BX 23, sputtering and hard/won't start

[safar]

Having a real issue getting my BX 23 to start.
I crank it to the point the battery feels like it would die. Sometimes it starts and immediately shuts down, other times it starts perhaps sputters for a few minutes and then shuts down.
I thought it's probably a fuel issue as it's been sitting for a while. Drained the tank, put fresh fuel, changed the filters but no luck.

I disconnected the filter line after the second filter (next to the engine), turn the key one step and get fuel flowing out, so I know I have fuel working up to that point. (pic attached of where I disconnected)

Would really appreciate any thoughts - I seem to feel it's a fuel issue, but don't know what else to try.

 

[seville009]

Can’t hurt to check the air filter - make sure there’s not a critter nest in there blocking the air

 

[/pine]

You might crack one of the fuel return lines to make sure there is good fuel returning...no water...

 

[safar]

Thanks so much - checked and replaced the air filter too..
Sorry, I don't think I know how to crack the return fuel lines...Would you be able to point me to how to do this? I'll search of course, but never had to do that.

 

[JWR]

I do not see any mention of having bled the fuel system. That would be the first thing to do with your symptoms. Of course, get your battery built back up. Long periods of cranking are not helpful. I think I would open each high pressure line where it connects to an injector and make sure you have fuel squirting at each injector. Doing that will not only check flow and that the injection pump is working but also serves to bleed the fuel lines. I suspect it will run after that.
How many hours on it? Ever had these issues before (like before it was let sit a while?)

 

[safar]

Thank you - I'm fairly new to dealing with a fuel issue and wasn't too sure about messing something up opening the high pressure lines and couldn't find any clear instructions - but will do this today and report back.
About 1300 hours on it.
Never had this issue before..It would be hard to start sometimes in the winter, but wasn't ever really an issue and ran well.

Thanks so much - appreciate the insight.

 

[/pine]

Thanks so much - checked and replaced the air filter too..
Sorry, I don't think I know how to crack the return fuel lines...Would you be able to point me to how to do this? I'll search of course, but never had to do that.

Search on youtube for clearing fuel line issues....the return lines are low pressure so they are usually just spring clamped etc...

Sometimes when a tractor has been sitting with less than a full tank of fuel moisture will condensate in the tank...when cranking the water can get pumped into the injector lines and returns...so some water gets "returned" back to the system...
The solution if there is water in the tank drain it out and check the filter before cranking...

 

[JWR]

Thank you - I'm fairly new to dealing with a fuel issue and wasn't too sure about messing something up opening the high pressure lines and couldn't find any clear instructions - but will do this today and report back.
About 1300 hours on it.
Never had this issue before..It would be hard to start sometimes in the winter, but wasn't ever really an issue and ran well.

Thanks so much - appreciate the insight.

1300 hrs is not high enough hours to expect serious injection pump issues or compression, etc. The high pressure lines are very small plumbing (look like 1/4" outside diameter) going out from the injection pump and each has a fitting that should loosen with a very small open end wrench right at the injector. They make 'tubing wrenches' that are like box ends with a small opening so you can use them on tubing without it being loose. They are better for not slipping but also probably not worth buying a set. Most likely those injector line fittings use metric sizes. They will be tight but should not be too hard to loosen. Make sure you have a good tight fit and don't round off the edges of the fittings. Just do one at a time and retighten each one before you loosen the next. It will not take more than a couple or 3 seconds of cranking to see the squirt going on BUT if it is foamy or hissing let it crank longer until that quits.

 

[safar]

The high pressure lines are very small plumbing (look like 1/4" outside diameter) going out from the injection pump and each has a fitting that should loosen with a very small open end wrench right at the injector.

Thank you so much - I've been watching a few videos and reading other posts, but your instructions make great sense.
I should be able to go try this in a few hours and report back.

I had taken a photo last night and think I understand.
There the rubber tube on the right side, which if I understand correctly is the fuel line coming in and the injection pump is each of the ones i've marked in red.

Really appreciate it - I know it all sounds easy, but I was hesitant to mess anything up before being sure I understood.

 

[dodge man]

BX tractors are self bleeding. Two things to check. They have a small lift pump, it almost looks like a fuel filter but it’s metal. Make sure it’s clicking when you turn the key on but don’t start. I’d also change both filters even though you said you had flow. They are very small and plug easily and they are also cheap. They also had a problem with the sending unit rusting and plugging things up.

 

[/pine]

sorry if you already know this...
Diesel injector pumps pump more fuel than the injectors inject...excess fuel is returned to the fuel system...that is what is visible in the second pic...it is low pressure thus the spring clamp...

 

[safar]

Thank you everyone for your replies; Still haven't gotten it resolved but based on all your suggestions here's what I did;

I opened the return fuel line as /pine suggested (And I didn't know about that, so thanks)
When turning the key, I did get fuel squirt through that rubber line - I didn't think there was water, but can't be sure, but atleast I know the fuel is running all the way through.

I then opened the connections at the injectors.
The 1st, had some diesel squirt out - no foaming or bubbling, so tightened that back.

The 2nd, had some foaming, so I continued to crank for about 10 seconds and the engine started up. It still looked like it was foaming slightly, so I let it run for a minute and then when I went to turn the key off the engine wouldn't shut down and had to turn the lever next to the engine.
*is the engine supposed to be able to start with that disconnected?

I tried the 3rd injector and that just looked like a bit of diesel squirting - no foaming, so tightened that down.

It still wouldn't turn on but I suppose as JWR suggested I might have had water and have run it back to the fuel tank.

I thought the not turning off had something to do with the fuel shutoff solenoid after reading about this in a few other posts and I had just enough time to go get a new one from the Kubota dealership. Connected that, still had trouble turning on but it did for a minute while still sputtering, but still wouldn't switch off, so again had to turn off with the lever.

After all the cranking the battery died, so i'll charge it back up overnight and not sure what to try next.

Could the not turning off have anything do do with this problem or just a chance that it's come up at the same time? Since the new solenoid didn't fix this, any thoughts on what that could be about?

Should I try opening the fuel connections at the injectors again and see if I get any hissing / foaming?

Did I perhaps have water and need to drain the fuel and put new filters all over again?

Again - sincerely appreciate all the help.

 

[/pine]

There may be a fuse for the cut off solenoid...have you checked to see if it's getting voltage when the key is on...just in the ON position should get juice to the solenoid...


edit....
sorry...not the issue...

 

[safar]

There may be a fuse for the cut off solenoid...have you checked to see if it's getting voltage when the key is on...just in the ON position should get juice to the solenoid...

Thanks - will check that first thing in the morning.

 

[JWR]

No, I would not open up the lines at the injectors anymore just now. Of course the separate issue of being able to shut down using the normal fuel shutoff solenoid has to be solved but that still leaves the original puzzle. Have you had a chance (since you killed the battery again) to just retry and start it? If it runs long enough it MIGHT just clear it's throat and run. If not, it still seems to be a fuel issue. At this point there is just too much going on. First with the battery charged up see if you can start it and keep it running. You said it ran "a minute" when you were bleeding the high pressure lines. I suspect if it will keep running it may clear after some time running. If NOT then I would resort to what amounts to an IV bag full of new clean fuel held high enough to guarantee flow of clean fuel to the injection pump. Make the connection from the temporary fuel supply to the input line of the injection pump. Probably have to jury rig some hose connections out of the parts bins at Lowes or Tractor Supply.

I refer to it as an "IV bag" hospital terminology but I think you know what I mean -- some container that will hold a quart or so of diesel fuel and gravity feed the makeshift temporary line straight to the injection pump bypassing the entire rest of the fuel plumbing. You will of course have to make provision for where the fuel goes coming from the lift pump that would normally be headed for the injection pump [like into a spare fuel can or whatever.]

This temporary rig should allow you to start and run the engine for a few minutes which verifies the injection pump, injectors, and engine are OK. If that passes muster you then have the chore of working your way backwards toward the tank until you find the culprit.

p.s.: don't ignore the possibility that you have an air leak somewhere that is causing the injection pump to be sucking air bubbles in with the fuel. Could be anywhere that you have rubber/neoprene hoses with clamps, etc.

 

[safar]

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense.
Haven’t been able to try again since the battery died but will run through the steps you outlined tomorrow.

I like the “iv bag” idea to try and atleast make sure the injectors and engine are ok.

Since it’s lived outside, I have been thinking there might be some hose leak letting in air somewhere and will try working through this backwards too.
Thank you again for atleast giving me a starting point / this has been so stressful and frustrating.

 

[dodge man]

I hate to beat a dead horse but did you change the fuel filters yet? I know you are getting fuel but are you getting enough? I keep bringing it up because I had a BX for 10 years and had mine plug up more than once. It would still run but poorly.

 

[safar]

I hate to beat a dead horse but did you change the fuel filters yet? I know you are getting fuel but are you getting enough? I keep bringing it up because I had a BX for 10 years and had mine plug up more than once. It would still run but poorly.

Hi - yes changed fuel filters and drained tank and refilled with fresh diesel.
I tried to bleed the lines after changing these so there is a possibility if there was moisture, I flushed it back.

I’m going to start with just trying to start it up today and then as JWR suggests, try to get fresh fuel right at the fuel injection pump and if that gets it running work backwards.

 

[TractorTech]

The not shutting off could be a blown fuse (I believe 30A FMX?) located on the rh side of the engine side rail or simply that your battery is too weak to energize the solenoid to kill the engine.

 

[safar]

Ok, so some updates from this morning.
JWR, your instinct that since it started for a minute yesterday it might just start again when the battery was charged was spot on.
It was still a bit of a hard start but started up - the issue then was that as soon as i let go of the key (fully turned) it turned off.

I managed to get it started a few more times and it stayed started as long as I held the key, but switched off as soon as i let go.

I didn't want to keep doing that as i don't know how harmful that it until i came back here and asked.

I feel that's some forward progress that I could atleast get it to start 6-7 times.
Now, I don't know how to address the starting and key release issue.

If I know how to deal with that and get it started, i could atleast let it run for a few mins and see if it still sputters.

The not shutting off could be a blown fuse (I believe 30A FMX?) located on the rh side of the engine side rail or simply that your battery is too weak to energize the solenoid to kill the engine.

I'll go check on the fuse this morning - I only thought to check the fuses by the battery and they all looked good, but I had drained the battery yesterday so it was definitely weak when that happened.

Can't thank you all enough -