Anybody using a backhoe attachment on their CUT?

[John_Mc]

As the owner of the TC33D that broke at the clutch housing, I can tell you that it had nothing to do with the backhoe. The backhoe has not even been on the tractor in over 10 years, and was used lightly and rarely before then. My break was likely due to extensive loader work (I was attempting to dig out a small stump when it finally let go all the way, though the evidence shows that the crack had started a while ago.) My tractor is really too small for the logging I have been doing with it. I'm careful, but after 21 year of that use, apparently I'm not careful enough. As we were disassembling the tractor for repair, we found a couple of bolts that had worked loose, and one of the loader mount bolts was broken. Those loose bolts are the kiss of death when you are working these tractors hard.

Problems with cracked transmission or clutch housings are a known issue with these tractors (which is exactly why I have the backhoe subframe on it, even though I don't really use the backhoe: The subframe provides a lot of reinforcement.)

The ONLY way I wold use a backhoe on a compact tractor is with a subframe (I suppose there may well be some models that can handle it, but why chance it.) There are a number of CUTs that when equipped with a well-designed subframe can handle an appropriately sized backhoe, you just have to use some common sense when operating it. If you are picking up the tractor and slamming it around, you are abusing it and it's likely you will eventually have problems. Stump duty is one of the tougher jobs.

A CUT with a backhoe can do a lot of work, but having used a mini excavator (my neighbor owns one), I can tell you that I will not buy a backhoe for my new tractor. If my neighbor sells is mini excavator, I'll just rent one. Anything I can do with a backhoe on a cut, I can do easier and quicker with a mini excavator. Renting a mini ex for the few times I might need it is far less expensive than buying a backhoe and subframe.

 

[jjeff]

As the owner of the TC33D that broke at the clutch housing, I can tell you that it had nothing to do with the backhoe. The backhoe has not even been on the tractor in over 10 years, and was used lightly and rarely before then. My break was likely due to extensive loader work (I was attempting to dig out a small stump when it finally let go all the way, though the evidence shows that the crack had started a while ago.) My tractor is really too small for the logging I have been doing with it. I'm careful, but after 21 year of that use, apparently I'm not careful enough. As we were disassembling the tractor for repair, we found a couple of bolts that had worked loose, and one of the loader mount bolts was broken. Those loose bolts are the kiss of death when you are working these tractors hard.

Problems with cracked transmission or clutch housings are a known issue with these tractors (which is exactly why I have the backhoe subframe on it, even though I don't really use the backhoe: The subframe provides a lot of reinforcement.)

The ONLY way I wold use a backhoe on a compact tractor is with a subframe (I suppose there may well be some models that can handle it, but why chance it.) There are a number of CUTs that when equipped with a well-designed subframe can handle an appropriately sized backhoe, you just have to use some common sense when operating it. If you are picking up the tractor and slamming it around, you are abusing it and it's likely you will eventually have problems. Stump duty is one of the tougher jobs.

A CUT with a backhoe can do a lot of work, but having used a mini excavator (my neighbor owns one), I can tell you that I will not buy a backhoe for my new tractor. If my neighbor sells is mini excavator, I'll just rent one. Anything I can do with a backhoe on a cut, I can do easier and quicker with a mini excavator. Renting a mini ex for the few times I might need it is far less expensive than buying a backhoe and subframe.

Curious question, tc is a new Holland? Does it or did it have some sort of a subframe for the loader? Particularly braces running from the loaders mast on each side to the rear axle. Apologize for the hijack drift.

 

[John_Mc]

Curious question, tc is a new Holland? Does it or did it have some sort of a subframe for the loader? Particularly braces running from the loaders mast on each side to the rear axle. Apologize for the hijack drift.

Yes, the TC33D is a New Holland. From the factory, there was no subframe connecting the loader towers to the rear axles. I added the Woods 4 point quick attach backhoe subframe (if I'm remembering the name correctly). The subframe runs from the loader mast to the rear axle. I also mounted a belly pan/skid plate between the rails of the subframe, which reinforces the subframe quite a bit.

 

[hornett22]

As the owner of the TC33D that broke at the clutch housing, I can tell you that it had nothing to do with the backhoe. The backhoe has not even been on the tractor in over 10 years, and was used lightly and rarely before then. My break was likely due to extensive loader work (I was attempting to dig out a small stump when it finally let go all the way, though the evidence shows that the crack had started a while ago.) My tractor is really too small for the logging I have been doing with it. I'm careful, but after 21 year of that use, apparently I'm not careful enough. As we were disassembling the tractor for repair, we found a couple of bolts that had worked loose, and one of the loader mount bolts was broken. Those loose bolts are the kiss of death when you are working these tractors hard.

Problems with cracked transmission or clutch housings are a known issue with these tractors (which is exactly why I have the backhoe subframe on it, even though I don't really use the backhoe: The subframe provides a lot of reinforcement.)

The ONLY way I wold use a backhoe on a compact tractor is with a subframe (I suppose there may well be some models that can handle it, but why chance it.) There are a number of CUTs that when equipped with a well-designed subframe can handle an appropriately sized backhoe, you just have to use some common sense when operating it. If you are picking up the tractor and slamming it around, you are abusing it and it's likely you will eventually have problems. Stump duty is one of the tougher jobs.

A CUT with a backhoe can do a lot of work, but having used a mini excavator (my neighbor owns one), I can tell you that I will not buy a backhoe for my new tractor. If my neighbor sells is mini excavator, I'll just rent one. Anything I can do with a backhoe on a cut, I can do easier and quicker with a mini excavator. Renting a mini ex for the few times I might need it is far less expensive than buying a backhoe and subframe.

Sounds like maybe you should have used the backhoe more often. Especially for stumps. I've dug out some monster stumps with my 1626.

 

[Viny]

I have a Kubota M4700. I've had a small 3pt hitch/pto pump backhoe attachment. I've probably had it for close to20 years. It really boils down to how much and how you are going to use it. For me, I don't dig backhoe type holes very often so this solution works for me. If I needed to dig more often, I'd probably have upgraded to a dedicated machine long ago. One thing I really like about my solution is that I don't have another engine that has to be kept up with. I would definitely explore the option presented above of looking into getting a smaller bucket as you already know that machine and your learning curve would basically be eliminated. Good luck!

 

[Jstpssng]

As we were disassembling the tractor for repair, we found a couple of bolts that had worked loose, and one of the loader mount bolts was broken.

You've convinced me that I need to crawl around on the ground and check bolts. As I was reading your first post about breaking the housing I was thinking that logging is hard on the small tractors.

 

[GeneSimm7]

Greetings All,
I just can't seem to get this out of my mind. I have a Yanmar YM2310 with an FEL and a Case 580CK backhoe. I no longer need the big backhoe. It digs well but the bucket is 2 feet wide. And the machine is huge compared to my Yanmar. Now the only digging I need to do is ditches for water lines and a few power lines. I could really use a small backhoe with a thumb.
I move a lot of rocks because we have so many and every time I dig I get more. My back is slowly fusing itself, some sort of genetic thing, and this makes it particularly hard on my back when moving heavy things. Being able to pick and place rocks with a thumb would save me a lot of trouble and pain.
I would love to have a small excavator but I can't justify the expense. I have been looking to trade my big hoe for a smaller one but haven't had any luck with that. So I'm wondering if a subframe mounted backhoe on my Yanmar would be useful. Maybe something like this: 5\' Dig Self Contained Backhoe, VL-BHM5 | Betstco Sales, Parts, and Service:
I can build the subframe myself, I have a complete machine shop and welders and the expertise. Since I'm retired the shop is free for me to play in. The hoe would be powered with a PTO pump.
Anybody with a good amount of experience that wants to chime in I would greatly appreciate anything you would have to say.
Thanks,
Eric

Why not trade your 580 on an excavator. I have a JD 35G with a thumb and it is just great for doing what you want to do with the rocks.

 

[marks146]

Greetings All,
I just can't seem to get this out of my mind. I have a Yanmar YM2310 with an FEL and a Case 580CK backhoe. I no longer need the big backhoe. It digs well but the bucket is 2 feet wide. And the machine is huge compared to my Yanmar. Now the only digging I need to do is ditches for water lines and a few power lines. I could really use a small backhoe with a thumb.
for me to play in. The hoe would be powered with a PTO pump.
Anybody with a good amount of experience that wants to chime in I would greatly appreciate anything you would have to say.
Thanks,
Eric

Been using a Woods BH80 on my Kubota Grand L3240 cab for around 13 years. It's a subframe unit with a 15" bucket. A couple of things to consider. The dipper and reach arms are shorter than a conventional backhoe, so you don't get a long reach or depth. It's heavy and rides low on the subframe so you have to keep that in mind when you move around because it's quite a way behind the rear wheels. When you go up a bank it can drag. Not a real issue unless you care about what it drags on. Other than those couple of watches it's worked great for my intended use. Don't plan on a bucket any larger than 15" or you'll overtax it. It takes me around 15 minutes to hook it up and less then 10 minutes to unhook it. No big deal here. Just remember, every time you need to reposition you have to get off the BH and get into the cab to move the unit. A small price to pay for the convenience.

 

[m5040]

The CUT backhoes hang too far off the tractor and you can't pick and carry much weight. They are too hard to put on and off.

I have a JD 310D, but 75% of the time I use my Power Trac with a front hoe attachment, they pull out rocks larger then they can carry and with the rear engine as a counterweight, they can carry a lot. The hoe is on and off in a couple of min with only 2 small hyd hoses.

I pick and carry with a mechanical thumb and it's great. I can see it from the driver's seat to make precise grabs.

 

[kenbgbill]

Greetings All,
I just can't seem to get this out of my mind. I have a Yanmar YM2310 with an FEL and a Case 580CK backhoe. I no longer need the big backhoe. It digs well but the bucket is 2 feet wide. And the machine is huge compared to my Yanmar. Now the only digging I need to do is ditches for water lines and a few power lines. I could really use a small backhoe with a thumb.
I move a lot of rocks because we have so many and every time I dig I get more. My back is slowly fusing itself, some sort of genetic thing, and this makes it particularly hard on my back when moving heavy things. Being able to pick and place rocks with a thumb would save me a lot of trouble and pain.
I would love to have a small excavator but I can't justify the expense. I have been looking to trade my big hoe for a smaller one but haven't had any luck with that. So I'm wondering if a subframe mounted backhoe on my Yanmar would be useful. Maybe something like this: 5\' Dig Self Contained Backhoe, VL-BHM5 | Betstco Sales, Parts, and Service:
I can build the subframe myself, I have a complete machine shop and welders and the expertise. Since I'm retired the shop is free for me to play in. The hoe would be powered with a PTO pump.
Anybody with a good amount of experience that wants to chime in I would greatly appreciate anything you would have to say.
Thanks,
Eric

I have a Kubota BX25D which includes a backhoe. I love it and wouldn’t trade it for anything. This little beast has never failed to perform. It’s limited in depth to 6’ in easy digging. IT’s biggest achievement was a 1000’ trench, 4’ deep for water and power lines from Road to a build site. It took a while, but never once failed to deliver.

 

[John_Mc]

The CUT backhoes hang too far off the tractor and you can't pick and carry much weight. They are too hard to put on and off.

I'll agree with the first part of that statement. However, for the last part it depends on what you have for a backhoe/subframe set-up. I've not put the backhoe on my Woods 4 point quick-attach subframe in something like 10 years, but I'm even as out of practice as I am, I could get it on in less than 15 minutes. Back when I was in practice, it was somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes to install. It took about 5 minutes to remove.

It's heavy and rides low on the subframe so you have to keep that in mind when you move around because it's quite a way behind the rear wheels. When you go up a bank it can drag. Not a real issue unless you care about what it drags on.

That was always a concern with my backhoe. I run in hilly areas and on uneven ground. Even loading the tractor on a trailer took special care to keep things from scrpaing on the ground going up the ramp.

 

[John_Mc]

You've convinced me that I need to crawl around on the ground and check bolts. As I was reading your first post about breaking the housing I was thinking that logging is hard on the small tractors.

Something I should have been doing a lot more of, especially since this sort of cracking was a known concern on these tractors.

 

[DonaldP]

If you have back issues climbing in and out of the BH seat to get into the tractor seat every 3 feet will get old and stale real fast. Do yourself a favour and find a CUT/SCUT TLB that has a swivel seat.

I've owned an AG CUT with subframe BH and will never buy one again. AG tractors just aren't made to handle construction duty. Sub-frame BH's suck almost as much as 3PH BH.

Sell your Case 580 and buy an older used mini-x with a thumb. Thank me later.

I own a Kubota 3560 cab with a 9'2" depth backhoe (BH92). 800 hours since 2020 new.

I agree with you to a point, but losing the flexibility and overall functionality of his Case is going to be hard for him to stomach it seems.

You are talking a bit like the Morgan's on YouTube. That is, with an unlimited budget and someone else providing the equipment, then yes ...absolutely, everything's a possibility.

I also disagree with these kind of viewpoints, folks that say "if you need to rent something in the future to fit an exact need, then do it. Save the wear and tear on your own equip".

Why do I disagree with that?

The purpose of getting a TLB or tractor with a backhoe is that it provides the flexibility to do it all, or most of what you need all from a single machine albeit adding additional implements along the way to get there.

The purpose, like the Morgan's state, isn't to buy a $50,000 TLB (or get it free for 3 years) and then rent a machine to do the "hard" work every time you need to do something major so you don't put wear and tear on your personal machine. Nor is it to just go out and buy an excavator as well, because everything you do needs to fit perfectly "inside the lines" of general contracting etiquette.

Making a $600 or $700 monthly payment for 7 years one would think, should be the bulk of costs to manage 85% of basic equipment needs for non specific use needs (which is why most folks buy a TLB over an excavator to begin with).

But to get dinged another $2500 to $5000 a year to rent additional equipment on top of that? I don't think so. Not if you can do what this gentleman is attempting to do, and that's to extend his basic functionality without overworking his checkbook.

At that point you become a user of equipment that is just not affordable for general around the home of around the farm use UNLESS you are able to use it for quasi commercial activities or personal uses that do require such equipment.

Not to mention that renting an excavator a few times a year doesn't give a TLB user the experience to hop in the seat and just get it done. Your personal experience with both TLB and excavators, although respectable, isn't something that's shared by lots of users out there that are simply looking at adding an implement to give added value and functionality to their existing equipment.

Lots of folks can give that direction, but moving to an excavator from a TLB, or simply adding an excavator to one's equipment list is a very rash way to accomplish making things a "bit" easier at minimal investment. Just my thought process.

Now, given that, YES... there are situations where someone that's got the $, has the use, or can generate enough use of an excavator to purchase one and make it a permanent part of their equipment trove, can and does work. But personally, I'm reticent to simply add another new piece of equipment at another $700 to $800/month, even worse... an old beat up piece, that I will have to continually make repairs to before I can use it.

So even the notion of getting something cheap, although it sounds easy, may create unanticipated consequences or issues that could make it a leap of faith over real work benefit.

 

[Gstigs]

I have a Kubota BX 25D that has a sub frame mounted BH
And does a great job although being a 2016 the newer models actually have a higher weight lifting capacity but they will dig 6’with a 10” bucket.

 

[DonaldP]

I have a Kubota BX 25D that has a sub frame mounted BH
And does a great job although being a 2016 the newer models actually have a higher weight lifting capacity but they will dig 6’with a 10” bucket. View attachment 774008View attachment 774007

That's an awesome machine!!! You can get places with that thing many others just can't!!!

 

[dkmc]

A neighbor had a BH attachment on his Kubota and ended up cracking the aluminum trans case. I think any 'subframe' should be extra beefy to avoid stress on the tractor frame/case. I know it's not what you asked, but how about a used skid steer with a BH attachment? I have and old Arps hoe I adapted to my 1983 Mustang 342 and it works great. Not like a full size BH but, I always compare it to a shovel, and I like it much better! The skid steer arms with the BH outriggers direct the stress into the ground. I doubt I can hurt the skid steer with the BH. Oh, self employed machinist here as well....I like to build things in the shop so I know where you're coming from.

 

[Dale Mercer]

I down sized from a Case 520 to a MASSEY GC 1723. I'm not surprised what the little tractor will not do but I am surprised by what it will do. My dealer got me a Gabble for the loader. I think the Gabble is better than a thumb . With the thumb if you want to move a rock you move from tractor seat to backhoe then from the backhoe to the tractor. With the Gabble I stay on tractor seat and go pick up the rock and move it.

 

[Dale Mercer]

Third try to post I like a Grabble over a thumb. Don't have to move from tractor seat to backhoe seat. Just stay on tractor and move what you want to move

 

[jjeff]

Grapple?

 

[etpm]

Boy oh boy, did my post generate a lot of replies! Thanks Everyone!
I now have at least one more question. And some observations too. When using the Case 580 it is not very easy to turn the seat around. So when moving the machine short distances I usually use the hoe for this task. The hoe will pick up the rear wheels so even side to side movements are possible and I have done it often. But more than one person here has said I will need to climb off the hoe and back onto the tractor to move it every three feet. Why would this need to be done?
I have looked at the linkage for the Power Shift and have determined that I could, without too much trouble, hook up a shifter so I could go forward or backward while sitting in the backhoe seat. Since the Power Shift doesn't require clutching it would be sorta like using the shuttle shift on the Case.
Since I would be using a sub frame with the little hoe would it still be dangerous to the tractor to lift the rear and shift it sideways like I do with the Case? I did crawl under the tractor to see how a sub frame would fit because there is already the FEL frame. Using cardboard and cutting it to fit around stuff I can see that I can make a sub frame that will work and bolt into the existing channel frame at the front of the tractor and clamp around the rear axle housing. There are even a set of grooves on each side of the rear axle housings that appear to be there for just this purpose.
Most of the rocks I will need to pick up weigh less than 200 pounds so as long as the thumb will allow that I would be pretty happy. For heavier rocks I would still use the bucket as I do now.
I do understand that the little hoe will not dig like the Case but I don't expect it to. If the Case wasn't so big I would just use it for everything. And I could just rent a mini excavator except the nearest rental place is about 60 miles from me and I would need it delivered. Living on an island can have its drawbacks.
I'm gonna keep reading this thread before I make a purchase. Like I said I have looked for someone who would want to trade my big Case for a smaller machine. And I'll keep looking for that option too. If I could trade it for a mini excavator with a thumb I would be very happy. But that's not gonna happen.
Thanks,
Eric