Battery Info

[DarkBlack]

the upper left and lower right one failed completely.

The upper right one is positive in this 24 V system, and the lower left is negative. What I don't understand is why those two, first and last in the chain, are dead

I’m confused. You seem to contradict yourself on which ones died.

In any case, I’d add one more cable, connecting the series battery pairs..either the +, or the - terminals, whichever is easier access.This will halve the chances of undercharged batteries due to its series “partner” having a higher voltage drop, by putting them in parallel.
For the price of one cable, it’s well worth it in my opinion.

 

[Hay Dude]

I bought this one at Harbor Freight in Tyler.

View attachment 2105403

Lot better buy than amazon ($26-$28)

 

[rScotty]

I didn't think about the cables. They were expensive, and they are pretty thick, but I don't know the details of them off the top of my head. I'll look at them too!!!

Our 2008 Kubota came with a the typical old style flooded wet cell type battery with the cell top caps. It was a decent battery. It lasted well, but like many of its type the wet cells outgassed enough to corrod the cable terminals. They needed cleaning every year or two and eventual replacement.

A few years back, I was again once again cleaning the cable ends when I noticed the cable had an odd "floppy area" back about six inches from the cable end. I slit the insulation to look, and found that battery acid fumes had crawled up the copper wire inside of the cable insulation and eaten away most of the copper wire. No wonder it wasn't starting right.

New cables made using flexible ground lead wire bought at the welding supply shop - mentioned above, plus some old fashioned soft lead cable ends, and switching to an AGM style battery have hopefully fixed it.

rScotty

 

[LouNY]

I've never used a Load Tester before, but I've seen them use it at NAPA when bringing a battery in. They always have something like this.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Is there an advantage to the digital ones? I'm sort of leaning towards something like the Schumacher that I post the link to. I also see that there is a Neiko that looks indentical to the Schumacher, but for about $15 less.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I like the 500 amp ones, they will put more of a load on the batteries.

 

[grsthegreat]

I bought this one at Harbor Freight in Tyler.

View attachment 2105403

Those are generally maxed out at 100amps, you should test batteries at 50% of rated CCA. SO A 550 CCA battery should be tested at 225 amp draw for i believe its 10-15 seconds. Mine beeps when its done.

My carbon pyle tester is also harbor freight, but its rated 500 amps. I dont see that anymore, now they have a 1000 amp model.

After i hit a battery with the carbon pyle tester, i then test it with electronic Midtronics tester. The battery must pass both, or i replace it. I maintain lots of generator batteries, plus lots of my own.

 

[LittleBill21]

I bought this one at Harbor Freight in Tyler.

View attachment 2105403

same one I use. you get about 10 seconds, or a solid minute if you got a strong enough leaf blower....

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I’m confused. You seem to contradict yourself on which ones died.

In any case, I’d add one more cable, connecting the series battery pairs..either the +, or the - terminals, whichever is easier access.This will halve the chances of undercharged batteries due to its series “partner” having a higher voltage drop, by putting them in parallel.
For the price of one cable, it’s well worth it in my opinion.

Sorry, it's the upper right and lower left that are bad.

I'll have to think about adding that cable.

 

[LittleBill21]

Sorry, it's the upper right and lower left that are bad.

I'll have to think about adding that cable.

is this 4s or 2s2p?

 

[John_Mc]

Speaking of battery issues, yesterday I found one that puzzles me.

These batteries have been flawless for about two years, always maintaining a good charge for months. Don't know if it's related, but recently decided to be nice to them and add some water. They didn't need much, some cells none.

Also in the process of rebuilding the power control box for this vehicle, basically a solenoid that provides power when the battery switch is turned on, and one that sends power to the starter's solenoid when activated.

With all systems seemingly good to go, the starter acted like the batteries were low. The voltage was still up there, but when load testing them the upper left and lower right one failed completely. Never had anything like that happen before.

The upper right one is positive in this 24 V system, and the lower left is negative. What I don't understand is why those two, first and last in the chain, are dead while the other two tests perfectly. Yes, stuff happens, but in this case, how?View attachment 2105400

Put them on a solar charger and with desulfation on the two bad ones. It'll be interesting to see if the specific gravity is still as bad as it was yesterday.

So the two with the issue are the two with the Pulsetech on them? Those Pulsetech units are only supposed to be used on batteries that are frequently charged. The Pulsetech is a desulfation system that runs off the battery power (rather than plugging in to the wall), so they put a constant slow drain on the battery to which they are connected.

If the batteries are not charged on a very regular basis (e.g. by running the vehicle in which they are installed), it will drain the battery. Leaving one battery in a series set up partially drained will cause real problems for your charging system: one of the batteries in series will be constantly undercharged, and one will be constantly overcharged, shortening the life of both of them.

In addition, putting the Pulsetech units on some batteries but not others is likely causing a battery imbalance.
It's hard for me to see from the picture how you've got the 4 batteries wired up, but I believe it's as shown in this diagram:

With the Pulsetech units connected to B2 and B3, those batteries will be slowly drained. With a 24V charging system connected at the +24V and GND, it's likely that B2 & B3 will be chronically undercharged while B1 & B4 will be overcharged. All 4 batteries run the risk of being damaged, especially if the imbalance becomes significant. Even if you run the vehicle regularly to charge it, you will not be able to equalize the batteries just from the vehicle's charging system. If you are going to run this type of battery maintainer (powered by the batteries themselves), you really ought to consider running them on all 4 batteries. An alternative set-up would be to regularly charge each battery individually with a 12V smart charger. Alternatively, you can buy a 12V, 4 Bank battery charger, and charge all 4 batteries individually at the same time. (I use a 12V two-bank smart charger which is permanently mounted in my 24V antique military pickup which has two 12 volt batteries. When I put the truck away, I just plug an extension cord into the charger and leave it. It keeps the batteries properly charged and balanced.)

Since your existing batteries are already way out of balance, you could try to recover the weak batteries by connecting them individually to 12V battery charger/maintainer with a desulfation feature. If the batteries are too far gone, it might not be able to bring them back.

Whether connecting batteries in parallel, it's important that they be in a similar state of charge when first connected.When running batteries in a series connection, the weaker battery will limit the output of both batteries. Since you have a Series/Parallel setup, both of these are considerations. If you are replacing batteries, I'd recommend replacing all 4 at once.

 

[John_Mc]

is this 4s or 2s2p?

From what I can see, it's two in series, and then those two series strings connected in parallel.

 

[John_Mc]

The mule uses a car battery, buy the statement of amp charger is correct

I was assuming Eddie was referring to a Kawasaki Mule, a UTV which uses a 17 Amp-Hour ATV type battery.

In thinking further about this, I know there are Mule gate openers, which I assume use a deep-cycle battery. There are also antique military Mules (M274) - a funky UTV-type vehicle - which were introduced in 1956 and used up in to the 80s.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

So the two with the issue are the two with the Pulsetech on them? Those Pulsetech units are only supposed to be used on batteries that are frequently charged.

Since your existing batteries are already way out of balance, you could try to recover the weak batteries by connecting them individually to 12V battery charger/maintainer with a desulfation feature. If the batteries are too far gone, it might not be able to bring them back.

Before this problem occurred I had a single 24 V PulseTech connected at the "end" positive and negative terminals. Now I wanted to favor the two that tested bad.

So far the solar panel, and maybe the desulfation, has already helped a bit. Now the specific gravity is still in the red, but only barely. Yesterday it was at the bad end of the red scale.

By the way, the batteries are being charged through the external jump start connector so while there's no extra visible wiring on the batteries, they are being charged. I'll probably hook up a corded 24 V charger instead this evening to speed up the process. Or maybe a 12 V maintainer on each of the two.

Also, there's a 0.17 V reading between the two posts that somebody suggested I should add a cable between, so if these batteries end up staying in service it'll get added. If not, two Group 31 AGMs will likely be the replacement.

 

[LittleBill21]

Before this problem occurred I had a single 24 V PulseTech connected at the "end" positive and negative terminals. Now I wanted to favor the two that tested bad.

So far the solar panel, and maybe the desulfation, has already helped a bit. Now the specific gravity is still in the red, but only barely. Yesterday it was at the bad end of the red scale.

By the way, the batteries are being charged through the external jump start connector so while there's no extra visible wiring on the batteries, they are being charged. I'll probably hook up a corded 24 V charger instead this evening to speed up the process. Or maybe a 12 V maintainer on each of the two.

Also, there's a 0.17 V reading between the two posts that somebody suggested I should add a cable between, so if these batteries end up staying in service it'll get added. If not, two Group 31 AGMs will likely be the replacement.

you should be using a lead acid balancer, if your not taking these apart randomly and charging individually

 

[grsthegreat]

I was assuming Eddie was referring to a Kawasaki Mule, a UTV which uses a 17 Amp-Hour ATV type battery.

In thinking further about this, I know there are Mule gate openers, which I assume use a deep-cycle battery. There are also antique military Mules (M274) - a funky UTV-type vehicle - which were introduced in 1956 and used up in to the 80s.

I have a 2012 kawasaki mule and it has a 550 cca battery on it. Its as large as my truck battery. Did they change these to lawn mower batteries on newer units?

 

[EddieWalker]

I just mentioned the Mule because it's a vehicle with a battery. Oddly enough, it's a 2010 and I'm still on my second battery. It's never had a trickle charger on it, but it's started up and used just about every day. It sits under a roof, in a shed with three walls.

 

[John_Mc]

you should be using a lead acid balancer, if your not taking these apart randomly and charging individually

A battery balancer is a good idea.

For all of my chargers, there has been no need to take the batteries apart in order to charge them individually: I can just connect each one up to a different battery while all of the batteries are still connected to the vehicle. (I suppose it's possible to have a charger where this could be a problem, but I have not yet run into a modern charger that exhibits this problem.)

I'll probably hook up a corded 24 V charger instead this evening to speed up the process. Or maybe a 12 V maintainer on each of the two.

a 24V charger will not restore balance to two 12V batteries connected in series. If they are out of balance, they will generally remain so when charging with a 24V charger: you will continue to have one battery in the series string undercharged and the other overcharged.

 

[grsthegreat]

I just mentioned the Mule because it's a vehicle with a battery. Oddly enough, it's a 2010 and I'm still on my second battery. It's never had a trickle charger on it, but it's started up and used just about every day. It sits under a roof, in a shed with three walls.

View attachment 2105421

My mule sits in the garage, and is also used daily. Probably the most used vehicle i own. It was running sluggish so last month I adjusted valves and new plugs and oil. Running good again.

 

[John_Mc]

I have a 2012 kawasaki mule and it has a 550 cca battery on it. Its as large as my truck battery. Did they change these to lawn mower batteries on newer units?

That's what I found when I tried to look up what battery a Mule uses.

I have a Honda Pioneer 520 (a small UTV). I don;t think I could find a place to fit a full-sized car battery in it.

It's never had a trickle charger on it, but it's started up and used just about every day.

Regular, frequent use is one of the best things you can do for a battery. As long as you aren't having problems with your charging system, there should be no need for a maintainer.

My UTV stays on a smart charger/maintainer when not in use because I never know when I'll be using it again. It also has a wireless winch control. That receiver is on constantly (receiver is wired to the winch, which is wired directly to the battery). The receiver doesn't draw a lot, but it will suck the battery down over time. I found this out the hard way when I bought the unit used from someone - just one year old. Drove it the first day I bought it. It sat for a few weeks and the battery was dead.

 

[RayIN]

Did you check your water levels?
View attachment 1966562

My Massy sealed AGM OEM battery just died this past summer, after 15 years.

That picture shows a battery 3 yrs, 3 mo's.,18 days old. as of this day.

 

[Mike1955]

Here’s another opinion on a battery charger. Associated equipment is a US made battery charger that serves me well. I have one many years old, small about 10 amps 6 or 12 volts that I do all my charging with. For maintaining I have a small smart charger. The vintage charger left to long a time will most likely ruin my battery’s. I just never have great luck out of a battery on a 4 wheeler