Building The Outdoor Stairs

[sandman2234]

Too wet and you can get shrinkage cracks.

Too wet and it destroys the strength of the concrete!
David from jax

 

[ArtMech]

OK. To make it clear I'll tell the mix proportion in metric unit liter, what I put into every mixing machine.

According to volume:
1/ 40 L of concrete sand;
2/ 10 L of cement;
3/ 7 L of water.

According to weight:
1/ 77 kg of concrete sand (wet);
2/ 14,4 kg of cement;
3/ 7 kg of water.

1/ and 2/ are recommended by cement producer.

Is that catastrophic?

 

[Hay Dude]

I dont think so, but if it was like soup coming out of your mixer, that would be problematic. At least you covered it in plastic. I’m a big proponent of covering to improve curing.

 

[ArtMech]

I dont think so, but if it was like soup coming out of your mixer, that would be problematic. At least you covered it in plastic. I’m a big proponent of covering to improve curing.

Well, it wasn't like soup. In my opinion it was like the one which flows from a mixer truck pipe. It doesn't create an ordinary pile if it's placed on the ground, but it makes a low, wide, wet pile.

Here below how it looked like in a box.

Ok, I'm gonna take some valerian pill.
I'm sorry to burden you all guys with my stupidity.

 

[arkydog]

i think that everyone wanted the best for you and your work. your work is very impressive and looks fantastic. wish i could do that great of work like what you did!! very good!!!!

 

[pmsmechanic]

To the OP: Just to be clear I don't think that you burdened us with your "stupidity". I'm wondering if it's not more of a language, customs etc. type of misunderstanding seeing as you are from a different country.

Please keep posting and showing us what you are doing. The reason I signed up for this thread is that I was impressed with what you were doing. I'd be disappointed and feel like I missed out if I don't get to see how you complete the whole project.

 

[Hay Dude]

I bet the steps come out fine. Just seal them after cure

 

[Streetcar]

Fifty percent of cement weight is max water weight. Lower is better.
Sealing steps can help.
We want your hard work to last

 

[Streetcar]

Not stupidity just learning experience

 

[fishdrivel]

OK. To make it clear I'll tell the mix proportion in metric unit liter, what I put into every mixing machine.

According to volume:
1/ 40 L of concrete sand;
2/ 10 L of cement;
3/ 7 L of water.

According to weight:
1/ 77 kg of concrete sand (wet);
2/ 14,4 kg of cement;
3/ 7 kg of water.

1/ and 2/ are recommended by cement producer.

Is that catastrophic?

At a glance. That would be absolute maximum water for your concrete. If your sand is wet, that changes things. The wetness of your batch maybe caused by the wet sand.

Question? No aggregrate?

 

[ArtMech]

What was important from my point of view (and from what I was reading), is that if I do not remove the formwork but leave it on for the winter time, I must release it, it means I had to unscrew the wood screws, so to provide the gap between formwork and concrete to allow both to expand if there still humidity remains. And I did it. I removed only front formwork which forms steps. Side and bottom formwork was left until the spring. The problem is, that I had to leave this job unfinished because of season change and we can't see how it looks like in general.

 

[ArtMech]

To the OP: Just to be clear I don't think that you burdened us with your "stupidity". I'm wondering if it's not more of a language, customs etc. type of misunderstanding seeing as you are from a different country.

Please keep posting and showing us what you are doing. The reason I signed up for this thread is that I was impressed with what you were doing. I'd be disappointed and feel like I missed out if I don't get to see how you complete the whole project.

Yeah, the language is a problem already. Some 10-20 years ago I was speaking English nearly fluently. I was arranging international conventions, meetings etc. My working language was completely English. Now I don't speak English at all, just reading and listening. For instance the word "wet" or "damp", or "moist", or "humid". I don't exactly know which one fits to describe the sand status correctly. Only TBN (in fact you guys) allows me not to forget English.
And yes, If I have started a thread I will continue it up to the end. All the more so as there will be more interesting things.

 

[IndyJay]

Yeah, the language is a problem already. Some 10-20 years ago I was speaking English nearly fluently. I was arranging international conventions, meetings etc. My working language was completely English. Now I don't speak English at all, just reading and listening. For instance the word "wet" or "damp", or "moist", or "humid". I don't exactly know which one fits to describe the sand status correctly. Only TBN (in fact you guys) allows me not to forget English.
And yes, If I have started a thread I will continue it up to the end. All the more so as there will be more interesting things.

Your English language skills are as good or better than some for whom English is their first language! I have enjoyed your posts and look forward to seeing how the project turns out.

 

[3Ts]

I went back and took a look at your 1st set of pictures when this discussion of whether the concrete was to wet came up. Personally, I don't think it's to wet. First, the water content (or lack of) in the sand (whether it is wet/moist/damp/soggy/drippy/and i'm sure there are other words as well) makes a big difference in how much water is needed. When I look at the concrete in the forms, and see how many steps he has, and how the concrete is laying in the bottom step I think he's got it just right. If it was to wet, the bottom step would be bulging up out of the form and it does not seem to be doing that.

Seems to me he's spent some time doing research on the concrete mix, the formworks and reinforcing. It seems he's thought out the whole process from start to finish before he started the project. I'm expecting it to turn out very well!

 

[Williy]

There are three things for concrete

Sand
Cement
aggregrate

It takes the above items to make good
lasting concrete

Looks good what yer doing

willy

 

[ArtMech]

When I discussed concreting with knowledgeable people before all the work, most of them said that if you want to fill in the formwork well, make more liquid concrete. It's all about in HOW MUCH MORE liquid - 0,55; 0,6; 0,65...? This is not my first time concreting in my life, and I have some idea what it should be like when the ratio is 4x1x0.5. It turned out to me that 4x1x0.7 (at a glance) is still appropriate. If you add more water than this ratio, then yes, concrete mixture becomes like a soup, it becomes difficult to control, it runs through the edges, but it wasn't like that. The filling was easy to control. After a couple of hours there were no traces of water left. After a day, the surface had hardened. Since the stairs are on the South side and there were sunny/windy days, the stairs dried really fast. I understand what Streetcar stated "Concrete cures by chemical reaction not by drying". But the excess of water certainly didn't seem big. The water which appears while you're puttying the top surface just disappeared quickly, maybe soaked into the formwork or a lower base, I don’t know. After a few days, I even watered the stairs a few more times, according to recommendation.

Another thing is that I don’t know what an easy way to determine the hardness and quality of concrete in general. Some weeks later I did not detect any cracks on the top surface unless they are microscopic or they'll appear later. And when I tried to hit it after three weeks with a chisel and a hammer, it didn’t even try to crumble. There will be places where I will need to smooth the surface of the steps, I will do that with a diamond grinding disc. Maybe then it will turn out what happens with a quality.

 

[Fuddy1952]

The steps look great.
Sometimes I think a do it yourselfer like me can do a better job than so called professionals.
Example is 3 years ago I had a construction company build a horse stable about 10 feet behind the garage they built years ago. The land drops off fairly steep behind garage so 6 ft out they installed an 8ft high retaining wall. A 50 ton Cat dozer made area for stable plus overhang shed. They put down gravel, rebar and I had them pour an 80 ft X 6ft sidewalk. The night before pouring a guy came out and screwed in a few lag bolts to garage posts. I asked what that's for: " to hold the concrete" he said.
He left and that night I had lots of galvanized 1"x1/4" straps. Those I drilled holes in, then lag bolted them zig-zag 12 garage posts out to wall posts (6"×6" treated). That really beefed up everything when they poured the next day (sorry for picture, it just snowed).
Not a single crack anywhere and steps either end going down.
I'm going to bolt 6x6s to the 12 posts with a chain across, 5ft high.

 

[950deerehunter]

Google "To much water in concrete mix".(https://razorbackconcrete.com/what-happens-if-you-add-too-much-water-to-concrete/) and "Concrete Slump Test". These will shed some enlightenment on mixing concrete.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Mine was poured for horse stable and sidewalk when it was in the 90s. Every hour or so I'd mist everything with water, slowing the curing time as concrete company recommended. It sure turned out great, no cracks, etc.

 

[ArtMech]

Google "To much water in concrete mix".(https://razorbackconcrete.com/what-happens-if-you-add-too-much-water-to-concrete/) and "Concrete Slump Test". These will shed some enlightenment on mixing concrete.

Simple and good explanation. Thank you. One consolation is remaining - there were no cracks noticed after days and weeks passed from the pouring day. The question now is - ether I am at the edge to ruin entire project, or I ruined it. We'll see it in the spring.

Mine was poured for horse stable and sidewalk when it was in the 90s. Every hour or so I'd mist everything with water, slowing the curing time as concrete company recommended. It sure turned out great, no cracks, etc.

I did the same while the concrete surface was drying quite fast.