Big tractor syndrome

[Cherokee140]

I agree with this post.^^^


I try to buy the size equipment that will handle the majority of my uses, on rare occasions I need to call in something smaller or larger.

This is where I guess I was drifting....I have folks around where I can borrow stuff from (but I really hate to borrow peoples equipment just incase something happens I always feel responsible to return it in better shape then I got it...even if it is just giving it a bath)

I have seen the videos on youtube, people digging up stumps, picking up HUGE (EVERYTHING) with a grapple (now I want one of those...tons of dead wood I have to deal with) digging things as large as Koi ponds, moving pretty big rocks...tons of stuff. I watch those videos and think man this will do everything I need and then some. Then I see the machines, pretty small size wise. Makes an 8N look huge, Next to a JD70 it is a toy. And I get the feeling that is how many dealers see them.....as toys. They have the experience, they also want to make money, and I would bet there is more money in the larger machine. So are they talking to me about the larger machines because they really can't do what I have seen them doing on youtube.....or are they just trying to get deeper into my wallet.

I know I have been rambling on this over and over....sorry, but I have never had a chance to go to a dealer (car or tractor) and say I want ________

I really want to make sure I am putting just what I need in that blank, not what I want or to have over kill, on not be able to use it when digging up all the landscaping up close to my house.

 

[dave1949]

Maybe a few pics of the areas you plan to work in would help people give better advice.

My personal experience is 10 years of use on my 40 hp New Holland has pretty much worn out the loader and backhoe. I know that I work it hard and ask a lot from it. It's a tool that has a useful lifetime that gets consumed. The tractor itself is still in reasonable shape with (knock on wood) many useful years left in it.

Money-wise, if I had a larger machine, in 10 years it would/could have depreciated in value roughly by as much as the New Holland loader and backhoe cost. Repairs and maintenance would be more expensive with a larger machine too. It's a trade-off.

All else being equal, a small machine used to its maximum capability will have a shorter life than a larger machine that is not being maxed out.

 

[jenkinsph]

This is where I guess I was drifting....I have folks around where I can borrow stuff from (but I really hate to borrow peoples equipment just incase something happens I always feel responsible to return it in better shape then I got it...even if it is just giving it a bath)

I have seen the videos on youtube, people digging up stumps, picking up HUGE (EVERYTHING) with a grapple (now I want one of those...tons of dead wood I have to deal with) digging things as large as Koi ponds, moving pretty big rocks...tons of stuff. I watch those videos and think man this will do everything I need and then some. Then I see the machines, pretty small size wise. Makes an 8N look huge, Next to a JD70 it is a toy. And I get the feeling that is how many dealers see them.....as toys. They have the experience, they also want to make money, and I would bet there is more money in the larger machine. So are they talking to me about the larger machines because they really can't do what I have seen them doing on youtube.....or are they just trying to get deeper into my wallet.

I know I have been rambling on this over and over....sorry, but I have never had a chance to go to a dealer (car or tractor) and say I want ________

I really want to make sure I am putting just what I need in that blank, not what I want or to have over kill, on not be able to use it when digging up all the landscaping up close to my house.

Really difficult to know what capabilities will be needed in the future without a crystal ball. I think most of us have to guess what will fit the best and recognize nothing is a perfect fit for all tasks. I have a Deere 110 tlb with Laurin cab that does 90% of my backhoe work, on occasion I need something bigger but so far I haven't needed one that is smaller. A JD 70 can develop quite a lot of tractive force when needed but it seems most homeowners can better utilize a newer tractor with more modern features the majority of the time.

Organizing your projects and then buying the tractor size and configuration that will work the best for most of your needs is the way to go. Rent the specialized equipment for the rest of the jobs.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Maybe a hands on demo would help you. Most dealers have dirt piles that you can try out the tractors on. If you plan to use the FEL to haul and move materials, do this. Load up the BX with a full bucket of dirt and dump it out where you can compare the size of the pile. Then do the same with a B series. I am sure the larger bucket will show a sizable difference in piles of dirt. While you are doing this, note the one that loads the dirt the easiest (make sure both are in 4 WD). It always amazed me when hauling dirt, how little the pile was when dumping regardless of the tractor. Even my LS with its huge bucket compared to any CUT takes a long while to move a big pile of dirt. Every little bit larger helps in the bucket brigade.
As for as can a BX SCUT do the same work as a larger CUT, in most instances it can with exception of lift capacity, it just takes much more time to do it. When moving heavy stuff like rocks, it doesn't take a very big rock to weigh more than a BX can lift.

 

[ovrszd]

I would suggest a B series in the Kubota brand. Not sure what's comparable in the JD brand. I had a B2910 that I used a MMM with. It did a better job mowing than the JD455 that I also had. Was twice as capable in regards to tractor duties such as towing, carrying, etc.

I've got a JD2210, which is the predecessor to the JD 1-series. I just mapquested you but we are too far apart for you to test drive mine. Go to this thread and post the question if anyone close to you has any variations of what you are interested in that you can hop on and run. I know there are posters on that thread that live close to you. You'll learn more in an hour that way than you'll learn all day at a dealership.

Here's the link.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/midwest-great-lakes/228416-missouri-roll-call-show-me-137.html

 

[Cherokee140]

Thanks for the tips.

I will try to get out and snap some other photos of some of the area I am working on.

This is an older photo I actually took from the 650....it shows a small bit of the overgrown fence row...It is a little hard to tell, but the fence is an old barbed wire fence that is falling apart, They at one time kept cattle on this part. The trees have grown about 6-10 feet on each side of the original barbed wire fence....most are in the smallish range, some larger, and 99% are black locust with MONSTER thorns. There are other areas on the property that are over grown like this, an old 3 sided barn you can't really get to but is still in good shape.

The ground back there is also VERY bumpy from the cows. It also gets a great deal of runoff.

 

[GPintheMitten]

For what you described I would not go smaller than a B series or similar size in another brand. But frankly it sounds like you have made up your mind to go on the smaller size.

 

[TripleR]

Thanks for the tips.

I will try to get out and snap some other photos of some of the area I am working on.

This is an older photo I actually took from the 650....it shows a small bit of the overgrown fence row...It is a little hard to tell, but the fence is an old barbed wire fence that is falling apart, They at one time kept cattle on this part. The trees have grown about 6-10 feet on each side of the original barbed wire fence....most are in the smallish range, some larger, and 99% are black locust with MONSTER thorns. There are other areas on the property that are over grown like this, an old 3 sided barn you can't really get to but is still in good shape.

The ground back there is also VERY bumpy from the cows. It also gets a great deal of runoff.


View attachment 362619

Probably already been mentioned, but with something like a grown up fence row of any length, we bring in a dozer or rent a tracked skid steer, sure saves time and money on tractor repairs.

 

[paulfun9]

The JD 650 is a little tractor with a big heart! The BX is simply a little tractor built for a home owner who maintains their already done property! If you are looking at a loader and backhoe on a property that hasn't been tamed you would be much better served in the long run by a slightly bigger machine. I have run the BX series and was very disappointed with them when compared to the JD 650/750/755.

 

[dave1949]

Probably already been mentioned, but with something like a grown up fence row of any length, we bring in a dozer or rent a tracked skid steer, sure saves time and money on tractor repairs.

Cleaning up old barb wire is never a fun job. Someone who lived on this place long ago was a real barb wire nut. :laughing: There used to be a lot of sheep raised in this area.

The fence posts are long gone but the wire lasts forever buried in the surface dirt, leaves and vegetation, grown into trees, and the occasional small coil laying here and there. I spend a day or two most summers pulling and cutting the latest discoveries.

 

[GManBart]

And I get the feeling that is how many dealers see them.....as toys. They have the experience, they also want to make money, and I would bet there is more money in the larger machine. So are they talking to me about the larger machines because they really can't do what I have seen them doing on youtube.....or are they just trying to get deeper into my wallet.

I know I have been rambling on this over and over....sorry, but I have never had a chance to go to a dealer (car or tractor) and say I want ________

I really want to make sure I am putting just what I need in that blank, not what I want or to have over kill, on not be able to use it when digging up all the landscaping up close to my house.

I'm not a tractor dealer, but if you look at it from their perspective, it might make practical (rather than financial) sense to steer someone to a slightly larger machine. One of their worst scenarios would be to sell someone a smaller machine only to have them come back upset because it wasn't quite enough. As long as the larger machine won't be a problem (like fitting through a door, or something), customers don't usually complain about excess capability. I also think they know how tractors shrink when you get them home. I figured out the exact size I thought I needed, then went up one full size because it wasn't much more money, and I sometimes wish I'd gone up yet another size to a smaller Utility tractor. I knew I'd be able to use the bigger machine for a few more things, but now I see how one step bigger would save me time, and that would have justified the added expense in my mind. Of course, everyone is in a unique situation, but I just wanted to give some credit to the sales guys out there...they're looking at more than just how much money they make (if they're smart). R,

 

[GPintheMitten]

I would never allow a dealer to play the role of sizing my tractor, truck, car, or anything else. I would determine this myself base on specs and maybe talking to other consumers. I would only look to the dealer as a source for product and service or technical information.

If you ask a dealer to size their products to your needs, he is going to go big. But just because he does, it doesn't mean he's wrong.

You got to make up your own mind on size based on good research.

So far it looks like most members here are agreeing that the larger size is more ideal for you.

 

[Cherokee140]

I really am not breaking the 650...it is already broke, some are thinking cracked block or head, not real JD had the machine for about 2 months last summer, then the shop fees just got to the point where I just stopped the work. The 650 has always done what I wanted it to do. And truth be known if it still would run without over heating I would not be here.

These trees that I am talking about have grown out from the original fence row....I call them in between trees, to big for loppers, really a waste of time with a chain saw....but that is really the only way you can cut them down. And being black locust the roots are close to the top and they are really moving out across the yard....this I must stop. There is also a great deal of dead wood, old brittle, pretty light, but but pretty big. I don't really want to drag as all the thorns come off and then the mowers get flats. I buy green slime by the 55gal drum.

I really have not made the choice yet. I have quotes for I have quotes for JD 3000 series from two dealers, hope to have a quote on a B from Kubota today. This is still very much up in the air. Like I said before the price difference is not that great.

I have borrowed my friends Mahindra...don't know the size but I did come away thinking too big. He pulls a round bailer with it, and does all that mess. My little machines can pull the rake. The neighbor has a small(ish) tractor (I don't even know the brand) and that is more my size...he is upgrading his machine to a larger one as he also still has horses and wants to move to round bails vs square. He use to bail my property but with his and mine it is really more then he wants to mess with. I talked to him about his and while he never had a problem with his machine you it is a real pain for him to get parts for it....and it has no power steering....I have to have power steering I have some nerve damage and my left side is pretty weak. (another reason the drive over JD stuff is pretty high on my list)....you can get drive over decks for the 3000 series but are limited to the 62" deck.

The forest area needs/has to be cleaned out. We want to put in a small number of peach trees.....50 or so....Peach trees do very well at my house. We figure if we get them in the ground, it will be a good retirement hobby. That and flower bulbs. The wife likes flowers....the new peach trees are going to cross this old fence line.

My mind to the size is pretty far from made up....size is something else. the 1700 MF seemed pretty good, but was hard for me to get on, the JD much more low to the ground. then the smaller ones lower yet. Will this peach / bulb thing ever get off the ground before I start pushing up the flowers....who cares, but I will have fun getting there playing in the dirt with my wife.

I might still borrow that larger (real) backhoe if it comes to needing to take out anything too big for the machine I end up buying. And my boss does have a bulldozer that he said I could borrow anytime. Tracked vehicles again...I am not so sure on that...but anyway.

The decision is not made as to the size but machine brand is pretty set....JD is top because of dealer network....Kubota is next....then New Holland......If they still made that retro 8N it would be a no brainer IIRC those stopped in 2012. And I do want a NEW machine not used.

 

[GManBart]

The decision is not made as to the size but machine brand is pretty set....JD is top because of dealer network....Kubota is next....then New Holland......If they still made that retro 8N it would be a no brainer IIRC those stopped in 2012. And I do want a NEW machine not used.

Just FYI, New Holland doesn't make any of their own machines in the sizes you're looking at. You can buy the same machine from the OEM, for quite a bit less in most cases....often $5-10k less.

 

[radioman]

well-- you mentioned 13 acres so having a small tractor like an BX for the all purpose tractor might be too little. This is probably why dealers is trying to steer you in this direction - however - YOU know your land better then your dealer and the type of projects or things you want to do. So, if you gut feeling a big tractor is not what you need, but may need it later means you can either rent or get one later. The B is so much similar, but a little bigger much more appropriate in size in terms on your acreage size. I am not sure of your manicured mowing areas, but wonder if a RFM would be better if you have alot of open spaces so you wouldnt have to struggle to hook up with limited arm issues. It seems to me that its hard to decide because of budget you may have since the ideal way is to get another new small machine like you had in JD or kubota for mowing and many small jobs, and get a used larger machine- but not sure if you need a TLB in b/l series in terms of how deep of digging you want to go and how much weight you want to lift/move with BH. The BX can only dig to 4 ft flat trench and 5 -5.5 ft extended but wont be neat trench. The BX can only break 3 inch soft wood roots and 1-2.5 hardwood roots unless you really abuse the dipper/risk bending cylinders.

 

[TripleR]

My mind to the size is pretty far from made up....size is something else. the 1700 MF seemed pretty good, but was hard for me to get on, the JD much more low to the ground. then the smaller ones lower yet. Will this peach / bulb thing ever get off the ground before I start pushing up the flowers....who cares, but I will have fun getting there playing in the dirt with my wife.

This caught my attention. For some time I have carried TV steps in all my vehicles and placed in my barn to help me on and off my tractors. A few months ago, I did a Waxman modification to mt L5740, it has been great and while it's on a Kubota can be used on other makes and models. Timber also added a different type to his father's tractor.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/303036-my-grand-l-3240-cab.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/258009-step-my-dads-7610-kubota.html

 

[Cherokee140]

I REALLY like those steps...like you said in one of those threads I am only getting older....and to tell the truth I think all that metal in me is making me rusty

I was planning this weekend on one last look at the BX/B 1025R/2032...but with this snow storm that is to be coming I may just have to wait another week.

 

[Baby Grand]

List-o-mania:
1) Make a list of all the tasks you want to do with this new tractor.
2) Make a second list of what size/weight implements you will need to do the tasks on the first list.
3) Make a third list of tractors that will handle the implements on your second list.
4) Go to the dealers, try them out and buy the one that "feels right" to you and your wallet.

 

[rjwerth]

People, you are ruining the quip I came up with after reading the OP....

"If you think sales guys want to upsell you...wait to you see what these guys will get you to buy!"

But NO...you guys have to come out all sensible for some reason. Fine.

Seriously though, you should probably be thinking a bit bigger than you are especially if you are thinking backhoe. I couldn't imagine having a smaller hoe than my 2485 and have it be worth the money spent and you are looking at smaller machines than that....