve for easier starting, and an adjustable oiler (to regulate how much bar oil is used). Those are both very nice features to have, especially the decompression valve.

There's also a chance that some of the engine internals are different to give the Pro model added longevity, but I do not know that for a fact. I bet if you poked around on arborsitsite.com you might be able to find out more about that.

John

 

[Clyde]

I guess I started out as a "city slicker" in my earlier days. I bought a 16" Poulan that would probably best best described a an occasional limb trimmer and I still have and use it today. I wouldn't or couldn't guess as to how many 30" trees I dropped with it. 20 years later, forestry became my favorite hobby and I picked up a Stihl Farm Boss with an 18" bar. Both saws are excellent and if I had to summarize the pros and cons is that the Poulan is an excellent "limber". Light in weight and with a sharp chain...outperforms or is equal to many other more expensive saws. The smaller chain however allows less sharpenings before it is relegated to the iron pile. The Stihl is heavier but also can handle any tree I have to drop. The chain is heavier and many sharpenings are built into the beef of the cutting blade. I use the respective manufacturers oil in each of them and run them weekly. I think sitting on the shelf for months at a time are the only factor that leads to hardstarting. At temperatures at 10degrees below, I might have to pull the start cord 6 - 8 times before I see sign's of life. Incidentally, both saws are on the original spark plugs with the Poulan having at my best guess 300 hours on it and the Stihl 500 hours.

As for cutting down all of the trees on an acre of land, that is up to debate and the condition of the forest itself. I have red oak trees that soar 50 foot into the sky, straight as an arrow, 28" in diameter or more, and those trees form the genetic pool of what I want to see. Trees that have a definite crotch formed 6' above the ground are useless as lumber and best for firewood for example Those, along with the trees that seem to grow sideways instead of upwards are the first trees I cull. Useless once again for nothing but firewood. Next we look at the useless and nutrient grabbing trees like ironwood and poplar. Not big money producers in any respect. In short, why grow crap trees when something more desireable could occupy that same space? We control the weeds in a cornfield, kill thistles in a field, and a forest is no different. Controlled management shows more concern for the environment than doing nothing at all. I also take wildlife into consideration in my management practices. Hollow trees are homes and nests to many animals and ultimately, they control the insects.

Every person has a right to an opinion. I think the biggest sore spot is an outsider outbidding us on a piece of land and driving up the prices of land and ultimately our land values and taxes. My Dad always preached to his kids that land is the best investment in the world because we'll never have anymore than what we have now. I am also a firm believer in the fact that just because I am steadfast in my opinions, the other guy might have a better idea of the "big picture" than I do. I have to respect his rights also. Clyde

 

[osprey]

<font color="blue"> useless and nutrient grabbing trees like ironwood and poplar. </font>

Poplar trees bringing about 40 cents a board foot,not useless in the least.There is a market for poplar,staves..poplar is a good wood to work with and resists weather well.It will not bring as much as a good oak but it is not trash by no means.

 

[CurlyDave]

Thanks for the reply John.

Now you have given me a problem though--some say Husky, some say Stihl.

I suspect what I am going to do is go out looking at the local dealers Friday morning. I will look at the pro models of both Stihl and Husky.

I learned a long time ago that the few extra $ spent on a top of the line tool were well worth it.

I don't know yet what I will come back with, but it will be one or the other -- the one that feels best in my hands. I already have chaps and gloves. The helmets I looked at were all missing the face shield, so I will get one with this part.

Chain Saw boots are on my list, and if the place I get the saw has them, I will get a pair.

Thanks to all.

 

[Defective]

Here goes the big brand debate...

My 2¢ worth:

I've been using chainsaws as long as I can remember. My current collection consists of Huskys that I purposely shopped for, Stihls that I bought on sale and other brands that appeared as if by magic.

I can spend a long day with a running Husky in my hands.

A couple of hours with a Stihl and my joints start to hurt.

Both saws are top-notch and I'll never hesitate to grab either for a quick job. (take a tree down or buck it...) but I want a saw that won't vibrate my joints to death if I'm going to be at it all day.

I'll vote for the Husky. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

P.S.: Huskys are easier to find when you drop 'em in the snow...

 

[kn6md]

I have found that if I treat my gasoline when I buy it with Stabil the fuel is always "fresh". Two Stroke or Four Stroke-doesn't matter--Lawnmowers, weed whacker, pressure washer, enging driven welder, generator, whatever. No need to get gunk/varnish out of a carb because I guess there never is any. Starts quickly after sitting all winter, all summer, or all the time. No end of season fooling around with fuel, draining tanks, trying to figure out what do do with what you drained.

I just run Stabil treated fuel all year. A couple of ounces does 5 gallons.

Sounds like you have a great place and I think you are in for a lot of great fun every day.

 

[Clyde]

Osprey- "useless" was probably a poor choice of terms on my part. However, I don't know where a property owner could possible expect to receive $.40 a board foot for poplar logs. If you are gauging your statement by what you pay at at the chain lumber yards....yes, definitely. The market around here ranges from $35 to $50 dollars for a full cord of poplar. Add to that the cost of trucking it to the paper mills or finding a buyer and you are lucky to get $20.00. I guess it all depends on the part of the country you live in. Weather resistant? As long as the poplar is protected from the elements, it will last indefinitely. So will cottonwood. Expose either to rain or stick a post in the ground and it will rot off in 5 years. Leave it lay on the damp ground and it is rotted in 3 years. I myself use popple for drawers in woodworking for the bottoms and backs. Around here, either you sell it to a paper mill or sell it to a pallet factory.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers Osprey, but that's the way I perceive poplar in this area. Going by your figures, if I had a poplar log 22" in diameter and 8' long, that single log would be worth $64.80. That is darn good money - I will admit that much. The problem as I see it is that the market up here doesn't support those prices or close to it.
Clyde

 

[BarryinMN]

Here in NC MN a neighbor culls Poplar for firewood. Pays $20-25 per acre and sells a cord for $60-80, more to city slickers.

Further North a delivered & stacked dry hardwood cord runs $140. The stacking part takes a 50 yard hike behind the house so costs extra /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A local sawmill sells slabwood for about $50 cord delivery included. He sells by the truckload so it's a 4-5 cord minimum.

 

[Clyde]

Barry - It's is tough to argue something when you have the proof in arguing what poplar sells for in your area. Supply and demand and whatever the market will bear are the limiting factors. I have a tough time or I should say it is incomprehensible for me to fathom why a person would pay $50.00 per cord for slabwood when I can buy the entire log in 1 cord quantities for less than that and get something to burn besides bark. Then I still would have to cut it into firewood lengths and split some of it besides. I guess I should have taken a class in the "new math" or "fuzzy logic" Incidentally, are we talking full or face cords for the cut and split firewood for $140.00? A face cord of oak sells for $45.00 around here and that is dumped in your driveway. At the burn rate of poplar and if that is all your neighbors sells in his firewood, the consumer might be better off looking for an alternative fuel.

Just me opinion guys - Clyde

 

[osprey]

I timber my own land and I have taken some 16' x 18" logs in and gotten $40.00 to $50.00, these are nice straight logs I then leave the tops lay. The guy that hauls them for me hauls between 2500 to 3000 ft per load.The only thing we use for fence posts are locust posts and treated posts and Tposts. Oak or anything else other than locust and treated will rot off. I have seen locust pots that have been in the ground for 60 years.
I have cut some poplars that are 100' from the bottom of the stump to the very top of the tree,you find these in the deep hollows reaching for the sunlight. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Clyde]

Osprey - If we learned anything from this forum, localities and markets set the prices. I too manage my own woods and logging is sort of like playing the stock market - and that means the prices fluctuate. My words were never meant to start an argument but I was relating as to what I experience here in my area. I look forward to your posts and hear your side of the "big picture" in the future. Incidentally, I have white oak fence posts in the ground and the only preservative they had was to char the end that went into the ground. My grandfather put those exact fence posts in, in 1930. Take care my friend - Clyde