Buying Advice Advice on First Utility Tractor Purchase

[mikema0477]

I have about 1.5 acres. 0.5 acres is lawn. The rest is wooded and is currently overgrown by brush, trees, etc. I will probably have the opportunity to purchase 1 or 1.5 more adjacent acres in a few months and will probably do just that.

I need something that can move rocks...lots and lots and lots of rocks. The land is full of them, the majority of them exposed in some sort of way to make maneuverability a stinking mess. You can get a hand on most of them, but you would still need to dig them out. From reading the forums the majority of the advice seems to be to hire/rent a large industrial-size machine to move rocks around (and I plan on doing just that to move some of the gigantic ones), but believe me when I tell you I will be working on digging rocks out of the ground for a long long time. I want to stack a bunch of them to create a retaining wall...figured I would need a backhoe for that.

I am also going to need to do your normal brush clearing and stump removing activities and something that can drag large (12"+) downed trees to a staging area for a chipper.

I also see the need to hitch up a trailer or a smaller chipper to take into certain areas on a fairly regular basis. If that is the case should I forget about getting an attached backhoe and just purchase one of those towable backhoe products?

I also need something that I can use to clear snow from about 300ft of driveway.

For the most part I think a Kubota BX25 would do the trick, except for one thing: ground clearance. But it looks like the B series has more ground clearance which I think would be really beneficial given the rocky terrain. Is it worth the extra cost? Also would I lose a lot of maneuverability with that? And it looks like it has a stronger backhoe which could make a difference. I know what the stat sheets say but I am hoping to get some real-world evidence here.

Any advice you folks can offer would be appreciated. I should also note that I am not stuck on Kubota. Any other suggestions on make/models that you think would do the trick can help. We have a Mahindra and JD dealer that is somewhat close and a Kioti dealer about 1 hour away.

 

[dave1949]

Welcome to TBN!

Rocks are a challenge if they are large. I wouldn't recommend a tow-behind backhoe. It doesn't take very long to remove/attach a backhoe from most tractors when you need to use a chipper of other 3pt tool.

Some pics of the rocks would help. For wall stacking rocks heavier than you want to lift, a hydraulic thumb on the backhoe bucket is a good thing. That would allow you to pick up and place a rock with reasonable accuracy.

Without pics I would think you want something more in the Kubota L series size. You won't beat up a larger tractor as much as a small one and it will reduce your rentals and the hassles that come with that. You can always drop back to a smaller unit once the heavy work is done, if that ever happens. :laughing:

 

[mikema0477]

Thanks, Dave. I will have to get some good pictures tomorrow. It looks like the moon in some places!

I should have mentioned that storage/price is an issue, so I think the L series is out unfortunately.

 

[Halftrack]

I would suggest something much larger than your BX 25. Sure, it comes with a backhoe and doesn't take up much space but when dealing with large rocks and stumps, its just a toy. If you need convincing, find a rental in your area and try one out for a day. Now consider a machine that will allow you to accomplish something daily, like a Case 580 tractor/loader/backhoe (TLB). Used ones are very common and reasonably priced. Most people use them for a specific job and then resale them once finished. The older ones without 4WD and an enclosed cab are available and cheaper. Things to check are easy starting and strong engine, shuttle tranny is tight and look for leaking hoses and cylinders. It is also a machine that you won't break the first time you use/abuse it. Probably buy one cheaper than a BX 25. Happy digging!!!

 

[dave1949]

Thanks, Dave. I will have to get some good pictures tomorrow. It looks like the moon in some places!

I should have mentioned that storage/price is an issue, so I think the L series is out unfortunately.

Those pesky details are usually an issue but not a game stopper. BX's are tough machines, I don't really know enough to compare the B30 to a BX for backhoe work.

The moonscape can be deceiving. It could be not just a layer of rocks that you can see on the surface, there may be more rocks below. About all you can do is try to pick a level that all the protruding rocks fall below by enough that they don't stick up too much. Add some fill dirt here and there if needed.

Also, since you have BIG rocks around that you know of, it's hard to know if the top of a rock you see at the surface is a one footer or a three-four footer.

A hand tool I have found very useful with rocks is a 6' long heavy hex bar. They weigh ~20 pounds, have a chisel shape at one end and a round point at the other. You can pry and scoot good sized rocks with that leverage. It's a great back and finger saver. You should be able to find one at Home Depot or the like.

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[drivadesl]

I'm in agreement with Halftrack that you will be better served with a full size TLB with a thumb. Pulling rocks out the ground requires weight to keep the machine anchored so your not pulling yourself all around the yard. If it was me I would rent to get started and move the larger rocks. Get a couple of helpers as well. Sounds like a fun project. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Gary Fowler]

Removing rocks is a long term project. I would look to buy a used 580 commercial grade backhoe and then sell it if you no longer need it.
The reason I say buy is from personal experience. I recently started removing the small rocks (mostly less than 100 pounds) from a garden spot that is 40 x 100 and I worked on it for 3 weeks (half day at a time due to the heat) It takes much longer that anticipated as they just keep appearing.

You can find older 580 Case machines everywhere, they are a popular brand for construction sites. My house building contractor bought one in fairly good shape, not oil leaks and strong engine but a little loose in the hoe for $8000 here in Arkansas. Around here you can find lots of them for sale, some with a nice cab for $12K. They are easily resalable also. But if budget allows, just keep it because you are going to find more rocks later, guaranteed.

A hydraulic thumb is almost a requirement for lifting and placing rocks of various sizes and that may be hard to find in a commercial grade machine.
I love my B26 that I bought used slightly,68hours, for $20.5K with hydraulic thumb but it wont lift rocks larger than about 250#, not due to lift capacity, but due to size as it just cant get a grip on them. A 580 would handle some pretty big rocks. A manual thumb might work but be prepared to dismount a lot to adjust to various sizes of rocks. With the hydraulic thumb, I can pick up rocks as small as a baseball up to about 18" without leaving my seat.

 

[mikema0477]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm probably not going to be able to swing buying a full size TLB...will take some convincing of the wife on my part plus I will still need something to do the smaller jobs I referred to as well.

Here is picture of the worst part which is reflective of most of the property. From what I am hearing it sounds like I should rent (or hire a guy) a good sized machine to move the bigger rocks. When I say "big" I'm referring to rocks the size of the one in the left of the picture. I probably need to move about ten of those total no more than fifty feet. It's the medium and small size ones that I am going to try and do myself.

Do you think I could move those with a B-series? I'm not really in a rush.

 

[Roadbuilder6]

With a property like that, I wouldn't even look at buying a tractor. I would get a Compact Track Loader or a Multi terrain loader. I have been doing rock work for a couple years, and I have been using a Mini Excavator tractor combo for a while. Both work great, but I would never just want the tractor. I have done that and It isn't fun, and with a bx25 it REALLY wouldn't be fun. I had a Jd 2320 with a 46 backhoe. It was an Amazing tractor, but the backhoe couldn't pull stumps out bigger the 4in. I know how to run the backhoe and how to baby it, its just didn't have the power. If I were you, I would buy a multi terrain loader like a Cat 247, and get a bucket, pallet forks and a rock grapple. With that combo you will be very happy. And when you need to dig, rent a mini excavator. Thanks, John

 

[roadhunter]

Interesting. the BX is a toy and not going to be useful for what you are wanting to do IMO. Looking at the pics it appears you are missing a lot of topsoil. I noticed the roots seem to be exposed and it appears you are missing about a foot of soil from that area. Is that a shoreline by chance? IF so you will want to leave the rocks there to prevent erosion, basically natural rip rap.

I'd try renting a couple of different pieces of equipment to see what works best for you but I dont' think you are going to find a small inexpensive machine to move large rocks like that. To me an excavator with a thumb would be best for that application. Rent a dump trailer as well and you could move a lot of rock.

 

[dave1949]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm probably not going to be able to swing buying a full size TLB...will take some convincing of the wife on my part plus I will still need something to do the smaller jobs I referred to as well.

Here is picture of the worst part which is reflective of most of the property. From what I am hearing it sounds like I should rent (or hire a guy) a good sized machine to move the bigger rocks. When I say "big" I'm referring to rocks the size of the one in the left of the picture. I probably need to move about ten of those total no more than fifty feet. It's the medium and small size ones that I am going to try and do myself. View attachment 391493

Do you think I could move those with a B-series? I'm not really in a rush.

Are you saying that most of the non-lawn one acre is like that?

Sometimes you can usefully read some land history. For example, on the other side of the rock wall through the trees in your pic looks like cleared ground with grass growing. If there is a rock wall it means someone in the past picked and cleared rocks to make a small field/pasture. If the part in your pic was left undone, it's probably because it was too rocky to pay doing the work. That may still be the case.

The trees don't look to be thriving all that well. If there are no old stumps from larger trees, I'll bet the rock runs thick and deep and/or the ledge is not far down.

With my 40 hp NH & backhoe attachment I could handle most of those rocks, all of them if there isn't more rock buried than sticking up. A tractor can push a much larger rock, once you get it up on the surface, than a typical tractor backhoe attachment can lift. But if you take off the top layer and it's just more of the same below that, you haven't accomplished much. Maybe you could get some re-bar or other steel rod, sharpen a point on one end with a grinder and try driving it between rocks here and there. See what you hit.

HDX Fence Post Driver-901147HD at The Home Depot

What are you trying to accomplish, what is the goal for this land?

 

[newbury]

If you REALLY want to "do it yourself" with a "TLB" and have the tractor for other normal tractor things (snow moving, plowing, discing, running a chipper, box blade work, etc. etc.) you need a tractor with a backhoe WITH A HYDRAULIC THUMB.

You haven't mentioned $$ but the thread title was close to the tractor size. You need a utility tractor and that's normally classed around 50HP, like my M4700. If your going to move one stone 3' x 3' x 3' your looking at almost 2 tons. A 1 cubic foot stone is about 150 to 200 lbs.

You might squeak by with a B26TLB but a L39 would be better. I believe the "designed as TLB" tractor are heavier built than adding on a backhoe to a lighter built tractor.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Contrary to what a prior poster said, a BX is NOT a toy. And there are plenty of people on TBN using them to handle a lot of project that their size would make you think they couldn't do. The BX is NOT toy. That's not opinion; it's fact.

Having said that, I don't think a BX is the right tool for that job. I don't have any rocks on my place, but the portion of the rock you can see may be just the tip of the iceberg. For getting out the rest of the iceberg, you'll need a much larger machine.

But if you want to hire a machine to work on the big ones and use a BX or, even better, a B series machine to work on the smaller ones, I think you'd have plenty to do on weekends for a long time and could eventually make some headway.

 

[Gary Fowler]

The problem with rocks is that you cant tell how big they are from how much is sticking out of the ground, at least where I am that is the case.
I had a pine tree that was setting on top of a rock which I tapped gently with my Utility 70 HP tractor and knocked it down. The exposed rock looked to be about a foot in length. I thought I would dig out that rock with my B26 TLB but after digging for an hour or so and uncovering about 7-8 foot of solid rock with hundreds of babies nestled all around it, I gathered up the babies which I used for a creek crossing bridge and backfilled the hole. I never found the ends or bottom of that huge boulder. Even a 40 ton excavator wouldn't have picked that one up but it sure would have dug out all the babies a lot easier.
Your rocks may just be sitting on top of the ground, but as mentioned by others, what is underneath may also need to be addressed. You cant grow grass on solid rock, so if you have bedrock under all those small to large sized rocks, removing the top growth wont help a lot other than you will have a lot of rocks to do something with.

 

[mikema0477]

Wow this is great info everybody. Thanks!

You all are pretty perceptive. Dave you are correct in that on the other side of that is my neighbors yard.

I will do my best to describe what is in the picture. It is almost like a swale in that it takes runoff from the yard and holds it in that little depression. I need to go out and measure the slope, but it is pretty noticeable. On the other side of that depression is a little mound and then on the other side is another swale-like depression. So there has been indde


1. Cut down most of the trees that you see in the picture. There are a couple of maples outside of the picture that I want to keep but for the most part they all need to go.
2. Start forming a retaining wall that begins from the "mound" I mentioned above and runs as a semi-circle up to the lawn area. This would be done by first moving those gigantic rocks that are not buried into the right place, and then digging some of the rocks that are smaller (not necessarily "small") from the area and using those to form the retaining wall. Moving those big rocks was something I was going to leave to somebody else with the larger machines.
3. Once wall is formed, fill in that depression with dirt...it's going to be a lot of dirt. Again probably worth somebody else coming a doing it, but it will cover up about 95% of the other rocks.
4. That will become lawn with a couple of trees planted.

The other areas are not really as bad. There are a lot of surface rocks, but they are smaller. There are several downed trees that are pretty large. But to Dave's point I have some extremely tall elm and sycamore trees there that are really healthy. That area will pretty much be left natural after I get rid of all the vines and invasive plants.


John, I never really thought about a skid steer. Would ground clearance be an issue with that? I wouldn't want to high center it going over some of those rocks.

Maybe the best thing to do is rent a couple of pieces of equipment over the course of a few weekends and see what works and what doesn't.

 

[TomSeller]

One of my favorite ways to get rid of rocks is to dig a hole near them and push them into the hole. Of course if all the soil is rocky, that might be harder to do than say.

 

[dave1949]

I think that's a great plan, rent a few different machines and see what's what.

 

[Roadbuilder6]

I agree with your plan to rent and see what works for you. A If you buy a tracked skid steer, you will not have a problem getting hung up. With a wheeled one you might. I think a CTL or a MTL are the perfect machine for your jobs. And when you are done, either sell it or keep it to plow...

 

[drivadesl]

I am working on a similar project and am considering getting a rock bucket to help separate the rock from dirt. These can be outfitted with a grapple as well.

Construction Attachments Skeleton Rock Bucket