Building The Outdoor Stairs

[Rockbadchild]

great job on the foundation work and on the forms way too often I see people under estimating the push of concrete ... and for the water content look like you will be just fine bit looks good but yes for mixing you basically need the ''minimum'' amount of water possible to be able to mix it and for the curing time it need to be as humid as possible you don't want it to generate too much heat so cover it from the sun and putting water on it during the curing help (curing time is up to 40 days) ... so usually after a poor start to cure I will hose it down to cool it off ... our concrete curing chamber at school was at about 15 to 17 degrees Celsius and the mist from the sprinkles would start after a few hours after being place in it.

 

[Hay Dude]

I always keep my concrete covered in plastic as long as my customer or I can tolerate.

 

[ArtMech]

great job on the foundation work and on the forms way too often I see people under estimating the push of concrete ... and for the water content look like you will be just fine bit looks good but yes for mixing you basically need the ''minimum'' amount of water possible to be able to mix it and for the curing time it need to be as humid as possible you don't want it to generate too much heat so cover it from the sun and putting water on it during the curing help (curing time is up to 40 days) ... so usually after a poor start to cure I will hose it down to cool it off ... our concrete curing chamber at school was at about 15 to 17 degrees Celsius and the mist from the sprinkles would start after a few hours after being place in it.

Well it's a very interesting feature of that concrete!
Too much water in the mixture proportion is bad, but plentiful watering during curing time is recommended!

I always keep my concrete covered in plastic as long as my customer or I can tolerate.

I assume the covering a concrete is desirable even in summer to protect it from sun heating and too fast curing. But a plastic cover also traps moisture like in a greenhouse. In my case, I wanted the concrete not to rush to dry fast, but at the same time I wanted it to cure and to dry until frost will come along, that appeared 2 months after concreting. Therefore, it was covered the top of a surface only. Wind and changes in ambient temperature as well as humidity can freely circulate underneath the cover.

 

[EddieWalker]

Something to consider is that the advice you are getting from everyone is for flat work. While it's true that extra water will cause the concrete to crack and it will not be as strong, it is also true that what happens on flat work is not the same as what happens on monolithic pours like your stairs.

Ideally, less water would have given you more strength. But in all reality, the stairs are not going to support anything heavier then people carrying furniture. Never will there be more then half a ton of on them, compared to several tons of weight on a flat slab.

It's nice that everyone took the time to suggest other methods to accomplish what you have done, but from what I saw in your pictures, and all of the rebar that you used, there is no doubt in my mind that you have created a set of stairs that is more then strong enough for the task, that will last hundreds of years.

 

[ArtMech]

I am indescribably grateful to all the TBN members who have contributed to this thread. I thought I’d just share some information about what I'm doing. But the events turned out so, that I got a lot of fantastic advices on an issue. No one was obliged to respond, but yes, everyone is doing it in good faith and so, using their and their families’ precious time. And that’s invaluable.

I hope everything will be fine and this thread will be extended with some more interesting things.

Thank you all again and again.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Something to consider is that the advice you are getting from everyone is for flat work. While it's true that extra water will cause the concrete to crack and it will not be as strong, it is also true that what happens on flat work is not the same as what happens on monolithic pours like your stairs.

Ideally, less water would have given you more strength. But in all reality, the stairs are not going to support anything heavier then people carrying furniture. Never will there be more then half a ton of on them, compared to several tons of weight on a flat slab.

It's nice that everyone took the time to suggest other methods to accomplish what you have done, but from what I saw in your pictures, and all of the rebar that you used, there is no doubt in my mind that you have created a set of stairs that is more then strong enough for the task, that will last hundreds of years.

as a adolescents me and my dad made some concrete footings and it was a strong mix we went generous with the cement mixture, 10 - 15 years later the edge of the concrete is all flaking off and I could take a hammer and probably work through it, after going to school I realize the mistake. first one the mixture was too wet, we could just dump the concrete from the mixer in the wheel barrel it will all run off. Second mistake it dried up too quickly. (south side is worse the north side) I am tempted to disagree with your statement, for the base sure I agree it doesn't need to be super strong but for the stairs surface you want some strength you don't what that concrete to wear off from the footsteps, snow removal and salt over the years. Foot steps over time wear off lime stone (hardness 2-4) so it will wear off poorly mix concrete ( quality Polish concrete hardness (6 - 7)). But I do understand your point it not a bearing structure, with that being said id like to point out concrete itself take care of the compression and rebar take care of the tension. The rebar doesn't help the supporting any weight.

 

[ArtMech]

as a adolescents me and my dad made some concrete footings and it was a strong mix we went generous with the cement mixture, 10 - 15 years later the edge of the concrete is all flaking off and I could take a hammer and probably work through it, after going to school I realize the mistake. first one the mixture was too wet, we could just dump the concrete from the mixer in the wheel barrel it will all run off. Second mistake it dried up too quickly. (south side is worse the north side) I am tempted to disagree with your statement, for the base sure I agree it doesn't need to be super strong but for the stairs surface you want some strength you don't what that concrete to wear off from the footsteps, snow removal and salt over the years. Foot steps over time wear off lime stone (hardness 2-4) so it will wear off poorly mix concrete ( quality Polish concrete hardness (6 - 7)). But I do understand your point it not a bearing structure, with that being said id like to point out concrete itself take care of the compression and rebar take care of the tension. The rebar doesn't help the supporting any weight.

Thank you for sharing your experience.
In any case, like I've stated earlier, I planned to putty the whole surface of the stairs with a Finnish product called Weber Outdoor Repair. It's a really good one, I used that already.

Here's a video just in Danish.

The cement I'm using called ROCKET CEMENT M-600, made in Sweden not in Poland. We have a choice, because there is a local cement factory. But I chose that one.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Thank you for sharing your experience.
In any case, like I've stated earlier, I planned to putty the whole surface of the stairs with a Finnish product called Weber Outdoor Repair. It's a really good one, I used that already.

View attachment 729013

Here's a video just in Danish.

The cement I'm using called ROCKET CEMENT M-600, made in Sweden not in Poland. We have a choice, because there is a local cement factory. But I chose that one.

View attachment 729014

first time I see this product thanks for sharing.

 

[ArtMech]

first time I see this product thanks for sharing.

I think there are lots of such products or even better ones made in N. American states. It was just my thought you could see this one in a market just among many others as a competitor.

 

[950deerehunter]

Beautiful job on forming and reinforcing your stairs. Hope everything turns out good.

Here are some things to consider when you are ready to pour the upcoming supporting deck beam.
1) Be sure to include aggregate (different sizes is best).
2) Mix as stiff (less water) as you can (add water a cup at a time near the end of the mixing process). The optimum ratio is 0.4/1.0 water/cement
3) The wetter you can keep it during the curing the stronger it will be. This is a cement hydration process, it is not "drying".
4) There is a thing such as to much cement in a batch and will actually make the finished concrete weaker.
5) Typically, it is expected that a concrete mix will reach 50% of its design strength in 3 days, 75% in 7 days, and 98+% at 28 days.

I know you were trying to mix thin to get the concrete to flow in the forms but a "Hand Held Concrete Electric Vibrator" such as this one on Amazon
(Amazon.com)
this is just an example because I don't know what your electrical requirements are.

This vibrator will make a very stiff concrete mix flow very good and fill your forms without a lot of air pockets.

Good luck

 

[ArtMech]

Beautiful job on forming and reinforcing your stairs. Hope everything turns out good.

Here are some things to consider when you are ready to pour the upcoming supporting deck beam.
1) Be sure to include aggregate (different sizes is best).
2) Mix as stiff (less water) as you can (add water a cup at a time near the end of the mixing process). The optimum ratio is 0.4/1.0 water/cement
3) The wetter you can keep it during the curing the stronger it will be. This is a cement hydration process, it is not "drying".
4) There is a thing such as to much cement in a batch and will actually make the finished concrete weaker.
5) Typically, it is expected that a concrete mix will reach 50% of its design strength in 3 days, 75% in 7 days, and 98+% at 28 days.

I know you were trying to mix thin to get the concrete to flow in the forms but a "Hand Held Concrete Electric Vibrator" such as this one on Amazon
(Amazon.com)
this is just an example because I don't know what your electrical requirements are.

This vibrator will make a very stiff concrete mix flow very good and fill your forms without a lot of air pockets.

Good luck

It's really nice you described some points on my future works.

1/ I don't know the meaning of expression "to include aggregate".
2/ I've already learned a good lesson on the water proportion in this thread. I'll have to merge fresh concrete with the existing one. In this case I know I will have to moisten the existing one well.
3/ It's clear.
4/ I always knew the proportion of sand and cement 4x1 has to be immutable.

As a vibrator I usually use a bench grinder. I put a plank on the edges of the formwork or on the sticking out rebar, switch it on and let it do the job.
Here in EU we have 220 V, 50 Hz of AC.

 

[950deerehunter]

It's really nice you described some points on my future works.

1/ I don't know the meaning of expression "to include aggregate".
2/ I've already learned a good lesson on the water proportion in this thread. I'll have to merge fresh concrete with the existing one. In this case I know I will have to moisten the existing one well.
3/ It's clear.
4/ I always knew the proportion of sand and cement 4x1 has to be immutable.

As a vibrator I usually use a bench grinder. I put a plank on the edges of the formwork or on the sticking out rebar, switch it on and let it do the job.
Here in EU we have 220 V, 50 Hz of AC.

In concrete large aggregate is small rock or stone (1cm-3cm or even larger). The best rocks/stones are round and smooth which lends itself to less large air pockets. Be sure it is washed for good adhesion. Sand is a Fine aggregate. The ratio works good at 3parts sand to 4 parts stone.
Mortar is the same without the rock/stone.

 

[ArtMech]

In concrete large aggregate is small rock or stone (1cm-3cm or even larger). The best rocks/stones are round and smooth which lends itself to less large air pockets. Be sure it is washed for good adhesion. Sand is a Fine aggregate. The ratio works good at 3parts sand to 4 parts stone.
Mortar is the same without the rock/stone.

Thank you for explanation.
In my posts I used an expression "Concrete Sand", that's how we call it. It means the sand already includes small stones. I have bought it from the sand quarry where they make it. They sell the sifted and washed sand with up to 15 mm stones left ready for mixture.

 

[ArtMech]

Here is a just created video about how I had to fix my concrete mixing machine before starting all works. It was broken its LH side axle.

 

[ArtMech]

Ok, lets go further with the project. Before that I have something to ask.
I'd be much appretiated if someone might answer a question.
How deep should the rebar be sunk in the concrete as shown in a picture below? I mean distances "x" and "y"?
Thank you in advance.

 

[EddieWalker]

I drill about 4 inches into existing concrete, then I vacuum out the hole, fill it with construction adhesive rated for concrete and metal, then I put the rebar in, and turn it while its in the hole to get maximum contact with the adhesive and concrete.

 

[ArtMech]

I drill about 4 inches into existing concrete, then I vacuum out the hole, fill it with construction adhesive rated for concrete and metal, then I put the rebar in, and turn it while its in the hole to get maximum contact with the adhesive and concrete.

I'm sorry, my question was probably incorrect. I will need to make that beam of concrete. It doesn't exist yet. But before that I need to know, how should I place the rebar in the formwork correctly.

 

[fishdrivel]

Ok, lets go further with the project. Before that I have something to ask.
It'd be much appreciated if someone might answer a question.
How deep should the rebar be sunk in the concrete as shown in a picture below? I mean distances "x" and "y"?
Thank you in advance.

View attachment 745968

Minimum cover for concrete is 1.5 inches. That is minimum - more is better. Your decision is complicated by the size of this beam. I would recommend 4cm for ""x" and "y"

 

[ArtMech]

The current look of the stairs.

 

[ArtMech]

Minimum cover for concrete is 1.5 inches. That is minimum - more is better. Your decision is complicated by the size of this beam. I would recommend 4cm for ""x" and "y"

Very good. I thought so, but was not sure. I was prepared it'll be between 4 an 5 cm. Many thanks.