Anybody using a backhoe attachment on their CUT?

[DonaldP]

The backhoe itself does. The subframe has never been an issue - I’ll have to take a closer once my tractor is fully back together. The subframe is mainly two rails running from the loader posts back to the rear axle. I’ve never noticed them hung up on anything, and the paint is still in fairly good shape on them. I have dragged the belly pan a couple of times (once when I unexpectedly hit some deep mud), but that’s something I added, not part of the subframe.

Talk about dragging the belly...

I drove my new 3560 HSTC cab off the lot and loaded it on a trailer furnished (reluctantly) by the dealership. I had mentioned to the salesperson that the bottom of the backhoe would definitely hit the ground taking it up the ramp driving forward. He said "ahh it doesn't matter, every backhoe I've seen is torn up on the bottom from this".

Little did I realize (nor did he, that backing the tractor would still get it on the trailer, without tearing up the bottom of the Backhoe.

My thought looking back is it wasn't his machine nor his $52,500 so he didn't care, and wouldn't help point me in the right direction for the same reason.

Customer service... I understand it's difficult, but gee whiz!

 

[pokey1416]

That's design and ergonomics built together. Awesome to be able to leave the lower arms in the tractor. I did a video here on trying to mount the BH92 Backhoe on the Kubota 3560... just NO clearance at all with the 3 point left on.

Additionally, I've found that a top&tilt option for the Kubota isn't offered if you have a backhoe subframe. Again clearance issued prevent this. You would think that instead of designing a subframe, and then finding that other upgrade or additional offered updates to the hydraulic functionality are hindered by its design, that Kubota would have done a contentious design taking into consideration all they need to.

You can do the top just not the tilt w/ BH. My dealer takes the OEM TnT Kit and sells just the T.

 

[John_Mc]

Is it the hydraulic remotes or the side link cylinder itself that interferes with the backhoe subframe? I can't really see what would interfere in that picture. Looking at the left sidelink lift arm, it looks as though you could just substitute a hydraulic cylinder there. Or is the upper attach point for the backhoe too close to it?

It does look crowded enough that you would have to take the lift arms off when installing the backhoe.

 

[rScotty]

I have a subframe backhoe on my Kubota b8200 and never plan to take it off. But here’s where it gets weird: I HAVE spent a fair bit of time thinking about putting some draw pins on the back of the backhoe frame and using pull type 3pt attachments with the backhoe in place!

I thought about that too. It would work for towed implements but doesn't do anything for 3pt ones.

Then I got to thinking about maybe coming up with a front 3pt hitch. After all, I don't do all that much 3pt work and half of what I do could be done by reversing the implement and using it on the front of the tractor. Gotta be easier than taking off the backhoe and then piss-anting those horribly heavy 3pt arms into position.

So my first try was do it the easy way.... The M59 has a really stout loader & frame (4000 lb lift) so I stopped by the dealer and bought a SSQA 3pt, dropped the FEL bucket, put the SSQA 3pt on the front, hooked the 3pt to my smallest 6 foot back blade, and reversed the blade. Then gave it a try.

Wow! No good at all! Danger !!

For one thing, the whole affair sticks out so far forward that the smallest adjustment to lift arms or bucket tilt makes that grader blade jump a foot or more. It's like trying to sign your name with a six foot pencil.

Secondly - and more importantly - The stress on the loader frame and arms is clearly way too high. They flex. Moving half an inch of topsoil going forward is probably possible dead slowly ....anything more than that - or hitting a rock - is going to bend and break things.
Thirdly, a 3pt has float built in. I hadn't thought of that. The 3pt arms go up freely - but my loader arms do not. I have to position the arms at just the right height and then engage float with the loader control - which drops the arms a few inches requiring starting all over again and every bump means more delicate positioning.

This was not going to end well, so I gave it one more try by reversing the blade and pulling it towards me while driving backwards. I put my hat on backwards just to get in the spririt of the thing.

After all, grading and plowing backwards is just weird enough to be interesting, it might even work, and if nothing else will fascinate the neighbors. They don't have to wonder if I'm odd - they already know..... But no joy... same problems. Not enough fine control and still too much stress plus that float problem is still there. Plan #1 fails....

I still think a front 3pt is reasonable, but the loader arms are NOT the place to mount it. Now I'm looking at that front bumper .... that bumper is it's pretty darn stout......and easy to drill to mount some pivots. Maybe I can reinforce the brush guard enough to mount a top link top link...
There's nothing up there that matters all that much. Just an air filter.... plus some sort of oil cooler & the radiator of course....

rScotty

 

[Vigo327]

Thanks for sharing that experience. I am planning to build a multipurpose ‘base plate’ for one of my FELS that will take 3pt attachments, but i figure it is mostly for purposes of landscape raking, and just moving/loading 3 pt stuff without scuffing or damaging it with straps and chains.

As far as the ‘3pt on a backhoe’ thing I can envision simply having the backhoe boom raise the 3pt by chain. With a rod linkage it could have down pressure. If i ran the top link backwards out to the dipper stick (similar area to where a hydraulic thumb cylinder would mount) it would have a ‘power top link’ built in but would sure not stay level as it went up and down, no position control, no draft control.

In my mind id just be using it to pull a plow or cultivator that would just be set down and drug. But we’ll see if i ever even attempt it!

 

[bdhsfz6]

I thought about that too. It would work for towed implements but doesn't do anything for 3pt ones.

Then I got to thinking about maybe coming up with a front 3pt hitch. After all, I don't do all that much 3pt work and half of what I do could be done by reversing the implement and using it on the front of the tractor. Gotta be easier than taking off the backhoe and then piss-anting those horribly heavy 3pt arms into position.

So my first try was do it the easy way.... The M59 has a really stout loader & frame (4000 lb lift) so I stopped by the dealer and bought a SSQA 3pt, dropped the FEL bucket, put the SSQA 3pt on the front, hooked the 3pt to my smallest 6 foot back blade, and reversed the blade. Then gave it a try.

Wow! No good at all! Danger !!

For one thing, the whole affair sticks out so far forward that the smallest adjustment to lift arms or bucket tilt makes that grader blade jump a foot or more. It's like trying to sign your name with a six foot pencil.

Secondly - and more importantly - The stress on the loader frame and arms is clearly way too high. They flex. Moving half an inch of topsoil going forward is probably possible dead slowly ....anything more than that - or hitting a rock - is going to bend and break things.
Thirdly, a 3pt has float built in. I hadn't thought of that. The 3pt arms go up freely - but my loader arms do not. I have to position the arms at just the right height and then engage float with the loader control - which drops the arms a few inches requiring starting all over again and every bump means more delicate positioning.

This was not going to end well, so I gave it one more try by reversing the blade and pulling it towards me while driving backwards. I put my hat on backwards just to get in the spririt of the thing.

After all, grading and plowing backwards is just weird enough to be interesting, it might even work, and if nothing else will fascinate the neighbors. They don't have to wonder if I'm odd - they already know..... But no joy... same problems. Not enough fine control and still too much stress plus that float problem is still there. Plan #1 fails....

I still think a front 3pt is reasonable, but the loader arms are NOT the place to mount it. Now I'm looking at that front bumper .... that bumper is it's pretty darn stout......and easy to drill to mount some pivots. Maybe I can reinforce the brush guard enough to mount a top link top link...
There's nothing up there that matters all that much. Just an air filter.... plus some sort of oil cooler & the radiator of course....

rScotty

I had the same experience with an SSQA 3pt adapter on both my MX5800 and L6060 tractors. Most attachments put too much strain on the FEL arms. The only 3pt implements I use on the front now are a cinder spreader and a cement mixer which are powered by the 3rd function valve. Neither puts any side load on the FEL arms.

 

[Dozernut]

I had a 3pt. backhoe, my two happiest times were when I bought and when I sold it. The hoe was handy when you needed it but, the actual need was not often enough to justify it. My Kubota [an L4610] needed the 3pt. hitch removed every time you mounted the frame mounted backhoe.

Those arms are heavy, and you need to store them. When you needed the brush mower, the blade or other attachments, then you have to demount the backhoe and bolt the 3pt. hitch arms back on. My experience was not the easy time that others are writhing about. If I need a hoe, I will go with a mini excavator and leave the tractor unburdened.

Just my two cents!

 

[California]

I had a 3pt. backhoe, my two happiest times were when I bought and when I sold it. The hoe was handy when you needed it but, the actual need was not often enough to justify it. My Kubota [an L4610] needed the 3pt. hitch removed every time you mounted the frame mounted backhoe.

Those arms are heavy, and you need to store them. When you needed the brush mower, the blade or other attachments, then you have to demount the backhoe and bolt the 3pt. hitch arms back on. My experience was not the easy time that others are writhing about. If I need a hoe, I will go with a mini excavator and leave the tractor unburdened.

Just my two cents!

Wow. My 3-point backhoe mounts same as any other 3-point implement. Its hydraulics can be used for final alignment. Then reach in and slide its pump onto the PTO. Done.

 

[John_Mc]

Wow. My 3-point backhoe mounts same as any other 3-point implement. Its hydraulics can be used for final alignment. Then reach in and slide its pump onto the PTO. Done.

Yeah, a 3 point hitch mounted backhoe would do that. Unfortunately, many compact tractors cannot hand the stresses of a backhoe mounted to the 3 point hitch. Hence the need for a subframe for the backhoe to mount on.

 

[Jstpssng]

Yeah, a 3 point hitch mounted backhoe would do that. Unfortunately, many compact tractors cannot hand the stresses of a backhoe mounted to the 3 point hitch. Hence the need for a subframe for the backhoe to mount on.

That’s why I plan to replace the head gasket and get my 8N running as a backhoe carrier. The oil pressure is weak, the hydraulic pump for the 3pth doesn’t work. The rear brakes need work, and of course there are none on the front. But the rear housing is solid and it moves down the road… or at least it did when I parked it in the field several years ago. I changed the antifreeze and oil before walking away from it, so hopefully I can get it going for my intended use.

 

[Vigo327]

Having a dedicated carrier machine would be good because you have the very desirable option to bring the hoe in a lot closer than the end of the 3pt arms. Close enough to be able to use a rotating seat. Close enough to not lose as much steering authority with no FEL as front counterweight, or at least reduce the need for as much front counterweight. I think being 'forced' to install 'live' hydraulics on an 8n is not a bad thing either, the stock ones would suck no matter what and them not working just removes the temptation to try to build to them. I have read articles about automotive power steering pumps in racing applications that said the common 'canned ham' sort of pumps that were on everything for about 30 years can actually flow about 20gpm at high rpm. That means they could flow maybe 6-8gpm at a comfortable rpm for an 8N. They have 'priority flow divider valves' in them to reduce their output to something they can consistently make across a car engine's rpm range (probably about 2gpm with the rest recirculated internally), but if you remove that valve you have enough output to run your hoe easily.

 

[DonaldP]

You can do the top just not the tilt w/ BH. My dealer takes the OEM TnT Kit and sells just the T.

View attachment 775123

Awesome feedback!! Thank you!

Don

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

My Yanmar YM240 weighs about the same as your YM2310. I need the front bucket dug in, usually rolled all the way forward, (photo) to anchor the tractor against the backhoe's ability to pull the tractor back toward the excavation. The backhoe's feet plus locking the brakes aren't sufficient. So lifting the back of your tractor might serve for moving it sideways, but trying to move it forward against locked brakes and that front bucket is not going to advance along the line of the trench very well.

Running linkage forward to the PowerShift shift lever may add to the danger of using a backhoe. Things can go wrong unexpectedly on a tractor. For example if the linkage gets stuck in Drive, then leaping off the backhoe seat and running to get up on the (slow) moving tractor as it approaches rollover or something, maybe the front fell in a hole for example, or your subframe broke and jammed the shift linkage to a faster speed, could be dangerous. Let's see if others use a similar linkage.

I do reach forward with a shovel to nudge the throttle lever sometimes. The shovel is in a golf bag strapped to the ROPS. (old photo)

Here's a photo showing how the loader subframe is attached at the rear axle on my YM240. I think this stiffening has prevented the hoe from damaging this tractor.

And not relevant to you, but to someone else with a 3-point backhoe - they aren't designed for down-pressure! I bent a 3-point lower arm dragging the tractor sideways with the hoe. It took a BFH to straighten the arm. Not recommended!

For repositioning I put a heavy rock on the seat and have a pulley with a rope tied to the peddle and ran outside. About half way through this video shows the set up.

 

[pokey1416]

I advance back or forward or side to side with the BH push or pull method - but whatever works. I don’t have enough ingenuity to invent your solution

 

[bdhsfz6]

I use a bent piece of rebar clipped to the HST pedal. That way, I can operate it from the backhoe seat.

 

[5030]

Whatever yo do, just keep in mind that without a dedicated subframe, the chances of cracking the rear housing and incurring a huge repair bill are very great. No small tractor can absorb the stress without bad things happening back there. I know someone that happened to with an L model and the repair bill was north of 10 grand and Kubota will not warrant that and neither will anyone else.

 

[dkmc]

Whatever yo do, just keep in mind that without a dedicated subframe, the chances of cracking the rear housing and incurring a huge repair bill are very great. No small tractor can absorb the stress without bad things happening back there. I know someone that happened to with an L model and the repair bill was north of 10 grand and Kubota will not warrant that and neither will anyone else.

I know someone also. I was shocked (as was the owner) to see the housing was an Alu. casting not iron. He managed to find a guy that did the swap, it took lots of hours. Not sure what model Kubota it is.

 

[5030]

Most modern tractors are today (aluminum pressure die castings) If properly gusseted internally, they are just fine but they will still crack under undue stress, but so will cast iron for that matter.

 

[Omega Woods]

My Branson has a BH. I use it quite a bit for digging stuff. It's just about the right size for working around the farm and not getting in a hurry. I'm thinking of getting a mini ex for a variety of reasons but if a fellow doesn't have need of that, a tractor mounted 760 or 860 size hoe is a good thing to have.

 

[Jstpssng]

Most modern tractors are today (aluminum pressure die castings) If properly gusseted internally, they are just fine but they will still crack under undue stress, but so will cast iron for that matter.

I believe that my old L275 had a cast iron housing, yet a friend had the same model tractor which had had the rear housing pulled off with a BH.
I used my Woods 750 behind my L3301 for a while. I thought that as long as I was careful I would be fine, but then realized how much twisting occurred when I was just going down the road with it.
I haven’t had it on in 2 years, I’ve got an old 8N which needs a head gasket, then it will become the BH carrier.