BX 23, sputtering and hard/won't start

[/pine]

sorry if you already know this...
Diesel injector pumps pump more fuel than the injectors inject...excess fuel is returned to the fuel system...that is what is visible in the second pic...it is low pressure thus the spring clamp...

 

[safar]

Thank you everyone for your replies; Still haven't gotten it resolved but based on all your suggestions here's what I did;

I opened the return fuel line as /pine suggested (And I didn't know about that, so thanks)
When turning the key, I did get fuel squirt through that rubber line - I didn't think there was water, but can't be sure, but atleast I know the fuel is running all the way through.

I then opened the connections at the injectors.
The 1st, had some diesel squirt out - no foaming or bubbling, so tightened that back.

The 2nd, had some foaming, so I continued to crank for about 10 seconds and the engine started up. It still looked like it was foaming slightly, so I let it run for a minute and then when I went to turn the key off the engine wouldn't shut down and had to turn the lever next to the engine.
*is the engine supposed to be able to start with that disconnected?

I tried the 3rd injector and that just looked like a bit of diesel squirting - no foaming, so tightened that down.

It still wouldn't turn on but I suppose as JWR suggested I might have had water and have run it back to the fuel tank.

I thought the not turning off had something to do with the fuel shutoff solenoid after reading about this in a few other posts and I had just enough time to go get a new one from the Kubota dealership. Connected that, still had trouble turning on but it did for a minute while still sputtering, but still wouldn't switch off, so again had to turn off with the lever.

After all the cranking the battery died, so i'll charge it back up overnight and not sure what to try next.

Could the not turning off have anything do do with this problem or just a chance that it's come up at the same time? Since the new solenoid didn't fix this, any thoughts on what that could be about?

Should I try opening the fuel connections at the injectors again and see if I get any hissing / foaming?

Did I perhaps have water and need to drain the fuel and put new filters all over again?

Again - sincerely appreciate all the help.

 

[/pine]

There may be a fuse for the cut off solenoid...have you checked to see if it's getting voltage when the key is on...just in the ON position should get juice to the solenoid...


edit....
sorry...not the issue...

 

[safar]

There may be a fuse for the cut off solenoid...have you checked to see if it's getting voltage when the key is on...just in the ON position should get juice to the solenoid...

Thanks - will check that first thing in the morning.

 

[JWR]

No, I would not open up the lines at the injectors anymore just now. Of course the separate issue of being able to shut down using the normal fuel shutoff solenoid has to be solved but that still leaves the original puzzle. Have you had a chance (since you killed the battery again) to just retry and start it? If it runs long enough it MIGHT just clear it's throat and run. If not, it still seems to be a fuel issue. At this point there is just too much going on. First with the battery charged up see if you can start it and keep it running. You said it ran "a minute" when you were bleeding the high pressure lines. I suspect if it will keep running it may clear after some time running. If NOT then I would resort to what amounts to an IV bag full of new clean fuel held high enough to guarantee flow of clean fuel to the injection pump. Make the connection from the temporary fuel supply to the input line of the injection pump. Probably have to jury rig some hose connections out of the parts bins at Lowes or Tractor Supply.

I refer to it as an "IV bag" hospital terminology but I think you know what I mean -- some container that will hold a quart or so of diesel fuel and gravity feed the makeshift temporary line straight to the injection pump bypassing the entire rest of the fuel plumbing. You will of course have to make provision for where the fuel goes coming from the lift pump that would normally be headed for the injection pump [like into a spare fuel can or whatever.]

This temporary rig should allow you to start and run the engine for a few minutes which verifies the injection pump, injectors, and engine are OK. If that passes muster you then have the chore of working your way backwards toward the tank until you find the culprit.

p.s.: don't ignore the possibility that you have an air leak somewhere that is causing the injection pump to be sucking air bubbles in with the fuel. Could be anywhere that you have rubber/neoprene hoses with clamps, etc.

 

[safar]

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense.
Haven’t been able to try again since the battery died but will run through the steps you outlined tomorrow.

I like the “iv bag” idea to try and atleast make sure the injectors and engine are ok.

Since it’s lived outside, I have been thinking there might be some hose leak letting in air somewhere and will try working through this backwards too.
Thank you again for atleast giving me a starting point / this has been so stressful and frustrating.

 

[dodge man]

I hate to beat a dead horse but did you change the fuel filters yet? I know you are getting fuel but are you getting enough? I keep bringing it up because I had a BX for 10 years and had mine plug up more than once. It would still run but poorly.

 

[safar]

I hate to beat a dead horse but did you change the fuel filters yet? I know you are getting fuel but are you getting enough? I keep bringing it up because I had a BX for 10 years and had mine plug up more than once. It would still run but poorly.

Hi - yes changed fuel filters and drained tank and refilled with fresh diesel.
I tried to bleed the lines after changing these so there is a possibility if there was moisture, I flushed it back.

I’m going to start with just trying to start it up today and then as JWR suggests, try to get fresh fuel right at the fuel injection pump and if that gets it running work backwards.

 

[TractorTech]

The not shutting off could be a blown fuse (I believe 30A FMX?) located on the rh side of the engine side rail or simply that your battery is too weak to energize the solenoid to kill the engine.

 

[safar]

Ok, so some updates from this morning.
JWR, your instinct that since it started for a minute yesterday it might just start again when the battery was charged was spot on.
It was still a bit of a hard start but started up - the issue then was that as soon as i let go of the key (fully turned) it turned off.

I managed to get it started a few more times and it stayed started as long as I held the key, but switched off as soon as i let go.

I didn't want to keep doing that as i don't know how harmful that it until i came back here and asked.

I feel that's some forward progress that I could atleast get it to start 6-7 times.
Now, I don't know how to address the starting and key release issue.

If I know how to deal with that and get it started, i could atleast let it run for a few mins and see if it still sputters.

The not shutting off could be a blown fuse (I believe 30A FMX?) located on the rh side of the engine side rail or simply that your battery is too weak to energize the solenoid to kill the engine.

I'll go check on the fuse this morning - I only thought to check the fuses by the battery and they all looked good, but I had drained the battery yesterday so it was definitely weak when that happened.

Can't thank you all enough -