Build an underground shop - why not?

[ACHINBAC]

Jinman,

Condensation issues !! This may not apply to your climate - I live in southeastern Ma. Our 2 car garage is underground on 2 sides, 1 side to the house / basement, and the last side to the doors. Because of the static temp. of the earth (even with 2" of exterior blue foam against the foundation) the garage can be 65 degrees in the middle of the summer with the doors closed.

Depending on the humidity outside, and the temperature differential, there are days when I am reluctant to open the doors for more than a few minutes given that everything in the garage gets wacked with condensation - it happens almost immediately!!! I can actually have water running off metal items - no good fix other than heating the garage to match the outside ambient temp. Nice & cool to work in though.

If you're in a dry climate it may not be an issue - look for someone in the area who has done it. It's really an annoying problem.

Dave

 

[DRL]

Cool idea. I was in Washington D.C. a while back and all of their subway stations are underground, built like a quonset hut style. Looked like cast blocks maybe 3'x6'. the two
6' edges where beveled slightly so as they go up they curve around to the top and down the other side. I think it would be fun to try something like that. Not sure how you would get them up but they would be very strong once they were in place.

DRL

 

[forgeblast]

I have an area where i was thinking of putting in an underground garage. The way the hill slopes it would be easy for us to do. I looked at the plans that this company offers. this may be a way to go. they do have garage plans, i am not sure if they are listed though.
Earth Sheltered Buildings

 

[jinman]

The Terra-dome system is not precast and is very affordable. You can make you concrete water proof with a 2 dollar per yard additive.

Thanks Sam! I have sent one inquiry to a place in Durango, CO and will give Terra-dome a chance to respond too. Looking at their unfinished structures, I see a lot of what I want. I figure the only problem might be my requirement for 12' ceilings, but I could probably live with a 12' peak dome sloping down with sides at 10'. I don't expect any problems with ground water, but condensation from warm air meeting cool walls inside the structure might be an issue. I've seen days here that moisture condensed on my concrete driveway. Humidity can be quite high here, so condensation will be the major water battle.

BTW: I live in a rural county in Texas with no building codes. This type of building will be especially free of limits due to the fact that it will essentially be considered a farm workshop/Ag structure. Sanitary systems and septic systems do require inspection, so I may only have a gray water washroom.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and great ideas. I'm a long way from making a decision, but it's really got me thinking of the possibilities. Heck! I'm sure I can find an excuse to buy some more equipment with a project like this.

 

[pennwalk]

Jim,
I wonder if there is government money to be had for a project like that. There seems to be money for all kinds of energy efficient projects. They upped the money for geothermal for 2009. Might be worth looking into.

Chris

 

[mikim]

excuse to buy some more equipment
backhoe? .... or maybe an entire full size TLB?

 

[SamWalton]

Thanks Sam! I have sent one inquiry to a place in Durango, CO and will give Terra-dome a chance to respond too. Looking at their unfinished structures, I see a lot of what I want. I figure the only problem might be my requirement for 12' ceilings, but I could probably live with a 12' peak dome sloping down with sides at 10'. I don't expect any problems with ground water, but condensation from warm air meeting cool walls inside the structure might be an issue. I've seen days here that moisture condensed on my concrete driveway. Humidity can be quite high here, so condensation will be the major water battle.

BTW: I live in a rural county in Texas with no building codes. This type of building will be especially free of limits due to the fact that it will essentially be considered a farm workshop/Ag structure. Sanitary systems and septic systems do require inspection, so I may only have a gray water washroom.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and great ideas. I'm a long way from making a decision, but it's really got me thinking of the possibilities. Heck! I'm sure I can find an excuse to buy some more equipment with a project like this.

You can add more height bay adding 20 inches or 36 inches to wall on the 24'x24' or 28'x28' modules. I would suggest considering their commercial 40' span dome of any length. It may be a better fit and it is much taller. I would also call Jay Shafe directly at 816-520-1039.

 

[dfkrug]

If you design your building with a ridge beam, you can put in one of these.
I meant to post this in "HF Tools That DON'T Suck". I just priced some new
steel at PDM, and some shapes are now back down to $0.71/lb in 20' or 30'
standard lengths.

My building is in humid riparian zone of the coastal rainforest, so humidity is
quite high, winter or summer. My walls are fully insulated so the only
condensation I get is sometimes a bit of dampness in the concrete slab.
Thankfully none on any metal tools. No heating system.

 

[jinman]

excuse to buy some more equipment
backhoe? .... or maybe an entire full size TLB?

That'd look good sitting next to a dozer, don't you think?

Dave (dfkrug), You have to stop reading my mind. That hoist looks pretty cool.

Sam, I'll give Jay a call when I have a few more specifics. Thanks for the phone number.

 

[sld]

This is a really cool idea. I frequently go to the Ozarks and occasionally we visit some caves. Now that would make a good underground workshop!

 

[RedRocker]

I like it Jim, go for it.

 

[ScottAR]

A fellow on garagejournal.com built something somewhat similar except he had a small garage on top and large theater under it... Might check it out.

 

[jesemd]

You could probably save some $ by using concrete walls and a steel truss roof, and backfill the walls to within a foot or two of the eaves. That way most of the building is underground, but you could save by having a conventional roof structure. You could also add some small windows or glass block in the above ground section to give some free light during the day.

You would basically be building a basement and then putting a roof directly on that.

Also, many factories and commercial buildings have "green roofs", where a plastic mesh is applied over the steel deck and a groundcover planted in the mesh. I imagine this is much lighter than dirt. That may be an option to disguise the conventional roof into the surrounding landscape.

Just a thought....Good luck!

 

[garnet]

Hi cool idea if you asks to sniping containers ponder this .They come in varies length by the ones you kneed to make the walls cut them in half stand them on end fill with your sand . Yours left over steal to stitch your new walls together this is a good time to do it scrap is very low. It is a little more complicated than I have explained but not much .The roof can be made with containers too. I saw my first one three years ago cant find the picture .when I wonted to build my Owen scrap was high if you find the concept intriguing you can fine me on build it your self snowblower.

 

[Arcane]

We built a barn on a sandy hillside in SE Massachusetts. 10" poured concrete walls, tarred and blue foam before the backfill, completely dry. The ground level has room for tractor, attachments, tools, and it stays a pretty even temperature except in the coldest part of winter. We built a water collection system - the cistern is next to the foundation - gravity irrigates the vegetable garden. A 12" I beam lengthwise supports 3x12 joists, which allow us to put the cars on the deck above. All the wood from a local sawmill. Its nicer than the house, so we spend a lot of time in it, including holding concerts, dances and jams with the neighbors. This of course was before the economy tanked.

I like jesemd's idea above for the OP. 4000sf is a big number, and a lot of concrete, but a steel truss supported shed roof (peak at the back wall) would definitely do the trick, be nearly invisible from behind the grade, and offer good exposure for the solar panels. There seems to be plenty of elevation. Not sure why to cover with dirt though: an engineer could evaluate cost to hold the extra weight and maybe you'd be better off with more conventional roofing.

 

[hobie]

Arcane, That is a thing of beauty! Sounds like you are living out one of my fantasies: having barn concerts. I don't have the barn right now, but may try the garage next month. Brian

 

[jinman]

I like jesemd's idea above for the OP. 4000sf is a big number, and a lot of concrete, but a steel truss supported shed roof (peak at the back wall) would definitely do the trick, be nearly invisible from behind the grade, and offer good exposure for the solar panels. There seems to be plenty of elevation. Not sure why to cover with dirt though: an engineer could evaluate cost to hold the extra weight and maybe you'd be better off with more conventional roofing.

I like jesemd's idea too and many others I've heard. Your barn is a thing of art. The rocked front is just too cool! The wooden barn above is just icing on the cake. NICE!

I'm struggling with several issues that don't relate to the structure. If I build above ground, it will be easy to put up a fence and enclose an area for implements and other visual eyesores. With the underground/basement type structure, the surrounding space is not easily useful. I haven't decided how I would handle this. I'm fortunate that this is not something I have to decide too quickly. There is nothing that says I could not build a fenced carport type structure for eqiupment storage above ground and a smaller shop below ground. The winters are so mild here that a carport is sufficient 99% of the time. I'm also waiting on some economic recovery on Wall St. to help with my planning. In this environment, contractors are hungry, but funds are somewhat limited. I guess it's a "Catch 22" situation.

 

[JPCjr]

I think ScottAR was referring to this guy:

The "Bunker" garage is almost complete! - The Garage Journal Board

You may get some ideas from him.

 

[Chuck K.]

I think ScottAR was referring to this guy:

The "Bunker" garage is almost complete! - The Garage Journal Board

You may get some ideas from him.

WOW is all that comes to mind...

 

[ScottAR]

That's the one... Unfortunately, most of the photos were deleted by the poster for
security reasons... (which I completely understand) but it was fun while it lasted.