Log splitters

[arrow]

Same size tank but rated st 16 tons. Never believed the Champion rating at 27 tons.

 

[WinterDeere]

Same size tank but rated st 16 tons. Never believed the Champion rating at 27 tons.

It's pretty easy to verify rating, if you know cylinder bore size and system pressure. 27-28 tons would be standard force for a 4.5" cylinder on a 3500 psi system. There is no such thing as "force loss" in a static system, which a log splitter might as well be when the pump kicks down into low gear.

As to ISO weights, I'm surprised anyone is still even running old single-weight oil in any log splitter. Use ATF, and it will really make your cold starts much, much easier. It's been decades since I've seen any log splitter manual that doesn't list ATF as either an acceptable substitution, or even flat-out recommended, for cold weather applications.

 

[big bubba]

didn't realize generic ATF is suitable for splitters. interesting note
since my tank sump is large on the 36t, going ATF would require a complete change, so i'll stay with existing ISO. good point though
not sure how ATF would play out on a new machine warranty?

 

[WinterDeere]

didn't realize generic ATF is suitable for splitters. interesting note
since my tank sump is large on the 36t, going ATF would require a complete change, so i'll stay with existing ISO. good point though
not sure how ATF would play out on a new machine warranty?

Check your manual. Most of the Speeco splitters (also sold as Huskee brand) actually list ATF as either acceptable or even recommended, for cold weather operation.

I used ATF to top off the lightweight hydraulic oil that came in my machine, as the manual suggested, when I was making early modifications to my splitter. But then when it came due for a full fluid change (10 years / 500 hours), I switched it to pure ATF.

If you're running single-weight oil, you need to choose between difficult cold starts (heavier weight) and system seepage from rod seal and SCV piston seal at high operating temperature (lighter weight). In my case, I'm running a big honkin' 20 GPM pump on a tiny little 7 gallon tank, so it runs quite hot, usually around 180F. That's fine for the ATF, it runs at least that hot in any modern transmission, but it does get thin enough to weep just a bit at the cylinder rod seal and SCV piston seal. Not enough to cause any problem, but enough that I do smell the ATF in these locations, and I find just a slight film of oil on the bottom side of the SCV after a long session of splitting. Going to a thicker oil could eliminate that, but would make the machine almost impossible to start when not hot, as 20 GPM pumps don't pull over easily in the cold.

 

[big bubba]

cold starts are never a problem with the 20 yr old Briggs, but will keep ATF in mind

 

[WinterDeere]

cold starts are never a problem with the 20 yr old Briggs, but will keep ATF in mind

This has much more to do with the size of the pump, and the viscosity of the oil you're pulling through it, than the engine. My engine pulls over pretty easy, but connect it to a large pump sucking on honey, and it gets real hard to pull that cord.

At just 11 - 13 GPM, this isn't that big a deal. But once you get into 20 GPM territory, it's more of a problem. I went to an electric start engine when I upgraded my pump past 16 GPM, so I can just plug it into my tractor and turn a key to cold start. Once they hydraulic oil (ATF) is warmed up, then it's easy to re-start by pulling the cord.

 

[John_Mc]

It's pretty easy to verify rating, if you know cylinder bore size and system pressure. 27-28 tons would be standard force for a 4.5" cylinder on a 3500 psi system. There is no such thing as "force loss" in a static system, which a log splitter might as well be when the pump kicks down into low gear.

As to ISO weights, I'm surprised anyone is still even running old single-weight oil in any log splitter. Use ATF, and it will really make your cold starts much, much easier. It's been decades since I've seen any log splitter manual that doesn't list ATF as either an acceptable substitution, or even flat-out recommended, for cold weather applications.

Specs for the Champion Model #100424 27 ton splitter list a 3.9" cylinder. To get 27 tons, this would require running a system pressure of 4520 PSI. The MAX pressure for their system is listed at 4100 PSI. If run at this Max pressure, it should be doing right about 24.5 tons. I've asked the manufacturer for their RECOMMENDED system pressure setting, but have not heard back yet.

Champion also makes another splitter rated at 27 tons (their model #201312). It has a 4.8" cylinder and a slightly larger pump (14 GPM vs 11 GPM). I have an easier time believing that this one actually makes 27 Tons, since it would only need 3000 PSI to get there. The cycle time is slower: 16 sec vs 11 sec for the model 100424.

 

[dodge man]

My Yardmax splitter, a 25 ton I think, gets pretty hot when I split for a while. The fluid gets pretty hot in the tank and at the cylinder.

 

[WinterDeere]

Specs for the Champion Model #100424 27 ton splitter list a 3.9" cylinder. To get 27 tons, this would require running a system pressure of 4520 PSI. The MAX pressure for their system is listed at 4100 PSI. If run at this Max pressure, it should be doing right about 24.5 tons. I've asked the manufacturer for their RECOMMENDED system pressure setting, but have not heard back yet.

Champion also makes another splitter rated at 27 tons (their model #201312). It has a 4.8" cylinder and a slightly larger pump (14 GPM vs 11 GPM). I have an easier time believing that this one actually makes 27 Tons, since it would only need 3000 PSI to get there. The cycle time is slower: 16 sec vs 11 sec for the model 100424.

Agreed. Your math is sound.

Odd hearing of a 3.9 inch cylinder, but I'd guess this is probably a common metric size, 100mm?

But I'll re-iterate my point made earlier, that anything over 22 tons is wasted, for most firewood splitters. If you encounter a round that cannot be split with 22 tons, you should've left that thing in the woods!

Give me 22 tons at 6 seconds, over 27 or 35 tons at 12 seconds, every time!

 

[wolc123]

I was pretty impressed with the strength of my 22 ton, 5 hp Honda, Northern splitter in the retraction mode. The welds on the backing plate were kind of shoddy and cracked after about 10 years. The splits across them eventually widened to about 1/8”.

I tried heating the broken area up with my torches, and pounding the plate back square with a sledge, but wasn’t successful at that. Next, I chained around the back of the plate and around the wedge, fired up the engine, and used the cylinder to completely close the weld split.

I left it running there, and laid down several beads along the split with 1/8” rod. I don’t think I’ll need to ever worry about it breaking again.

Overall, it’s been very dependable the last 20 years. I’ve never changed the hydraulic oil, which was cheap stuff from Tractir Supply, but I do change the oil in the Honda once per year with 15W40 Rotella.

Ive also changed the air filter once or twice in 20 years and I’ve always used ethanol free gas in it. When it starts taking a few extra pulls or running a little rough, I give the carb a squirt or two of carb/choke cleaner while it’s running. That usually straightens it right out.

 

[John_Mc]

This has much more to do with the size of the pump, and the viscosity of the oil you're pulling through it, than the engine. My engine pulls over pretty easy, but connect it to a large pump sucking on honey, and it gets real hard to pull that cord.

At just 11 - 13 GPM, this isn't that big a deal. But once you get into 20 GPM territory, it's more of a problem. I went to an electric start engine when I upgraded my pump past 16 GPM, so I can just plug it into my tractor and turn a key to cold start. Once they hydraulic oil (ATF) is warmed up, then it's easy to re-start by pulling the cord.

I never really thought about how much drag the pump puts on starting. I didn't really think about what it does then the valve is in neutral.

I have no idea what hydraulic fluid is in my AmericanCLS AM-25HH log splitter. The manual says "any quality light hydraulic oil." I bought it used. I probably should change the hydraulic oil one of these days. It has a 16 GPM pump, but I have no trouble at all pulling it over even in below freezing weather.

 

[bearthebruce]

My cylinder gets quite warm after 20 minutes of splitting.

Was wondering if anyone else’s Champ 27t does the same.

Yes, my new 27Ton Champion gets warm. I ran it 5 hours on Saturday. It did not get hot.. but it was warm. I was not concerned.

As to the amount of force... I've nothing to compare it. It had plenty of force to split 24"d by 16" Maple rounds. Easy Peezy.

Would it do Oak that size... I don't know.

 

[arrow]

Yes, my new 27Ton Champion gets warm. I ran it 5 hours on Saturday. It did not get hot.. but it was warm. I was not concerned.

As to the amount of force... I've nothing to compare it. It had plenty of force to split 24"d by 16" Maple rounds. Easy Peezy.

Would it do Oak that size... I don't know.

Hmm?
I’d hafta say mine does get hot to the touch.
Put about 5 gals of fluid in it when new.
Maybe it needs more. Dunno what’s making it run at elevated temps except pressures.
I should shoot it with a temp gun at the cylinder and see what it reads.

 

[triptester]

135 degrees is perfect. This temperature helps reduce moisture. Above 160 many hydrualic fluids start to break down.

 

[WinterDeere]

I never really thought about how much drag the pump puts on starting. I didn't really think about what it does then the valve is in neutral.

Live center valve, so even in "neutral", you're still pushing fluid through the whole system. I really noticed a huge diffefrence in how hard the pull start became with each upgrade in pump size, as I went from 11 - 20 GPM in two or three steps, as I upgraded other ocmponents.

I did upgrade the engine at one point, from 6hp to 11hp, and of course the bigger engine is a slightly larder pull than the small one. But not by more than any one of the pump upgrades.

 

[WinterDeere]

135 degrees is perfect. This temperature helps reduce moisture. Above 160 many hydrualic fluids start to break down.

I've heard this as well, and it might be another good reason to run ATF, I suspect. Every automatic car today seems to be running their ATF above 180F.

 

[triptester]

ATF handles higher temps but other splitter components don't handle the higher temps as well.

 

[WinterDeere]

ATF handles higher temps but other splitter components don't handle the higher temps as well.

I think I'm seeing some of that, here. Running 20 GPM on a 7 gallon tank, my hydraulic fluid (ATF) gets quite warm. No failures so far, but the rod seal on both the main piston and SCV do seep just a bit. Not enough to be troublesome, but you do smell warm ATF after awhile.

I have considered adding a small radiator to help cool the fluid, but just haven't gotten around to arranging it. I'm running out of great places to hide such fragile hardware, I imagine anything hung down low might take a beating when I tow the thing through deep snow, etc.

 

[m7040]

I think I'm seeing some of that, here. Running 20 GPM on a 7 gallon tank, my hydraulic fluid (ATF) gets quite warm. No failures so far, but the rod seal on both the main piston and SCV do seep just a bit. Not enough to be troublesome, but you do smell warm ATF after awhile.

I have considered adding a small radiator to help cool the fluid, but just haven't gotten around to arranging it. I'm running out of great places to hide such fragile hardware, I imagine anything hung down low might take a beating when I tow the thing through deep snow, etc.

My Wolfe Ridge has a I think 20 gallon hydraulic oil tank. The hydraulic oil cooler was an option that I did not select and not needed since I don't use it commercially. Also did not select the light tower since I don't use it after dark anyway

 

[John_Mc]

140˚ is generally accepted as the hottest temperature at which you can safely touch metal objects. At that temperature, your skin should be able to withstand several seconds of contact without damage. (For most non-metallic solid objects, you can touch a bit hotter hotter without serious issues.)

That also happens to be right around the recommended max temperature at which many hydraulic fluids should be run. (They can generally take a little more, but that provides a bit of a buffer, since some parts of the system run hotter than others.)

If parts of my splitter system were running hot enough that I could not touch metal parts for more than a few seconds, I would be shutting down to find the problem.