Building FEL Boom Pole

[nwngunner]

I have recently found these forums thanks to google. The least i can say is that i am very very impressed. The knowledge shown thus far has been amazing. Right now i am in the process, thanks to this site, of build a boom pole for my 806 international.

While I have a tractor a little larger then alot on these forums, same ideas still apply. I am currently mounting a 12foot, 10inch high 5inch wide I beam on top of my car hoist in my shop. Allowing me to attach a chain fall for pulling engines. I have a 1650 oliver i have to pull the transmission out of.

So i have this extra piece of ibeam laying around. I also have an old FEL bale sticker that i dont use. So this is what came to mind. Cut the two small stickers off of the bale loader. Take the main spike off. Weld a plate to the entire face of the loader frame. The frame has the center cross members so of course the inside would be welded as well. Then attach the Ibeam to said plate and hang a 2inch receiver hitch below it. "i have a 8,000 pound winch i build for my implement trailer that mounts in to a vertical receiver.

The entire thing would then be braced 5/8 chain back to each corner and to the top. Then use 10,000 pound ratcheting chain binds to provide tension on said Chains.

That is a rough idea that i threw together this evening.

Any concerns or ideas that any one has would be greatly appricated. Also what thickness of plate would you weld to the loader frame. I was thinking 3/8 or 1/2 how ever they want a 130 bucks for a 23x46 peice of 1/2 plate. Would 1/4 plate be strong enough with all the additional welds? Other wise i have everything needed to complete the project.

 

[mbohuntr]

My god but you like em well built!!! Here's my 2 cents... your limited by the weakest part of your tractor be it the bucket cylinders, hoses or turn buckles, or even the weight of the tractor. It looks to be built strong enough depending on your welding skills though. I found the loader on my 2615 will bypass before it allows me to outlift the tractor, but don't count on that with other tractors.(It could bypass when something is in the air as well) Your using a winch...They usually DO NOT have a breaking system on them, so you might not be able to hold a load once you lift it, Worse, it suddenly lets go and drops on someone. 1/4" plate will deform at the stress points, mainly where you mount the chains. You can beef it up by welding channel iron accross those points. It will fail when it exceeds the tensile strength of the plate so keep in mind that if it is deforming, it is beginning to fail. Here is a quick reference you can use to guage how much your lifting... Think of a teeter totter... weight times (horizontal) distance equals foot lbs of force at the pivot point. 100 lbs of weight 10' from the bucket pin equals 1000 ft lbs of force. (don't forget to add the boom pole weight) That is where the tensile strength of the chain and other parts come in. Probably will be a trial and error set-up like Phil. Build it and try a lift from the ground and see how it works. I would eliminate the turn buckles and weld on lift eyes, and use a clevis with the chain. You really don't need the adjustment of turnbuckles. A properly made weld using... say E6011 rod... will have 60,000 lbs of tensile strength. (that's the 60 in the rod number) That's why welded is better... Heck, even eliminate the chain and weld some heavier rod stock there instead of chain. One last point... If your using a winch, or chainfalls etc., You might get something pretty high off the ground before something fails. That is in my opinion the greatest risk. Keep safe, hope I helped.

 

[Egon]

The area where the plate and beam meet weld is gona take the entire bending moment when lifting a load.

What is the curl force ability of the rams on the bale spear?

 

[mbohuntr]

Hi Egon, Actually the stress on the beam becomes more compressive rather than torque when he puts on the angled chain/bars. If the cyls. on the curl are 2" with 1" pistons, there is 2.36 sq " of area for the pull stroke area of the cyl.. The typical limit for cyl pressure is 2500 psi.. Total weight = 2.36(2500) = 5900 ft lbs... Two cyls. to handle the total weight = 11800 lbs or 1180 lbs at 10 horizontal feet. That is the failure point of the cyls.

The relief valve should be weaker... say 2000 psi. I really don't know if the relief valve pressure is calculated the same way...Does it get divided by the number of cyls??? so 9440 lbs?or 940 lbs at 10'?? THAT HURT!!! If my numbers are off, please correct me...:confused2:

 

[nwngunner]

well thanks for the replys: I will have to see if i can find that 1/2inch plate to weld to the front. My main lift rams are 3inch and tilts are 2inch shaft. I have lifted about 5,000 with the bucket before and never hit a failure point.

I know what you mean by your cylinders not being able to hold the weight, on my oliver when i got a new bale spear, i had the tilt and lift poiints to close so the leverage would just cause the loader to dump. Even with 3200psi comming from the pumps it wasnt enough I had made up some plates to space out the rams and i have lifted i think 6,000 with it. That tractor is smaller with smaller rams and it lifted a 6,000 pound car off of the ground 'pesky engine and transmission wouldnt come out".

The main reason i wanted to use chain was i would be able to get it tight and keep it tight with chain binds.Ratcheting binds give me alot more fineite adjustment when that of normal binds. Also the winch does have break in and break out.


The main reason for this build, my buddy and his brother are tearing down a building. They are going to have 3 or 4 dump truck loads of concrete that they need to get rid of. I want to be able to chain up each slab and place it where i want it in my ditch. I have a massive ditch that over the years i have stop alot of the washing. Well i got a couple of spots that need to have something set in perfectly to top the washing. Well this gives me that opertunity to do just that. slabs would most likely be 2w4h1d. or even 4x4.

As for the pump going to bypass mine will stop lifting if and when i meet max. I have came to that point already. As for welding the chain, the chain was going to be welded directly to the the bale spear 4x4 frameing not to the face of the boom pole.

 

[Egon]

Hi Egon, Actually the stress on the beam becomes more compressive rather than torque when he puts on the angled chain/bars.

The bending moment on the welded beam end varies from the horizontal to the near vertical. Any compressive force from chains just comes from the amount they are tensioned.

The beam plus chains/rods would be considered one unit for the force on the rams.

That is the failure point of the cyls.

How are you accounting for the leverage of the linkage on the bale spear? That may be the force the cylinder See's.

Next come the dynamic forces that will result when things start moving and bouncing.

 

[nwngunner]

well i hope to just move the peices in to place with my 3pt sticker then use the front "crane" to lift and move them in to place. So in all realaity there wont be much moving of said peices in the air other then up and down. That is the point of the winch. Also if need be i can always use a heavy chain and create a lock out to keep the loader from tipping foward. In all reality i am not worried about my rams.


Its the whole thing of a leak down i have to watch, seal in a pump leaks, how ever i was more worried about the beam coming apart from the loader frame.

 

[mbohuntr]

Your right Egon, I figured the cylinders on purely straight tension, and did not account for bouncing which would greatly increase the force. My tubular boom pole lifts around 600 lbs, but without the suspension rod over it, it would fold immediately. I think the plan is pretty sound... limited danger.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Covering the entire face of your frame with heavy plate may not the most efficient use of steel. Some gussets or rigid braces that transfer the load close to the attachment points on the back of the frame will help. For long term general use I don't really care for the chains. You want compressive strength also so you can't tear it up by pushing against the ground for example. Check out the way this one is braced:
Skid Steer Attachments - Skidsteer Loader Equipment & Accessories for Bobcat, John Deere, Case, Mustang Gehl.

 

[ETpilot]

I built a boom pole for my FEL bucket years ago. I used it to lift a 42' welded truss 12 high. I could not curl the bucket with the weight so I curled what I needed before the lift and just lifted with the loader. Did it without a problem.

What I would do to your design is add a backbone for added strength instead of using chain. Using rebar or sucker rod weld a backbone from the tip of the I-beam to the center of your frame mount. This would replace your center chain support. To this backbone add vertical pieces welded to the I-beam and the backbone. Replace the angled chain with the same rebar or sucker rod. This setup would eliminate most bending moments.

Also, I would not attach the I-beam to the flat plate. I would attach it as an integral part of the frame.

The backbone can go to the top of the frame or you can just parallel the I-beam and it would work. On my pole I just parallel the pole with a backbone just about 5" up. It held good.

I drew out my idea but the file is too large to post and resizing is still too large. If you would like a copy PM me an email and I will send it.

Just my thoughts.

 

[nwngunner]

I have a slight problem with the backbone. First off its alot of additional cutting and welding. That in its self provides more points for possible weakness. Also you take 1/2inch or thicker all the way out to the tip of the boom your are talking alot of additional weight. This thing is already going to be so fricking massive i my self will have a **** of a time getting it to pin up to the loader. I can see using a backbone for a pipe. I have a piece of structural steel here that is many many times stronger then that of a single round tube.

Round tube only has extreme strength when it is vertical. Latterly a square tube is much stronger then a round tube. A lot of the boom poles on here i see people supporting with a steel cable. I for one hate cable, it stretches its hard to clamp. I just dont trust it, it has worked well or others but i don't care for it. Why i am wanting to go with chain. A good grade 70 or 80 5/8 chain will provide the same strength as a back bone. Now i can see if i was adding a trolley to the i-beam with some sort of lock then yes a back bone to distrubute the weight from the center back would be better. All of the weight will only be at the tip. Also when i look at a crane, the back bone is mostly risers in the center of the boom. Then it tapers down to the front and back providing tension and support for the center.

As for welding the ibeam to the frame. The frame is more narrow then that of the i-beam. When ever i have built anything, i have always had the premise of wanting distributing weight. Why would i want to attach the i-beam to something smaller then its self. With the plate there would be approx 250 liner inches of weld attaching the plate to that of the frame. That would cause any weight to pull across the entire frame not just the center cross member. I understand the bale spear goes in to that center cross member but the out side frame is still going to be the strongest point.

Figure a square box with a cross in it. The welds would be on every vertical and horizontal plane of the frame to the plate. By doing that the weight would be distribuated over 1100square inches of frame, not 50. That is over 22times the surface area.

So unless you can provide me with some hard physics to why attaching to the frame is better i will go with my plan. I am not past suggestions,its why i am here. I just want answers more then just because.

 

[mbohuntr]

Ya know... you could modify a regular boom pole so that the top tucks inside your (or on top of) the bucket, and weld a clip onto the bottom that goes over your cutting edge.... I have thought of that for mine so that I could do some lighter lifting much higher, like shingles or block onto a roof... The weight limits might not work for you though. I made a carry-all for my 9n out of 3"square tube, and modified it to work on the FEL of the Mahindra. A multi purpose impliment...

 

[nwngunner]

I cant do much with my current bucket. Have to realize i am working with older equipment here. My bucket is shot. I have to build a new one with cutting teeth as it is now. I am trying to find some prices on cutting teeth. I will post an image of what i have in mind for my bucket as well.

The bucket will be 50wide, 24high 36deep At the top will be a 2x4x1/4 square tube. That will give me the strength and a flat surface to mount hooks to. The sides will sit under that peice to provide strength. The bucket will be all 1/4 plate while the bottom will be 1/2 i think Unless that is to heavy. The cutting edge will be 3/4.Just dont know how to support the 2x4box in the center. Unless it is strong enough on its own.

I really need to find a program that i can do these in 3d. Will be so much more accurate then what i am doing now.

 

[Diamondpilot]

On a much smaller scale I built one after I tried to get a Bush Hog off my trailer and learned how limited the reach of my tractor was. I utilized the hitch I mounted to the top of my bucket.

Chris

 

[mbohuntr]

You could go with 1/4" plate, and stitch on a 1/2" wear plate/ cutting edge 2" wide and it should be plenty heavy enough. Have a friend put it on a mill and put an edge on it before you mount, or hit it with a big grinder. If you mount hooks on the top, they should be used for pulling or light lifting as the closer you get to the middle, the weaker it becomes and will deform. Using a cantilever mount for lifting with a wide bottom mount will give it more rigidity.

 

[nwngunner]

You telling me that 1/4 is strong enough is a big weight off of my shoulders. Now I will put the grind plates on the bottom of the bucket and they will be 1/2 thick. Should i use carraige bolts and bolt the grind plates in. So if in years down the road they can be replaced and not have to go though the work and expense of cutting and welding in new drag plates? Also i had another idea, would the bucket be strong enough to take and put two thick walled pipes in each corner for bale spears. That way in the winter i can use the bucket for snow removel and still use it for putting in hay. Also i could use the forks for brush work in the summer as well.

For the bracing for the hooks i am going to run some vertical sections of square tubing for added strength. Soon this thing will be so strong it will never budge.

One other question, do you think that my Boom pole would be better on the 3 point of the tractor? Would have alot less failure points to deal with, and my 3point dont leak down like my loader rams do.

 

[mbohuntr]

The bucket on my 2615 is probably 3/16" ... if that. It is more a function of how you use it than how heavy it is built. If you put a bale spear on the FEL bucket, mount it so the weight is spread out across the cutting edge, and cantilevered off the top edge. This changes the weight distribution and reduces bending. A lot of people have fabricated plate mounts for their attachments. Build a plate for the ram arms, and weld clips and clamps onto each impliment. These plates are built heavy, and designed to unlatch from the existing attachment, set it down, back out, drive under the new one, lift it up, get off and latch...
Your 3 pt probably has more lifting ability, but not the height or ease of maneuverability of a front mount. It will not stress the tractor as much either.. If you make a set of spears that mount on the outside edges of the bucket, that is the strongest point, and you can design the bucket like a mahindra's with the top edge bent down 90 degrees. build em so you put the top in first, behind the top edge, slide in the bottom clip over the cutting edge, and put a bolt through a angle iron clip and hole on the side wall.