Generator install - where to start

[ning]

I'm still a long way from buying anything, but for now, I'm thinking that a 22kw unit is what I want. But I have to get the natural gas installed and a meter installed. A residential meter is for a one-inch line. Can I run a 22kw generator from a one in natural gas line?

A 22k is about 320k BTU... my recollection is that the "length of pipe in feet" is from the regulator, and you have to consider what other requirements for gas are on that pipe if any.

For instance a few years ago I put in a tankless water heater (199K BTU) to replace a previous 80K BTU tank water heater. There's a few feet of pipe that are only for the water heater, then it connects to a bigger pipe that also carries gas to a 80K furnace, and that length of pipe goes for N feet to a bigger pipe that then goes back to the regulator. I had to do calcs on the entire system to ensure that there was enough pipe to handle the new water heater's flow needs.

If you have a pipe that will only be connected to the generator (now and forever) all the way to the regulator, the above chart should do (though connectors add "length" as well). IMO always size up from today's requirements, dig once.

Note that all the above are assuming the post-regulator pressures are usable without per-appliances regulators themselves (7" / 0.25psi). You may be able to have a higher pressure regulator at the meter (eg 2psi) and drop it down with another regulator at point-of-use or upstream of multiple points of use, in which case the calcs are very different (1" pipe carries much more gas at 2psi than at 0.25psi).

 

[WinterDeere]

I started making appointments with Generac contractors today, first visit is Monday. I'm also reaching out to some local Kohler contractors. I appreciate the folks who suggested going with a commercial unit, but I'm not seeing the benefit, for my own situation. I think this unit will age out and require replacement due to weathering and corrosion, long before brushes vs. brushless, or any other distinction separating commercial from residential quality, ever become relevant. Our usage is just not that frequent or long.

I'm figuring an installed cost under $20k for generator + switch + battery + labor, but I'd be fine with anything up to $25k. I'll be choosing the installer based on my confidence with their capability and ease of working with them first, and price second.

 

[ning]

I started making appointments with Generac contractors today, first visit is Monday. I'm also reaching out to some local Kohler contractors. I appreciate the folks who suggested going with a commercial unit, but I'm not seeing the benefit, for my own situation. I think this unit will age out and require replacement due to weathering and corrosion, long before brushes vs. brushless, or any other distinction separating commercial from residential quality, ever become relevant. Our usage is just not that frequent or long.

I'm figuring an installed cost under $20k for generator + switch + battery + labor, but I'd be fine with anything up to $25k. I'll be choosing the installer based on my confidence with their capability and ease of working with them first, and price second.

(yeah i just noticed hte typo, sue me)

 

[grsthegreat]

I'm still a long way from buying anything, but for now, I'm thinking that a 22kw unit is what I want. But I have to get the natural gas installed and a meter installed. A residential meter is for a one-inch line. Can I run a 22kw generator from a one in natural gas line?

You can look on generac site or talk with gas installer. There are lots of distance charts.

Also, is the 1inch the primary line or after the regulator.

 

[Duds13]

I started making appointments with Generac contractors today, first visit is Monday. I'm also reaching out to some local Kohler contractors. I appreciate the folks who suggested going with a commercial unit, but I'm not seeing the benefit, for my own situation. I think this unit will age out and require replacement due to weathering and corrosion, long before brushes vs. brushless, or any other distinction separating commercial from residential quality, ever become relevant. Our usage is just not that frequent or long.

I'm figuring an installed cost under $20k for generator + switch + battery + labor, but I'd be fine with anything up to $25k. I'll be choosing the installer based on my confidence with their capability and ease of working with them first, and price second.

I got a 22kw Generac installed in 2020 for about $8k. My situation was much different from yours I believe though, was a pretty simple hookup to the propane tank. You'll get a wide variety of pricing as I'm sure you already know. A few companies I had quote the job were more expensive for a 16kw Generac and were just going to set it on some stone. The company I went with set it on the Generac pad which just looks better in my opinion. Good luck and keep us posted on the quotes!

 

[WinterDeere]

I've found some contractors also don't base their pricing on anything more than what they think they can get out of you. I've received grossly different prices for the exact same work between my two houses, simply because one has has a value over $1M and the other is $300k.

Getting a few quotes always helps to weed those guys out on jobs where you don't already have a good baseline on what it should cost.

 

[ponytug]

Get a quote at the $300k house, and then ask for a change of site?

We get that a lot around here, and it remains annoying to me, even if I understand the economic greed that drives it.

Good luck!

All the best, Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

When i was very busy, id raise my rates. Mainly i didnt need the job. But if they really had to have it now, it would cost them.

Thats business.

Still happens. I had 3 bids for some new chain link fences. Two at slightly high prices, one nearly double the rest. Anyone can bid what they want. No one has to accept it.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I'm still a long way from buying anything, but for now, I'm thinking that a 22kw unit is what I want. But I have to get the natural gas installed and a meter installed. A residential meter is for a one-inch line. Can I run a 22kw generator from a one in natural gas line?

I contacted a local plumber friend to tell me what size pipe I needed. I had to run about 800' of pipe to my generator. I can't remember if its 22 or 24kw. I think it's 24. The only other thing I would ever use the gas for is a stove in my shop/kitchen.

We ended up with a 1" pipe for the 800'

 

[grsthegreat]

I contacted a local plumber friend to tell me what size pipe I needed. I had to run about 800' of pipe to my generator. I can't remember if its 22 or 24kw. I think it's 24. The only other thing I would ever use the gas for is a stove in my shop/kitchen.

We ended up with a 1" pipe for the 800'

You must be propane

 

[Complete Turf Care]

You must be propane

Natural gas. If I went with propane, I would have put a tank within a few feet of the generator.

 

[WinterDeere]

When i was very busy, id raise my rates. Mainly i didnt need the job. But if they really had to have it now, it would cost them.

I've been in a "too busy" mode the last 3-4 months, working 7 days per week, and very long days at that. I've debated raising prices to manage, but my trouble is that the "quote to contract time" on my work is usually 3 - 11 months. I have no idea how busy I'll be when the customer finally comes back and bites on a job I originally quoted last June.

All quotes have 30 day expirations, so there's always the chance to re-quote. But the customer builds my price into their project budget, and my price is usually one of the largest parts of their budget, so changing the numbers on them can blow the whole project out of the water.

I had that happen just this week, when my customer came back with an order, but under different conditions than originally quoted. They made some bad assumptions, totally their fault not mine, but holding their feet to the fire and trying to maintain my usual profit margin under the new conditions, would have probably caused their customer to pull the contract. So, we compromise, and each take a bit of a hit on the job, to keep our good names in the business, and the relationship going for other future jobs.

 

[thclimer]

Its the relationship between a contractor and a larger company that accounting groups could never understand why you compromise on some projects. Accounting groups always want to see black and white, only considering what costs are today, not the service that a reliable contractor can provide at 2:00am when "sh*t has hit the fan" and you need someone who is familiar with the project/equipment that is willing to help you out.

At one time I worked for a large company, at a very rural location, their central accounting group always wanted to bring in "outside" contractors to bid jobs. These contractors would be about a days drive away and would have no interest in providing timely help in an emergency.

I've been in a "too busy" mode the last 3-4 months, working 7 days per week, and very long days at that. I've debated raising prices to manage, but my trouble is that the "quote to contract time" on my work is usually 3 - 11 months. I have no idea how busy I'll be when the customer finally comes back and bites on a job I originally quoted last June.

All quotes have 30 day expirations, so there's always the chance to re-quote. But the customer builds my price into their project budget, and my price is usually one of the largest parts of their budget, so changing the numbers on them can blow the whole project out of the water.

I had that happen just this week, when my customer came back with an order, but under different conditions than originally quoted. They made some bad assumptions, totally their fault not mine, but holding their feet to the fire and trying to maintain my usual profit margin under the new conditions, would have probably caused their customer to pull the contract. So, we compromise, and each take a bit of a hit on the job, to keep our good names in the business, and the relationship going for other future jobs.

 

[WinterDeere]

Its the relationship between a contractor and a larger company that accounting groups could never understand why you compromise on some projects. Accounting groups always want to see black and white, only considering what costs are today...

Exactly. I started this business in 2022, and certainly made a lot of sacrifices on making money to establish good long-term relationships. I still do, as noted above.

I received all sorts of advice from short-sighted guys in the business, "you should never not be making money," when I'd mention that I was doing one project or another at cost or even an occasional loss. But that sacrifice is paying off now, I have made more in the last two months alone, than any of those guys do in a full year.

If you're in the business of repeat customers, you'd better take good care of them, so that they can afford to take care of you.

 

[grsthegreat]

Natural gas. If I went with propane, I would have put a tank within a few feet of the generator.

Really… 1 inch is way to small for an 800 foot run, unless it was higher pressure with an additional regulator at the generator.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Really… 1 inch is way to small for an 800 foot run, unless it was higher pressure with an additional regulator at the generator.

I'm not sure what the pressure is on my side of the meter. And I do have a regulator at the generator.

 

[WinterDeere]

I'm not sure what the pressure is on my side of the meter. And I do have a regulator at the generator.

You're definitely going to need to get that info, before making any decision on piping size vs. run length. Gas is so highly-compressible, that pressure has a huge sway on required line size vs. run, for delivering a given total unpressurized volume.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

You're definitely going to need to get that info, before making any decision on piping size vs. run length. Gas is so highly-compressible, that pressure has a huge sway on required line size vs. run, for delivering a given total unpressurized volume.

I agree. Mine has been installed since 03.01.2023 and has a total of 21 hours of run time. It works fine so far. We did change the regulator at the generator a few weeks ago, because it was leaking.

 

[grsthegreat]

If you have a regulator at the generator on a natural gas system, than they ran a high pressure line (probably 2 pound) to the generator instead of the standard 1/4# or so that is found after the generator.

 

[EddieWalker]

Back to the size of the pipe and distance question. From where my meter will be installed on my garage, the distance to where I want the manifold in my Utility Room is 100 feet plus the distance up to the attic and down from the attic. Then from the manifold to where I want the generator to be is another 30 feet.

I'm afraid that the distance with a 1-inch line is so long that it will limit the size of the generator that I can run off of Natural Gas. I also plan on using the Natural gas for cooking and heating water but haven't bought either of those things yet.

I have two questions. What size generator should I be looking at? I don't need 200 amps to get through a power outage, but I do want to be able to cool the house in Summer. AC has a 60 amp breaker for the outside unit, and I think the inside is just 20 amps. Fridge and freezers are the next big concern. I should be able to do fine on 100 amps, and even that is probably more then I'll use, but I think it's what I really want as a minimum.

The distance from the Natural gas meter to where my main breaker is 100 feet plus the distance up the wall and down the wall. Should I rethink the location of the generator? If I install it right next to the gas meter, the distance could be as little as five feet. Can I run two gas lines from the meter? One to the generator and one for the water heater and stove on the other side of the house, 100 feet away? Does that allow me to have a bigger generator? Is it worth the cost of the wire to put the generator that far away?