Another Newbie looking to buy a tractor

[paulsharvey]

On driveway width, 12 ft, With 4 ft of clear "shoulder" on each side will readily accomade any vehicle around (some emergency services require 16 ft clear space), if the driver can drive. Make your turning radius nice and large, avoid sharp turns.

The 4 ft shoulder should slope away from the driving surface if possible. This does multiple things; it gives you a total of 20ft of clear area, enough for two vehicles to slow and pass each other; it keeps roots and veg from encouraging, it allows you to mow the shoulders, it allows a semi to get in, and it gives an area to control water flow.

Culverts, if needed, completely skip 4", 6", and 8". If it needs a culvert, start at 15". Make them Longer than you think. IE, extend 8 ft beyond the road bed on both sides. At the frontage road, large radius are your friend; 25 ft radius, gives you swing room.

For the base, you want to strip the organics, and any pumping clays. Compact, and then place the base material. 6" of good compacted base is better than 12" of dumped poorly done base.

 

[BlueKnife]

I think he could do 800 feet in a summer!

Perhaps. Or he could hire a contractor who could do it in two days.

 

[paulsharvey]

For the DIY vs Hired done comments;
800 LF, clear, strip, compact, and 6" of base is probably gonna run, 4 12 hour days, or about $14,400 labor ( that's pushing the rocks and trees/stumps out of the way, not hauling), 320 tons of base material, or about $4,800 in material. Culverts would be atleast $4,000 more, but could be more. So, I'm rough bidding $30,000. If you are Way out, that would go up another 25%.

DIY, you're still going to want at least a 4 ton roller to proof roll your subgrade, then your base. That's probably $1000/week rental. Your rock isn't going to be cheaper, culverts you can self source. I think you can save about $10,000-20,000. It's probably going to take you the better part of 160 man hours, but you have half payed off the tractor that will give you many decades of service.

This brings me to my point, if you don't need a 60hp utility tractor long term, hire it done. If you do need it, buy it and work it. If your long term plan needs a 30hp, buy that, do the stripping/clearing with a $600/day rental tracked skid steer. Then do the spreading, grading, with your 30hp tractor.

 

[paulsharvey]

If you want a turn key driveway, stumps and stripping hauled off, grass stabalized shoulders, a Done job, I'd expect the price to be closer to $60k. You are going to strip 16 dump truck loads, plus stumps, bolders, ect, and that's another 2 days of a machine on site. Find grading the shoulders to +/- 0.3 ft for sod, that's an extra day of a machine/operator and a ground guy. Then the price to grass it. A good contractor, good weather, and a clear plan, it's probably 6 working days of work.

If you decide to contract this, Please do your self a favor, research it, have a contract, and include specs in it. Don't hire a random guy by the hour off FB Marketplace. Treat this like a home builder, and have a plan and spec.

 

[MaineBarn]

Alright so I'm hearing loud and clear to not pick a tractor based on that potential project but instead to focus on the right tractor for my at home needs. The driveway project would be too much for essentially any tractor.

Maybe a 50HP tractor could do some of the work, but ultimately it's not the right machine. Even with enough time, the consensus is I'd run into things I couldn't complete and would still be spending to rent rather than own.

Not really that interested getting somewhat heavily used equipment, probably running into maintenance issues (when I'm in the middle of nowhere), and then ultimately needing to sell down the road.

 

[paulsharvey]

Step #1, get a measuring wheel, spray paint, and go lay the drive out, and look at what really needs removed, draw it up on an aerial, and look at it; consider alternative routes, and how they affect your future land use.

 

[airbiscuit]

I use flagging tape and the Huntstand app for mapping our 80 acre hunting property trails.

 

[paulsharvey]

I use flagging tape and the Huntstand app for mapping our 80 acre hunting property trails.

View attachment 2105563

When you are laying stuff out, and i get this is your parents home site, you really also want to roughly lay out future land use. Stuff like pastures, barns, ect, and take the opportunity to plan conduit chases for power/water. I agree Basemap, Landglide, Earth, Huntwise, ect are good tools, but before you get too serious, you can order a 24x36" print for like $15, and then scale draw every in. If you contract it out, you need to do this anyways, you may (or may not) need to for county permitting, ect. I assume you have a survey in PDF format?

 

[paulsharvey]

All that, but its hard to beat boots on the ground, and actually laying it out. Cheap bundles of wire flags are good, because you can do the centerline, and move it to fit.

 

[MaineBarn]

I use flagging tape and the Huntstand app for mapping our 80 acre hunting property trails.

View attachment 2105563

That looks really good! For the trails, can you see them without the lines in place? Or do they look like it's completely tree covered? I did take a look at the satellite images and can see some of the old logging trails from the overhead view. There's some over in the area I'd be clearing and could possibly plug into what looks like two old routes. It would be more of a V than a straight path which is fine. However, based on some of the other obscure probable lines, there could potentially be a lot more paths that are covered by overhead trees.

When you are laying stuff out, and i get this is your parents home site, you really also want to roughly lay out future land use. Stuff like pastures, barns, ect, and take the opportunity to plan conduit chases for power/water. I agree Basemap, Landglide, Earth, Huntwise, ect are good tools, but before you get too serious, you can order a 24x36" print for like $15, and then scale draw every in. If you contract it out, you need to do this anyways, you may (or may not) need to for county permitting, ect. I assume you have a survey in PDF format?

It's kinda of limited use situation. They have a basic structure on the lake where they spend much if their time. It might be 400sq ft. Because of it's proximity to the lake, they can't drill a well. There is no way to drill on the other property and supply water to the other property as the road bisects them and they aren't allowed to run under it.

The driveway would pretty much be for an updated structure where they could relax on days when the weather was poor or if they wanted to entertain.

 

[airbiscuit]

Huntstand is a free mobile app that you can purchase upgrades for.
Pros:
Free or low cost
Nice satellite imagery
You can easily measure distance or area

Cons:
GPS bounces around for mapping (sometimes a little, sometimes a lot)
Old trails may or not show up depending on vegetation, tree cover

Still, it helps me know where things lie. Your perception of where you think when you are on the ground can differ from actual.

 

[MaineBarn]

I had been looking at the TYM lineup. They have a ton of models in the 30-45k (depending on cab/backhoe). I'm still leaning towards getting a higher spec'd model then needed for my house. The reason behind that is because could easily see tractor prices going up soon. It's possible in April when I walk the land I'll see a fairly easy path that could be cleared. At that point the prices could be the same or higher. Not sure if I'm willing to risk it. If they're higher and the path is easy, but at that point I can't afford the right tractor, I'll be kicking myself. If they're the same and it's clear I wouldn't be able to clear the land, well at least I've got something nice.

However, am definitely rethinking the attachments as the stump puller and wood chipper were primarily for that and that is $6-7k right there.

@paulsharvey willing to bet you're correct about the backhoe being an unnecessary thing. It's just that there's several projects that come up randomly in the past where it would have been helpful. Knowing that, would like to have it around.

 

[MJZ]

I just bought my first tractor a year after we built a place. Our road/drive is about half of what you need. We hired an operator with a dozer, skid steer and tractor to cut the drive and level the pad. He and his son finished in 3 long days. I can't imagine doing what you're describing with a tractor. It wouldn't be worth my time. I also think the type of work is not suited to a tractor. Regardless, have fun shopping for the tractor. I think your budget will support paying for a heavy equipment operator and your tractor and implements.

 

[MJZ]

P.s. we bought the yanmar ym342. It's been fantastic.

 

[paulsharvey]

That looks really good! For the trails, can you see them without the lines in place? Or do they look like it's completely tree covered? I did take a look at the satellite images and can see some of the old logging trails from the overhead view. There's some over in the area I'd be clearing and could possibly plug into what looks like two old routes. It would be more of a V than a straight path which is fine. However, based on some of the other obscure probable lines, there could potentially be a lot more paths that are covered by overhead trees.

It's kinda of limited use situation. They have a basic structure on the lake where they spend much if their time. It might be 400sq ft. Because of it's proximity to the lake, they can't drill a well. There is no way to drill on the other property and supply water to the other property as the road bisects them and they aren't allowed to run under it.

The driveway would pretty much be for an updated structure where they could relax on days when the weather was poor or if they wanted to entertain.

Ok, so this is what I would consider critical information, which does kinda change the advice.

It sounds like you can basically cut minimum access now, and we aren't building a small private road. I still should make sure you have a 12 ft clear path, but we can likely skip a lot of other stuff. There are millions of two track trails around the country that work. I would still do the work with an eye towards the future, so avoid anything that will come back to bite you in the future. I would still try to strip highly organic top soil and get stumps out of the 12 ft driving path, but I would worry about root raking, renting a roller, ect. You can probably grind stumps within the drive it's self, and let them decay, but I would still route it to avoid anything bigger than maybe 16", grind, or pull the smaller ones. As(if) this drive becomes a true daily driveway or construction entrance, you can deal with them later, after they break down more. Even areas you jog around an obstacle now, you can realign later. I dont know your soils, your moisture, and I don't deal with freeze Thaw stuff, but you may still need Some rock in the wheel paths, but you can get a load or two delivered to the front of the drive and sprinkle that into trouble areas. No way in heck I would spend $30k on the driveway for an occasional use situation.

As a point of reference, if I was in your exact situation, I would do what I could with my little baby CK2610. If I ran into a massive stump that I couldn't go around, I would slowly dig around the stump with the loader, creating a bowl around it, and burn it out. If there was rocks of greater than 5 tons, I would go around, build over, or dig a hole on the no-drive side, and attempt to roll it into the hole. Now, I wouldn't buy my Ck2610 for your specific task.

 

[paulsharvey]

On the specifically tractor and buying side; i would still think your HP range is appropriate. I might consider a $7,000 Chinese mini hoe over the back hoe attachment, but that can be argued. Yes, it is a separate item to maintain, yes, they aren't always the highest quality, but a mini hoe is a much better digging impliment that a tractor mounted back hoe. It also is frankly a better thing to tear up than the whole tractor, and it is very nice to have a machine for digging, and another for moving material, back filling, moving pipe, ect.

Here is how i spend you $60k budget...

$34,500 on a new MF 2850M
$2,500 on dual rear remotes and 3rd function
$2,500 on a good grapple
$2,500 on a 3 point stump grinder
$12,000 on a imported 2 ton mini hoe
and $6000 saved for what you need that you don't know; bush hog, box blade, 2 or 3 loads of rock, chain saws.

 

[paulsharvey]

I would also kinda default to 400 other threads on purchase; make sure there is a dealer within reasonable distance, maybe 1h30m. Kioti, TYM, Massey, LS, New Holland, ect all make machines in the range of power/size you want. Check out the models before getting to set on one specific make/model. Consider insurance, if fiancing, that adds a couple $k that isn't shown on the sticker. If you don't do your own PM service, figure that is probably atleast a $750 fee at 50 hours, and then $500 every 250 hours after that.

Tires; i like my R14s, but Ags are good too. If working on mostly hard surfaces, R4s are good, but they wouldn't be my first choice. There is a strong argument for R4s in stubble, rock, ect,

Transmission; HST are the go to suggestion in 25-50ish HP, but the power shuttles, sometimes starting at around 40hp-100hp, are also very good.

Cab vs no cab; i fall into the no cab crowd, but there are strong arguments on both sides; if you Need a cab, your budget gets a lot tighter

Brand; they are all good, and they all have lemons; I'm happy with my Kioti, but others really like their TYM, Massey, Deere, Kub, LS, Yanmar, ect. Keep in mind the Korean or European models might have longer lead times on replacement parts. Deere, Kubota, New Holland, Massey; a big part of the added cost is the parts network.

Impliments; things like a box blade, don't really need to be new, and are readily available used. It might be worth driving a few hours, if you have the ability to transport.

 

[MaineBarn]

I would also kinda default to 400 other threads on purchase; make sure there is a dealer within reasonable distance, maybe 1h30m. Kioti, TYM, Massey, LS, New Holland, ect all make machines in the range of power/size you want. Check out the models before getting to set on one specific make/model. Consider insurance, if fiancing, that adds a couple $k that isn't shown on the sticker. If you don't do your own PM service, figure that is probably atleast a $750 fee at 50 hours, and then $500 every 250 hours after that.

Tires; i like my R14s, but Ags are good too. If working on mostly hard surfaces, R4s are good, but they wouldn't be my first choice. There is a strong argument for R4s in stubble, rock, ect,

Transmission; HST are the go to suggestion in 25-50ish HP, but the power shuttles, sometimes starting at around 40hp-100hp, are also very good.

Cab vs no cab; i fall into the no cab crowd, but there are strong arguments on both sides; if you Need a cab, your budget gets a lot tighter

Brand; they are all good, and they all have lemons; I'm happy with my Kioti, but others really like their TYM, Massey, Deere, Kub, LS, Yanmar, ect. Keep in mind the Korean or European models might have longer lead times on replacement parts. Deere, Kubota, New Holland, Massey; a big part of the added cost is the parts network.

Impliments; things like a box blade, don't really need to be new, and are readily available used. It might be worth driving a few hours, if you have the ability to transport.

This is all making sense. Very much appreciated.

Prior to starting this thread I had looked at the countless other novices looking for advice threads. I just couldn't find one with much insight into "max" use for a tractor. I guess I sort of overstated the driveway needs. Really it's a glorified trail through the woods that would need to be used for construction at the beginning and beyond that, would basically be rarely used by a vehicle but would get the occasional use. Most of the time it'd just be for a UTV or golf cart.

Great insight has been shared by all about how to best build up the surface and the amount to clear. Getting gravel to the base wouldn't be too much of a challenge. It's along a secluded lake and in the past 5-10 years more people have built up there than I like to think about. It's not paved but it's been driven on and maintained for around 70yrs. Very well packed at this point.

I'm leaning towards the tractor backhoe. Understanding it's not going to be as capable as a stand alone mini excavator and will add wear to the machine, but feels like it would work best for my needs. Currently a limiting factor is my truck's towing capacity. At some point I'll upgrade, but right now I'm needing to calculate trailer/tractor/backhoe/FEL weight and determine if I can bring tractor + FEL, drop the FEL, drive back and get the backhoe up there. If I had loaded tires (in place of getting a separate backhoe), I wouldn't be able to tow the tractor + FEL. The backhoe is essentially removeable and functional ballast. I'll also keep the backhoe on throughout the winter as another use for it will be clearing a patio. That is away from the driveway but has a lot of snow that falls from the roof onto it. Wouldn't be able to get to it with the loader bucket but could scoop with the backhoe from the side periodically. During the summer it would come off to limit wear on the tractor and I could get a ballast box if doing loader work with any weight.

I'm only looking at cabbed models. Maybe I'm prissy? Currently 40 and know I'll be using this machine for the next 30+ years in the snow. Would much rather be nice and cozy instead of dealing with freezing snow being blown all around. Plus if doing that woods project, it is mosquito city up there.

As to the budget, I'm looking at something with the ballpark of
~46k TYM T574C (maybe HC)
~4k in dealer installed/me installed options (third function kit, engine block heater, thumb, edge tamers, grill guard). I do not believe with the 574 I'd need an add on dual rear remote? In the specs it says "two sets of rear auxiliary valves"
~2.5k grapple
~1.5k rear blade
~1k auger
~1k snow bucket
~1.5k box blade

With taxes, that comes out to just over $60k. The snow bucket and box could definitely wait. I think I would rent the stump grinder if needed as I don't see any use for it long term. Thinking around the house, a wood chipper would get more play should I add any other attachments. With insurance and all factored in, thinking my budget will be fully exhausted for now. That would leave enough for the random things I need that I'm not thinking about (like rear camera/screen) and maintenance.

 

[Carl_NH]

You could consider this Kubota L47 with 516 hours and $42K which is built for what you are going to do in the woods - these are tough machines and you can add a cab if you need to. https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...wse_serp:412b3e4b-efcb-4a3b-9124-6eaf8a288bd5

 

[airbiscuit]

Can't you just make brush piles and burn them, rather than using a wood chipper?