Assistance In Choosing a CUT!

[DGrenke]

Hello all. This is my first post, as I am a very new member to TBN. I've been reading many of the older threads and have found some great insight into my future tractor purchase. Having said that, I figured what the heck, I might as well ask you fine folks a very similar question that you've all heard quite a few times: What would be an ideal size of tractor for my tasks?

Here's the breakdown. I live up in British Columbia, Canada, in the southern interior. Summers start early, is hot as **** and ends deep in September. Our winters are mild and short compared to the rest of the country . The snow we get is heavy and wet, and it can come in boat loads. I'm purchasing 1 acre of bare, flat land. My plan is to build a 4 bay shop with carriage house above, and build the main house at a later date. I'll be doing almost all of the general contracting myself and I need a CUT for the following:

-Build and maintain approx. 300' of gravel driveway
-landscape areas around house and shop
-Build and maintain approx. 1/2 acre of vegetable garden
-Site prep for greenhouse and small retail space (so the wife can sell her produce)
-Building front gate and installing fencing
-Snow removal
-Maintain all grass areas around property(aeration,power raking,over-seeding,fertilizing,etc.), aside from mowing (I have a 48" Toro 24hp Z-Master for that)

I need an FEL, BH, Roto-tiler, Manure Spreader, Box Blade, Pallet Forks, Utility Blade w/hydraulic actuation ideally(for snow removal). Any other implements that are seasonal use, i will rent.

The tractor sizes that I've been looking at are John Deere 1 and 2 Family, Kubota BX and B, Mahindra Max 28xl HST. HST transmission is a must so the wife can use the tractor too. I know the SCUT are very capable machines and would probably suit me well, however they have some drawbacks that may prove to be limitations in the long run. I'm starting to lean to the next size category up from the 1 family/BX just to have a little more oomph in certain situations. To say the least, I'm at crossroads. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Today I'm going to a fair about an hour away. All the brands will be there showcasing their products, so I'll be able to see all the models in question. Hope everyone is having a great Labour Day long weekend.

Daniel

 

[Tompet]

Welcome to the forum.
It sounds like you have plans to pack in a lot on your property! Actually from what you wrote I think you have a pretty good handle on your wants vs needs or needs vs wants in regards to a tractor!

Anyway, by going to the show and having the opportunity to whittle down the choices from what you listed sounds like a good way to approach your purchase. There is nothing in your plan of purchase I would disagree with and your initial size/model outline.

Maybe post some particulars from the brands you get to look over at the show. Good luck on the equipment search.

 

[jeff9366]

For one acre you do not NEED more than 25-hp. Before moving up from 25-hp, which is the divide, above which engines must have costly Tier IV emissions controls, consider a heavier 25-hp tractor. It is hard for newbies to understand how tractor weight is as important as tractor horsepower, but it is.

So, besides the Kubota BX and B series, consider the new "cheater" Kubota L-2501, which has 25-hp on a 2,600 pound frame.

I need an FEL, BH, Roto-tiler, Manure Spreader, Box Blade, Pallet Forks, Utility Blade w/hydraulic actuation ideally(for snow removal).

Almost all new 25-hp tractors you look at will have an FEL, HST transmission and R-4 industrial tires. To me, a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment is an indispensable force multiplier for 25-hp tractors. Invaluable for tearing out brush, pushing over 3" young trees, great for piling brush. Also pretty good for light grading and fair for garden prep. You buy the Ratchet Rake from the T-B-N store.

Box Blade and FEL would satisfy many for snow removal you described. Small rear blades do not come with hydraulic control capability. I have posted for this myself but no one knows of a vender.

A 25-hp tractor can power a 48" or 54" PTO powered roto-tiller fine. Depending on your soil, you could perhaps make do with a Potato Plow followed by the Ratchet Rake.

Expand on your need for a $5,000 Backhoe and a manure spreader on ONE acre.

Pallet forks normally attach to the bucket on 25-hp tractors. Cantileevered so far forward, leverage is against you and the load you can lift more that 30" - 36" is quite lmited. SSQA (Skid Steer Quick Attach) pallet forks mount directly on the FEL arms (after bucket is taken off) so lift is considerably increased but I do not think you can get SSQA on the tractors you have mentioned. The manufactures worry about liability from tractor rollovers.

Where are you going to keep this equipment where neither your wife nor your neighbors are going to be peeved at the sight? Related to your equipment list, what is your budget? You have spent $45,000 already.

IMPLEMENT LINK: http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...45263BDD8/11557/pub2917tractorimplements1.pdf

KUBOTA L2501 LINK: Compact Tractors | L2501 | Kubota Tractor Corporation

 

[murphy1244]

Do you have a Kioti dealer near you? or even Mahindra?

 

[DGrenke]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Tompet. I still have more due diligence to do on my purchase. Unfortunately I didn't get as much opportunity as I'd have liked to take in all the machinery at the fair. Baby melt down saw to that. I'll be visiting each dealer in the coming weeks to take a good hard look at the tractors that I'm interested in.

Jeff9366:
As I continue my research, I'm finding that 25ish HP will suit me just fine. However the Kubota L-2601 is too much tractor for me. It's almost a full 1000lbs heavier than the B-2601 that I'm considering. Also the turning radius is close to 2' wider on the L than it is on the B. Regarding the BH, my rational for it is the amount of landscaping that I will be doing around the property. Planting trees, irrigation lines, retaining walls, slab for a greenhouse, footings for fence and gate, to name a few. If I had to rent a mini-ex, it would probably be the same cost as the BH attachment in the long run. The spreader is pointless after I thought more about it more. And luckily the shop I'm building will be large enough to house everything. Which leads to the price of this whole setup. The prices in Canada have gone up due to the USD getting stronger. The local JD dealer quoted me $35000 for a 2032r with FEL and BH. Knock off about $4000 for a 2025r. I haven't gotten a complete price check done for any implements as of yet. Nor have I gotten a competitive price from Kubota or Mahindra. But its probably safe to say that $45000 is pretty close to what I listed will run. I still have a long way to go.

Murph:
I do have a Kioti and Mahindra dealers about an hour away from where I live. Both are still in the running.

Daniel

 

[jeff9366]

Regarding the BACKHOE, my rational for it is the amount of landscaping that I will be doing around the property.

Planting trees, irrigation lines, retaining walls, slab for a greenhouse, footings for fence and gate, to name a few.

A Bucket Spade is very fine for planting trees. How many trees will you plant on ONE acre? You need full sun on the garden or you will not harvest enough produce to sell.

For irrigation lines a Potato Plow or a Subsoiler will do fine, with just a little hand shovel work. How many meters of irrigation line will you install on ONE acre?

For your slab(s) a heavy-for-your-tractor Box Blade is what most would use, in preference to a Backhoe. Maybe a Ratchet Rake and possibly a Tooth Bar digging attachment for your FEL bucket as supplements. In some circumstances, some would use the roto-tiller to loosen slab soil. ('Piranha' brand tooth bars receive rave reviews here.)

PIRANHA TOOTH BAR ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=piranha+tooth+bar

Footings for a fence and gate you can be done handily with an FEL bucket with a Tooth Bar attachment. How many gate footings will you install on ONE acre?


I should have placed this LINK in Post #3:

RATCHET RAKE ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ratchet+Rake

 

[jeff9366]

The tractor sizes that I've been looking at are John Deere 1 and 2 Family, Kubota BX and B, Mahindra Max 28xl HST. I'm starting to lean to the next size category up from the 1 family/BX just to have a little more oomph in certain situations.

It is hard to get tractor newbies to focus on the Three Point Hitch, the key part of the tractor. Tractors are specialized PULLING machines, which is why most are characterized by large rear wheels, and the Three Point Hitch is where working tools (implements) are attached/mounted.

A Backhoe covers the Three Point Hitch.

One advantage of a 'B' size tractor, over a BX size tractor, is that there is more open space around the Three Point Hitch, which makes mounting implements and connecting the cussed PTO shaft on a roto-tiller to the PTO splines on the tractor easier. There is more open space behind an L2501 then there is behind a 'B' size tractor. Mounting implements goes faster with experience, in the beginning it seems impossibly difficult and exasperating. Making PTO connections is ALWAYS exasperating.

 

[jeff9366]

PARAGRAPH replies, for clarity.

 

[varmint]

Reading thru these replies, which contain some solid opinions, I had a few thoughts. Weight is your helper when it comes to tractor work- little machines like BX's run out of traction before power, I think. A SSQA will prove very useful- don't leave a dealer's without one.

Dragging a rear blade to remove snow works, but an angled front blade works even better- if there's some weight behind it, and possibly chains, but that depends on the surface and the snow.

Lastly, a post hole auger, for well under a thousand bucks, can do a lot of useful hole preparation.

 

[Baby Grand]

Welcome to TBN, DGrenke!

How deep is your frost in BC? Just wondering about the footing depths & and plumbing/irrigation lines you will be running. The B-Series (or something of similar capability/capacity in another color) sounds about right to me for the tasks that you have described.

I ended up finally getting a backhoe, which I had planned on having from day 1, after putting off a lot of jobs for 7 years. Around here, hiring them out is very expensive, and renting equipment requires that your crystal ball can tell you what the weather will be and that there won't be any "baby melt downs", or other, unintended surprises to prolong the job, past your rental agreement. Besides, I'd rather do it myself.

As you have discovered, to get the additional capabilities that bigger & heavier tractors offer, you trade off agility and maneuverability. On a one acre property, this means not whacking trees, buildings, fence posts, etc. with your FEL as you try to navigate in close quarters. While we're on the subject, plan your garden layout carefully, leaving room to turn around (head rows) at the ends. Plot size & planned use also suggests that you want to avoid soil compaction as much as possible, so another vote for as light a machine as possible.

Any chance you will be buying additional property in the near future? That could have a definite influence on your selection.

Good luck & let us know how it goes!

-Jim

 

[jc21]

The local JD dealer quoted me $35000 for a 2032r with FEL and BH. Knock off about $4000 for a 2025r.

Sounds like you're in the market for a jack of all trades as I am though it will be next year at the earliest before I can do anything. To me a very big thing would be the ease of attaching and removing implements ... sounds as though you may have do a fair amount of it. I'd think the 2 series JD would be a good choice (though not the only one) in that regard and for other reasons. The 2 Series while still compact are more capable tractors with higher loader and 3 point capacities and I think would prove to be more rugged with an oil cooler for the hydro instead of an exposed fan the 1 series and BX Kubota's use. I'd make sure the H130 loader has the quick change bucket ... easier to change over to pallet forks which should prove to be more than a little useful while building your home. The H130 will lift higher than the 1 series/BX which should make your pallet forks more useful. Artillian has an adapter for their pallet fork setup where you can mount a blade. An iMatch on the 3 point should make changing out implements easier in the rear. I'd lean towards the 2025R for two reasons- 1. the price difference and 2. the 270A backhoe which should prove easier to remove and hookup than the 46 used on the 2032R; you don't have to remove the 3 point arms. The 46 isn't compatible with mid mount mower decks- you iirc, have to pull the subframe should you ever decide to mow (mid mount mower) with your tractor. The new Kubota B ..01 series also rates a good look imho.

Fun spending all your money Seriously though, all the best in whatever you decide ... that's quite an undertaking you're about to jump into. A good tractor/ implements should make it easier. From all my tire kicking I've come to the conclusion there is no perfect tractor. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this already and have no doubt you'll get something that should suit your needs just fine.

 

[RalphVa]

I recently did a comparison between the Kubota B2301 and JD 2025R. The B2301 won handily in the comparison. I went with the 2025 simply because it was going to be too much hassle to go with the Kubota (farther away, etc.). I had an earlier version of the 2025, a JD 4010 which in today's nomenclature was a 2019F. It and the 2025 are essentially the same tractor in many ways, but the 2025 is the best digging tractor with the FEL. The 4010 was a snow handling beast and was very good working a 50x75 garden that I had. For garden work and snow work, you really need 2 side brakes. You don't get these in the JD 1 series nor the Kubota BX series. I had a JD 1025 between the 4010 and 2025 for 2 years. It was a pure lemon and a very rough running tractor.

Ralph

 

[EJP1234]

Sounds like your trying to do a lot on a small lot... Don't take that as an insult, but seriously your not doing much on that size of a property.... And with that said, sounds to me like your trying to buy a 1ton diesel dually truck to tow an 4'x8' utility trailer for a lil firewood if that makes sense... Buy the SCUT of your choice and be happy you saved some money...

I have a lot more property, I have a CK30 with all the goodies you mentioned and then some. I do a lot of things on my property... I cleared an acre of hardwoods with barely getting off the machine except to use the chainsaw and change implements/backhoe...

Trust me when I say your trying to buy a machine you won't really need.

 

[DGrenke]

A Bucket Spade is very fine for planting trees. How many trees will you plant on ONE acre? You need full sun on the garden or you will not harvest enough produce to sell.

For irrigation lines a Potato Plow or a Subsoiler will do fine, with just a little hand shovel work. How many meters of irrigation line will you install on ONE acre?

For your slab(s) a heavy-for-your-tractor Box Blade is what most would use, in preference to a Backhoe. Maybe a Ratchet Rake and possibly a Tooth Bar digging attachment for your FEL bucket as supplements. In some circumstances, some would use the roto-tiller to loosen slab soil. ('Piranha' brand tooth bars receive rave reviews here.)

PIRANHA TOOTH BAR ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=piranha+tooth+bar

Footings for a fence and gate you can be done handily with an FEL bucket with a Tooth Bar attachment. How many gate footings will you install on ONE acre?


I should have placed this LINK in Post #3:

RATCHET RAKE ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ratchet+Rake

I hadn't thought of a bucket blade. Thats a good suggestion to consider. Regarding the garden area, it gets full sun all day. The lot is 101'W x 414'L with nothing on it except 4' tall grass at this point. It's a blank canvas so to speak. I'll definitely purchase a box blade. It has so many uses in what I'll be doing, grading for the slab one of them. The BH will be of use to dig the footings for my garage slab. The fence I plan on building will be quite substantial. Mainly concrete, with metal fabricated 'fencing' (sorry if I'm using improper nomenclature). That Piranha tooth bar looks like a fantastic tool. Thanks for showing that to me :thumbsup:.

 

[DGrenke]

Welcome to TBN, DGrenke!

How deep is your frost in BC? Just wondering about the footing depths & and plumbing/irrigation lines you will be running. The B-Series (or something of similar capability/capacity in another color) sounds about right to me for the tasks that you have described.

I ended up finally getting a backhoe, which I had planned on having from day 1, after putting off a lot of jobs for 7 years. Around here, hiring them out is very expensive, and renting equipment requires that your crystal ball can tell you what the weather will be and that there won't be any "baby melt downs", or other, unintended surprises to prolong the job, past your rental agreement. Besides, I'd rather do it myself.

As you have discovered, to get the additional capabilities that bigger & heavier tractors offer, you trade off agility and maneuverability. On a one acre property, this means not whacking trees, buildings, fence posts, etc. with your FEL as you try to navigate in close quarters. While we're on the subject, plan your garden layout carefully, leaving room to turn around (head rows) at the ends. Plot size & planned use also suggests that you want to avoid soil compaction as much as possible, so another vote for as light a machine as possible.

Any chance you will be buying additional property in the near future? That could have a definite influence on your selection.

Good luck & let us know how it goes!

-Jim

The frost in my area is not very deep at all. Maybe 6"-8" at the most, only at the end of January. I live about 75min north from Oroville, WA, if that helps any of you.

I too prefer to do a lot of my own work. It will save me quite a lot of money in the long run. I'm trying to calculate everything as best as possible looking down the road. Wish I had a crystal ball . I also plan on doing an entire site plan of my property to make sure everything is spaced out appropriately, while still being aesthetically pleasing. I know it's only ONE acre. I do plan on upgrade to a 5-10acre property in the future. But real estate prices are quite high in my area, so I have to start small.

 

[DGrenke]

Sounds like you're in the market for a jack of all trades as I am though it will be next year at the earliest before I can do anything. To me a very big thing would be the ease of attaching and removing implements ... sounds as though you may have do a fair amount of it. I'd think the 2 series JD would be a good choice (though not the only one) in that regard and for other reasons. The 2 Series while still compact are more capable tractors with higher loader and 3 point capacities and I think would prove to be more rugged with an oil cooler for the hydro instead of an exposed fan the 1 series and BX Kubota's use. I'd make sure the H130 loader has the quick change bucket ... easier to change over to pallet forks which should prove to be more than a little useful while building your home. The H130 will lift higher than the 1 series/BX which should make your pallet forks more useful. Artillian has an adapter for their pallet fork setup where you can mount a blade. An iMatch on the 3 point should make changing out implements easier in the rear. I'd lean towards the 2025R for two reasons- 1. the price difference and 2. the 270A backhoe which should prove easier to remove and hookup than the 46 used on the 2032R; you don't have to remove the 3 point arms. The 46 isn't compatible with mid mount mower decks- you iirc, have to pull the subframe should you ever decide to mow (mid mount mower) with your tractor. The new Kubota B ..01 series also rates a good look imho.

I am looking for a jack-of-all-trades type tractor. True there is no such thing as the perfect tractor, only the perfect one for you. Thats great info regarding the 270A vs 46 BH. Very good to know seeing as I would be changing implements often. And I find all the quick attach features that JD offers makes them very attractive, even though they are the most expensive in a big way. All that engineering doesn't come cheap. I won't ever mow with my CUT. I have a dedicated Toro Z-Master for that.

I recently did a comparison between the Kubota B2301 and JD 2025R. The B2301 won handily in the comparison. I went with the 2025 simply because it was going to be too much hassle to go with the Kubota (farther away, etc.). I had an earlier version of the 2025, a JD 4010 which in today's nomenclature was a 2019F. It and the 2025 are essentially the same tractor in many ways, but the 2025 is the best digging tractor with the FEL. The 4010 was a snow handling beast and was very good working a 50x75 garden that I had. For garden work and snow work, you really need 2 side brakes. You don't get these in the JD 1 series nor the Kubota BX series. I had a JD 1025 between the 4010 and 2025 for 2 years. It was a pure lemon and a very rough running tractor.

Ralph

Kubota makes a beautiful machine, no doubt. I'm going to be doing my own comparison in the coming months, and try to come to the best conclusion. And your experience with the 1025r is one I'm finding more and more, the more reading I do and videos I watch. It's a good machine I'm sure, but I want a tractor that will stay with me for a long time, and on to other, larger properties in the future. For those reasons is why I've pretty muted ruled out the 1/BX machines. The Mahindra MAX 28xl is the only SCUT that is still in the mix, due to its loader and 3ph lift capacities. Unfortunately the closest Mahindra dealer is an hour away.

Sorry for the triple reply post. I just figured out how to do the multi-quote reply. I hope I answered everyones posts. Everyone has great insight and information and it will prove to be very valuable in my coming purchase.

Daniel

 

[Popb1949]

Take a good look at the Kubota B series of tractors for your size projects!
Any thing under 26 hp new would be great all new models over 26 hp have Tier 4 DPF emissions
Which in my opinion hurt the power, performance, increase fuel use and harder to maintain, with a high down the road repair requirements
You can get a low hours used tractor with no DPF for almost half of what a new one cost.
My favorite is the Kubota B3030HSTF 30 hp no DPF or B3200HST
Not much difference in price from a 24 hp to a 32 hp tractor in the used market! Pre DPF models are worth looking at!

 

[4570Man]

I am extremely pleased with my Kubota L3240. It would be way too much tractor for one acer, but would be enough tractor to maintain 10 acres in the future. I have a BH 90 backhoe. I have probably gotten my money worth out of it, but even if I haven't it is extremely handy. I am working on a drainage ditch in the back yard. I have probably dug out 5 yards of dirt. This isn't hardly enough to justify renting a machine, but it is A LOT of shovel work. Having a tractor backhoe even if it isn't very strong and doesn't dig in as tight a spot as a mini excavator is perfect for such a project. Just like you plan to do, we build most of our house ourselves, and the tractor paid for its self.

 

[DGrenke]

Take a good look at the Kubota B series of tractors for your size projects!
Any thing under 26 hp new would be great all new models over 26 hp have Tier 4 DPF emissions
Which in my opinion hurt the power, performance, increase fuel use and harder to maintain, with a high down the road repair requirements
You can get a low hours used tractor with no DPF for almost half of what a new one cost.
My favorite is the Kubota B3030HSTF 30 hp no DPF or B3200HST
Not much difference in price from a 24 hp to a 32 hp tractor in the used market! Pre DPF models are worth looking at!

I would definitely consider a used model for the right price. I too am not a fan of the new emissions regulations. It's an added unnecessary cost imho. The B3030 or B3200 look like great machines. I hope I can find one in my area to see in person. The attractive part of buying new is having the warranty. Especially that I'll be using it pretty heavily in the first two years.

 

[Popb1949]

A low hours used tractor that has been maintained is as good as a new one!
Most have deprecated more in price than in actual use!
There are some on Tractorbynet for half what they sold for new
I just purchased one that was loaded with a FEL, a 72 in MMM,
R4 tires, rear hydralic outlets and weights and only 300 hours on it
It sold for 26,500.00 new I gave $15,600.00 for it tax and all.