Advice on a new computer

[Coyote machine]

You guys just aren't getting it!:shocked: It's not about how many buttons; it's about the size of the buttons!:laughing::thumbsup:

 

[Gator6x4]

Reading through this took me back years down the memory trail. Many years ago a engineering friend gave me a copy of R:Base, this was back in the day when D:Base III was popular. I tried R:Base and liked it, those with D:Base thought it was alien based software. So it basically all comes down to what the user likes and is comfortable with when it comes to computers and software. Then along came FoxPro and the learning curve started again. We get comfortable with a Operating System or Software and they are changed. The older we get, the harder it is to forget old habits and adopt new ones.

I guess that is why/how the saying, "You Can't Teach An Old Dog New Trick's" originated. :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Oaktree]

And yes, since this is a forum, I feel the need to submit an opinion even if it irritates Apple fanboys. And since when is axe grinding a bad thing? How else is one to slice thru all the BS? Here's the deal - all computers are different. Stop globalizing about which type is better than another. Whether you think PC's are crap or you think they are great, you are right. Same for Apple.

And that is about the gist of it. Whether it's PC vs Mac, GM vs Toyota, Republicans vs Democrats or green tractors vs orange it mostly boils down to personal preferences. Yeah, there are some brands where the fanboys are more rabid than others but in any of the above categories there really isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two.

As far as Linux goes, IMHO you need some pretty good geek credentials to want to go that route...it's not very user-friendly and any on-line "help" forums are pretty condescending toward anything they consider a "dumb" question. Solid once you get it working, but you have to fiddle with it to get it to that point.

Even though I'm pretty much a PC guy (and have never had any problems with crashes, viruses and all the other stuff the haters bash Windows for), I've gotta say MS blew it with Win8. I totally get what they were trying to do...have one interface across platforms but clearly they miscalculated. Kind of like the new Coke...market research said one thing, customer response something very opposite.

 

[PapaPerk]

I am a recently retired engineer from Intel where my last projects were Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge mobile. None of my fellow engineers would ever, ever, inquirer about which computer to use on a tractor forum nor any other forum period. Engineers, by their very nature, have a natural curiosity about how things are designed, constructed and the thought processes that went into them. You can be anything you want on the Internet but in my book, you sure don't sound like one. The last thing an engineer wants is the easy way out, not having to think about what he is doing. Moreover, I would think that most engineers would prefer more than one button on a mouse since they are not easily confused by two or more. Ask yourself: Why did Steve Jobs insist on putting only one button on his mouse?

I've actually gotten some great input from this thread excluding your comments.

Engineers must continually learn and change with technology. U must have forgotten this.

You seem like an angry person. I'm taking your comments with a grain of salt.

 

[PapaPerk]

That hasn't been the case for over a decade. Their current mouse has multiple button points as well as touch gestures. Of course, being an engineer I just plug in a standard unix three button mouse into my Macs. While we're on the subject of engineers, I should note that about 85% of the desktop computers used for aerospace R&D in my group are Macs, the other 15% Linux. Supercomputers are all Linux based. You'd get left behind trying to use a Windows box in this environment, regardless of how many buttons are on your mouse.

Great comments. (0: Thank you. Glad ur engineer training is paying off for mouse selection! Lol

 

[PapaPerk]

You mentioned spreadsheets in your original post. Microsoft sells MS Office for both Mac and Windows, but being Microsoft, they left one trap for the unwary Mac user in it. If you create a spreadsheet on a Windows machine and then open it on a Mac all of the dates will be different by 3 years and 364 days. Same if you create it on a Mac and open it on a Windows box. (Maybe it is 4 years and 1day?) The reason for this is that dates are stored as a number of days from some reference date. In Windows this is Jan 1,1900. Macs use Jan 1, 1904. Why did Apple choose such a weird date? Well, you have to go way back to the dawn of the personal computer age. Memory was scarce, and cpu cycles were slow. Due to the rules of the Gregorian calendar we use, 1900 was not a leap year, but 2000 was. The calculation that transforms the number of days into a date which is displayed is much easier if every fourth year the spreadsheet is going to encounter is a leap year. So Apple opted to start in 1904. Microsoft in started in 1900, and the calculation is slower on a Windows machine. In newer versions of Excel, there is a preference, at least on my Mac for which date system to use. If I get a spreadsheet created on a Windows machine I have to change this preference to use the 1904 date system, so anything I add has the right dates. * * * * * * Of course complex formatting is always iffy when going from Windows to Mac, or vice versa. This is about the only big incompatibility I have found going from one OS to the other, and I place the problem squarely with Microsoft. Memory is cheap and plentiful in computers these days, and cpus are much, much faster. Excel should be able to keep track of which machine created each cell of a spreadsheet and display dates correctly on either OS. * * * * * * * I like my Mac very much, I can use Windows, but hate every second.

Thank you for the feedback!

 

[/pine]

Linux users don't need to learn or tinker with the CLI (dos-like 'terminal) if they're happy with a totally Windows-like user experience. (Native Win apps run in 'Wine' therein if you like EXCEL). I suggest anyone Linux-curious dig out an obsolete (or unused) Win machine and run a 'live CD' session. (Download .ISO and 'burn' (not copy) to DVD, boot from it). I like LXLE for laptops, and use Linux Mint 17 on my power desktop more often than I boot it to XP.

Your old OS won't know it's running on another, borrowing RAM and some HD space for temp cache. (It will run more slowly than a full install, working from the DVD vs the HD.) Many versions have the option to install Linux in a dual-boot configuration from the live session. You'd want to read up on setting up a boot-loader if so, and may want to use a disk partitioning utility prior to installing. Instructions for these are easy to follow and come with the "are you sures" for the tricky bits.

When turning on the computer you would select Win or LINUX from a menu and go from there. I typed a post or two yesterday on another box running an OS that can be run entirely in ram and booted/backed-up to a pen drive ... on a computer with 500MB of RAM & no hard drive. (Firefox is Firefox & works the same on my XP, Vista, Win 2k, and Linux machines.)

What /pine says about 'any old' computer is because open source software has such humble hardware requirements. (Choose a 'non PAE' distro for those 486s, ok? ...)

You are 100% correct about the GUIs available with Linux O/Ss... (Gnome and KDE are the most common)...
I only commented about learning a CLI because when you learn it you also learn a lot more...

As for distributions they are constantly evolving...many for specific applications/user preferences etc...

One in particular I like is 'PCLinux'...it comes with a pre-installed package that will build an .ISO of the entire O/S after a user has customized it to their liking...i.e., install the distro and customize a browser, e-mail client etc. etc...then run the application and burn the ISO file to a disk or USB drive etc...It will have a "live cd" bootstrap that lets the user boot their personally customized O/S on any capable box, laptop etc...makes for a great backup/emergency boot disk...

 

[MossRoad]

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing a new computer to edit gopro videos, working on spreadsheets, etc.

What do you recommend? I get so irritated with Windows updates, etc. seems like something always needs done to keep windows machines running!!!

So I was considering a Mac. But unsure about using it for Excel, etc.

Thank you for any advice. I love my iPhone and iPad... They just work! And I want something that just works for a laptop!

If you are used to a PC, and you already own a lot of PC software, go to some place like Tigerdirect and get a factory refurbished PC that runs Windows7 Pro. They can be had for a few hundred dollars, use Windows7 which is very sturdy, can edit gopro movies no problem and you can install Open Office, which is free, and do Excel compatible spreadsheets. Most older Windows programs will run on Windows 7. You can even make a virtual machine of an old PC and run it on 7.
:thumbsup:

Stay away from Surface tablets. Yes, they are a full blown PC in a little tiny notebook. However, they run Win8, which, unless you have someone to show you, you will not figure out easily and will quickly remember every foul word you ever forgot. Plus you'll have to buy a bigger monitor, keyboard, mouse, dock, etc... and you're looking at a thousand dollars (minimum). I, despite the ample warnings, you do get something with Windows8, I recommend getting software that makes 8 look like 7. Its out there and free, or cheap. 8's interface just plain stinks.
:thumbdown:

You said you like your iPad and iPhone. Then you will be familiar with iWhaterver :laughing:. However, be prepared to cough up big $$ for Microsoft Excel if you don't already own it because new Mac OS won't run free Open Office. Also be prepared to replace all your old software, as Apple is notorious for not being backward compatible, and they have some bugs in their OS. Also, despite what people say about reliability, their hardware fails just as often as PC hardware. And their wireless keyboards/mice eat batteries and are not ergonomic for professional typists. Overall, however, they are slick machines.
:thumbsup:

Linux.... its free (if you don't value your time). Unless you know it, or know someone that's willing to show you, stay away from it. I love linux. I was raised on Unix. Its a thinking man's operating system. Its robust. Its elegant. Its beautiful. Its not for the average Joe without support.
:thumbsup::thumbdown:

Hope that helps.

 

[s219]

You said you like your iPad and iPhone. Then you will be familiar with iWhaterver :laughing:. However, be prepared to cough up big $$ for Microsoft Excel if you don't already own it because new Mac OS won't run free Open Office.

We use Open Office on one of our laboratory Macs at work, and I haven't heard of issues -- is this something new?

I bought a home version "family pack" of MS Office for $115 and have it on all three of our Macs at home. Has Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and a few other utility apps. No difference from the more expensive MS Office I have at work except for the licensing/support.

 

[PapaPerk]

We use Open Office on one of our laboratory Macs at work, and I haven't heard of issues -- is this something new? I bought a home version "family pack" of MS Office for $115 and have it on all three of our Macs at home. Has Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and a few other utility apps. No difference from the more expensive MS Office I have at work except for the licensing/support.

We get Office for something like $10 through work. I'm assuming I could load onto a Mac.

Is there software that a Mac can run so that it will run PC software?

 

[troutsqueezer]

You seem like an angry person. I'm taking your comments with a grain of salt.

Bravo! My original point in posting to your thread was to take ALL responses with a grain of salt. You're on the right track.

And keep in mind, you can't tell what frame of mind a person has simply by reading text as evidenced by your reply. It's another one of the shortcomings of forum participation.

Any question of a poster's general demeanor can be ascertained simply by reading a sample of their prior posts.

 

[MossRoad]

We use Open Office on one of our laboratory Macs at work, and I haven't heard of issues -- is this something new?

I bought a home version "family pack" of MS Office for $115 and have it on all three of our Macs at home. Has Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and a few other utility apps. No difference from the more expensive MS Office I have at work except for the licensing/support.

I heard there were some issues with the latest Mac OS, Yosemite and Open Office. Apparently there is a work around regarding unsigned apps and privacy settings. So, it appears it does work with some finagling (thought Macs were supposed to be easy (not so for nubees)).

 

[aczlan]

We get Office for something like $10 through work. I'm assuming I could load onto a Mac.
Is there software that a Mac can run so that it will run PC software?

Two ways to do it are MS Office for Mac and Virtualization (via software such as VMWare, Paralells or WINE).

Aaron Z

 

[/pine]

Linux.... its free (if you don't value your time). Unless you know it, or know someone that's willing to show you, stay away from it. I love linux. I was raised on Unix. Its a thinking man's operating system. Its robust. Its elegant. Its beautiful. Its not for the average Joe without support.

Just curious when the last time you looked at one of the newer distributions or booted to a "live cd" ??

Anyone can download the .ISO files and burn to a disk or put on a thumb drive but they are usually large files and not all burning software will burn an ISO...so for just a few dollars most distributions are available on a CD/DVD and on a USB thumb drive for a a few more $'s...this cost is not for the software...it is to cover the media and shipping etc...

Many of the latest distributions are as easy (or easier) to get up and running than a Windows system out of the box...with very intuitive interfaces for anyone that has run Windows...

Take a look at DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing.
...most have screenshots of their interfaces etc...

The advantage of a "live CD/DVD is that you can try out the complete operating system without "installing" anything....just put the disk in a computer and boot to the disk...

One advantage of having just about any of the available "live CDs" on hand is in the event of a corrupted Windows system that will not boot up...just boot to a live cd , mount the HDD and recover your data to a USB drive...

 

[the old grind]

This! ^^^ :thumbsup:

 

[xtn]

I a lot biased. I've been using Apple computers since 1977 and the Apple II system. I've stuck with Apple through all the years they called it a TOY, said it would NEVER LAST, said no one would buy it, said you can't do business with it.
I've been running my business 100% on Apple products since the early 80's.
The greatest compliment I ever got was when I did a proposal on my Apple computer and printed it on a new fangled laser printer ( cost 5K ) and the customer DUMPED ME saying they would rather work with a SMALLER COMPANY. I never did answer that client and tell then there were ONLY TWO people in my company at the time.
I used to rent business products 99% windows products, and had nothing but problems, and all my customers had nothing but problems with them. I tried like heck to use a windows machine SEVERAL TIMES, and I'm 5 times more productive on a Mac, than on any windows machine.

My ONLY REGRET with Apple. I sold 1000 shares of their stock at $24.00 a share, and it went to $650.00 a share. I've been spending that 650K in my mind ever since.

I use Excel, Word, All Adobe products, several video editing products, and a complex 3D cad software for animation, and my current Mac Pro has exceeded my expectations.

Here's one I did for a customer - and they selected me BECAUSE of doing this work, that my competition can't or won't do. This was drawn in a 3d CAD program, then saved to a movie and edited on a Mac i-movie. Everything in the drawing was done to scale and drawn by hand. You can imagine the computer power needed to render this.

You might be more productive on a Mac. But that's you. It isn't the Mac.

The idea that Macs are better for design was valid twenty years ago, but is currently nothing more than a reputation that clings on despite the truth. One's skill and software choice determines one's output capabilities, not one's operating system. While Adobe software was originally developed for Mac, its Windows versions have been exactly the same for many years now. With CAD packages, there are a lot more available for Windows. If you know how to turn out professional looking design and typesetting in a proposal it's because you know what you're doing, not because of your operating system choice.

I use the same things you use and more, and my PC exceeds my expectations. No virus or crash in four years of continuous running and connected to the internet. Architectural walk-through renderings - with textures and shading (no wire frame either) - are running me about twelve minutes for every minute of uncompressed video at 720p/15fps. And I can work in another program while I wait.

I'm not arguing against Macs at all. I'm just pointing out that your bias is ONLY justified by your comfort level in the OS, not by its capabilities.

 

[xtn]

Stay away from Surface tablets. Yes, they are a full blown PC in a little tiny notebook. However, they run Win8, which, unless you have someone to show you, you will not figure out easily and will quickly remember every foul word you ever forgot.

Yeah, you've got to figure out how to boot right to the old desktop instead of the Metro user interface. But it's easy, and after you do it you will no longer be confused. Well, except when you want the old Start Menu and you get the Metro UI again instead. But if you just remember that it's a big stupid start menu, you'll be fine and Windows 8.x will be fine. Oh and you'll have to learn to go to the stupid Charms icons if you want to access Control Panel. But otherwise, it's fine. Stupid, stupid Charms. I hate you, Charms. No, no, you're fine. I HATE YOU!

 

[andrec999]

Exactly, I buy a new one every 4 or 5 years and get the newer updates, and in the last 20 yrs, it has been cheaper than buying a Mac.at 1800.$

I'm using a $199 Acer Laptop for the past 4 years with win7

I was going to buy a Mac and the one I wanted with employee discount and all the bells and whistles was still going to be $1600 and change... just didn't want to risk something happening traveling...

 

[PapaPerk]

Exactly, I buy a new one every 4 or 5 years and get the newer updates, and in the last 20 yrs, it has been cheaper than buying a Mac.at 1800.$

That's an excellent point right there!

 

[MossRoad]

Just curious when the last time you looked at one of the newer distributions or booted to a "live cd" ??

Anyone can download the .ISO files and burn to a disk or put on a thumb drive but they are usually large files and not all burning software will burn an ISO...so for just a few dollars most distributions are available on a CD/DVD and on a USB thumb drive for a a few more $'s...this cost is not for the software...it is to cover the media and shipping etc...

Many of the latest distributions are as easy (or easier) to get up and running than a Windows system out of the box...with very intuitive interfaces for anyone that has run Windows...

Take a look at DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing.
...most have screenshots of their interfaces etc...

The advantage of a "live CD/DVD is that you can try out the complete operating system without "installing" anything....just put the disk in a computer and boot to the disk...

One advantage of having just about any of the available "live CDs" on hand is in the event of a corrupted Windows system that will not boot up...just boot to a live cd , mount the HDD and recover your data to a USB drive...

Your post illustrates perfectly why someone with little to no experience with computers, and especially Linux, will have no idea what you just said.