Buying Advice Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start

[rumwrks]

What are your thoughts on a tractor versus skid steer?

Both are good of course if you have unlimited money.... There are more low cost implements for a tractor and it's a lot easier to find them used, and tractors are generally cheaper to run and fix as well.

Skid steers have more hydraulic flow and pushing/lifting power so they can run some implements a tractor can't easily (I'm generalizing a bit here..) but things like a heavy forestry shredder on the front end of a skid steer is just going to work better/faster than a comparable tractor implement. And yes your dad is right you can push more dirt and lift more weight with a skid steer.. but again .. does that actually matter for your use case. Skid steers are also more agile, which can be pretty useful for things like cleaning stalls (until someone gets the thing somehow stuck in a stall so bad you have to take apart half the barn to get it out... but i digress..).

If you needed to push in small roads, or move a lot of material.. then.. a skid steer might make sense. But from what usage you've described the cost/benefit tradeoff is more towards a tractor.

brush hog versus flail mower

Again it's all trade offs.. The flail will leave a nicer cut path in grass areas, doesn't take as much room/stick out as far behind the tractor, and technically you can usually get a touch wider cut with the same HP, you can also get one that will offset a bit to the side of the tractor which is nice for fence lines. OTOH brush hogs are tough as hell (at least the good ones), pretty simple and generally fairly cheap to maintain (new blades are cheaper anyway... and you can sharpen them a few times as well..) and you could get a good one used on marketplace or craigslist for under a grand in the size you'd want. I rarely see used flail mowers, basically never small ones especially (there are some ag sized ones I've seen which whooo $$$$$), and a new one is $3k+. I think brush hogs are a little more forgiving in rough terrain as well. So.. yeah.. "it depends on budget and use case".... For you... probably a 48" brush hog and you're good to go.. or maybe a small flail mower . Look for one with lots of cross bracing, thick metal, and a decent looking gearbox.

question about brambles

Once you have a tractor you can start wrapping a chain around them and ripping them out. Then once the young delicious shoots come up in the spring put some goats on them.... then you'll spend all your time chasing after and yelling at the goats and will forget about the brambles entirely...

 

[rScotty]

What are your thoughts on a tractor versus skid steer?

In addition, what is your position on a brush hog versus flail mower - another distinction that my dad asserted was better - and I didn't have enough information to refute other than a brush hog was the implement that was always used when it was cleared.

Thank you everyone for the insight and discussion. I'm reading through everything that is being posted and am learning so much!

This is an old, old argument. Skid steers have their uses, but don't even start to go there. Stick with your original plan.

Understandably, you will want some reasons....OK, just to start, they are made for different jobs. Skid steers are made for work on the flat and with a helper. That is why you see them being used for road repair. Tractors are for fields and with one person doing the work.

Skid steers will lift more for their size, but they aren't any more stable....and stability is what limits either one. Besides, most any 30 hp tractor will lift and walk away with a ton in the bucket. What do you expect to be carrying??

More: Instead of sitting above a towed implement like a tractor does, a skid steer has the implement in front at face level and being pushed. That means that skid steer operators are always driving into a cloud of their own making that a tractor is leaving behind.
You don't realize it yet, but you will be on and off of the tractor more than you can believe until you run one for chores.
Tractors are made for easy access; skid steers involve climbing over the loader to get to the seat.

In use, a tractor's longer wheel base and having weight distributed at the ends instead of the middle mean it does far less pitching motion on rough terrain.
Skid steers in your price range do not usually have a 3pt hitch or a PTO or extra low gearing - all those things are essential.... not to mention the ride and the seat comfort.
Then there is the price difference or how hard it is to find a good one. That is easy for used tractors; but close to impossible for used skid steers. And SS implements cost double or more.

On bush hogs vs flail mowers I don't know. I've always used bush hogs. A five foot bush hog is standard and good used ones cost a thousand or two. You can generally sell one for what you pay if buying used. The nice thing about used 3pt mplements for tractors is there are lots out there and most will work even if they look rough. So try both if you can, but I bet you'll end up with a bush hog for dealing with vines like brambles.

Back to the tractor vs skid steers and mowing, here is something to think about: Mowing with a bush hog or flail means that debris from golf balls to bottles to rocks and parts of branches gets hurled in all directions and without warning. Some of it always escapes & can be slung clear out of sight in a hurry. In a tractor you tend ot sit above the line of fire....

Good luck,
rScotty

 

[California]

Fattylumpkins, listen to rScotty. His relevant experience goes back many decades. I've learned a lot from him.

 

[WayneGasMan]

Hi All, been following these forums for quite a while - always good to great advice. My 2 cents worth for this lady is - if you get a bucket, (who wouldn't?), get a 4in1!! I run a little old Kubota L1500 DT with a 4in1, and even though operation is slow, it is very handy. My main helper is an Australian Kanga miniloader with a 4in1 (and several other attachments). The 4in1 bucket is many more times more useful than a standard loader bucket. I can do things that I'm sure Kanga didn't envisage. Find some Youtube videos and you will see what I mean. Best wishes and good luck.

 

[Soloz2]

For your use case I think a subcompact like a BX or 1 series JD will be perfect, but u might want to look up a size or two just to get a feel for size. Tractors are directly capable to their size and weight. The heavier they are the more muscle they have for projects like moving dirt, pulling bushes out of the ground etc.

For moving wood, what is the form of this wood? This was one of my primary purposes for buying my Kubota B2601 and I got a 3rd function and grapple for it, but honestly if you are moving cut rounds or split wood the bucket is easier. If you need to move piles of brush or logs then the grapple is worth its weight in gold! So if you can easily cut the wood into smaller sizes for moving you won’t need a grapple.

Brush hog is one any of them can do. HP and machine size will dictate how wide you can go. Most will run a 4-5’ wide brush hog or flail mower, but your dealer will help you out with this. I would want a bit more power than you think you need for cutting thick or wet stuff, but going slow any will suffice.

A subcompact can till and move around dirt, but especially when moving dirt the larger machine will do it significantly quicker and easier. My B series will lose traction trying to dig into root filled dirt, where an L would probably cut through a lot easier.

Pallet forks are something to consider. Any time I have to get something large or heavy, I throw a pallet in the back of my truck and then just lift the pallet out with my tractor so I don’t have to move everything twice!

Will you need to move snow? It can be done with the bucket, but it’s a pita. I did that and now have a snow pusher on order.

Try both machines out. Distance to the dealer is less an issue than actual service. Near me JD is the closest followed by LS then MF and it goes outward. I shopped all the brands except LS as I bought my cub cadet from that dealer and will never go back lol. I bought a Kubota as they were the best dealer and I have no concerns about sending my wife to grab something from them.

 

[WinterDeere]

...get a 4in1!! I run a little old Kubota L1500 DT with a 4in1, and even though operation is slow, it is very handy.

Aren't 4-in-1's pretty heavy, when mounting on machines that only have ~600 lb. lift at the wrists? They also require a 3rd remote channel plumbed up to the end of the loader, something not common to sub-compact tractors, especially if shopping used.

Not saying it's not an option, or even a good one, just factors to consider.

 

[macdoesit]

Any tractor other than JD, they are moving to Mexico, that means JD employees out of a job and cheap Mexican labor. I'll never own a JD.

 

[skiff]

I currently have a BX23S and a Massey GC2400. Both with front end loaders and Kubota has a small backhoe. Also have 3-point rototiller which I use a couple of times a year. Had a Kubota B2150 which I used for a 5-acre horse property in the past with pretty much every attachment. I sold it as a package when I moved from VA to NC. Both the Kubotas and Massey have been good to me.

One recommendation which I dont think has been made is to give consideration to getting attachments on/off. They are heavy and can be difficult to maneuver. All manufacturers make quick connect devices which make things much easier. But that doesn't mean they are easy. For example, I have a drive over mid mount mower on my BX and it can be a bit finicky. The standard BX front-end loader is very tricky to get on and off. You should try them at the dealer.

Also I'd recommend hydrostatic (basically automatic) versus geared tractor. As far as size, a BX frame will do everything you need. The implements are smaller (4' bush hog versus 5') so jobs just take a bit longer. But smaller is sometimes also better for some jobs such as mowing.

Also consider maintenance. Keeping fluids changed at recommended intervals is key to tractor longevity. None of the routine maintenance is difficult to do but if you are not inclined to do it yourself then you may want a means to get the tractor to the dealer.

 

[Runner]

For your use case I think a subcompact like a BX or 1 series JD will be perfect, but u might want to look up a size or two just to get a feel for size. Tractors are directly capable to their size and weight. The heavier they are the more muscle they have for projects like moving dirt, pulling bushes out of the ground etc.

For moving wood, what is the form of this wood? This was one of my primary purposes for buying my Kubota B2601 and I got a 3rd function and grapple for it, but honestly if you are moving cut rounds or split wood the bucket is easier. If you need to move piles of brush or logs then the grapple is worth its weight in gold! So if you can easily cut the wood into smaller sizes for moving you won’t need a grapple.

Brush hog is one any of them can do. HP and machine size will dictate how wide you can go. Most will run a 4-5’ wide brush hog or flail mower, but your dealer will help you out with this. I would want a bit more power than you think you need for cutting thick or wet stuff, but going slow any will suffice.

A subcompact can till and move around dirt, but especially when moving dirt the larger machine will do it significantly quicker and easier. My B series will lose traction trying to dig into root filled dirt, where an L would probably cut through a lot easier.

Pallet forks are something to consider. Any time I have to get something large or heavy, I throw a pallet in the back of my truck and then just lift the pallet out with my tractor so I don’t have to move everything twice!

Will you need to move snow? It can be done with the bucket, but it’s a pita. I did that and now have a snow pusher on order.

Try both machines out. Distance to the dealer is less an issue than actual service. Near me JD is the closest followed by LS then MF and it goes outward. I shopped all the brands except LS as I bought my cub cadet from that dealer and will never go back lol. I bought a Kubota as they were the best dealer and I have no concerns about sending my wife to grab something from them.

Although I (sort of) recommended looking at a JD 1025R or whatever the current subcompact from them is, I have to say that I do have one reservation about this:

I don't know if this is a recurring problem or not, but I seem to remember some folks with that model on here having problems with the rear PTO's breaking while running a rotary cutter (brush hog). This was years ago, and I don't even know how widespread this was, but it's always been in the back of my mind about that model and one reason I'm glad I went with the next size up for our property.

Again, not meaning to talk down the JD subcompact, because I like the idea of using one on smaller property, but that one issue has always stayed in my mind.

Don't remember ever hearing of such problems with the Kubota BX series.

 

[GeneSimm7]

John Deere and Kubota are both great tractors. If you get a backhoe be sure to get it with a thumb. Get 4-wheel drive. Get loaded tires. A cab is a nice luxury if you expect to use in very hot or cold weather.. Of course get a loader. Finally, decide what is the maximum/heaviest tractor you can afford and then buy the next larger one.

 

[dh206]

You're going to run into smack-dab into the biggest question that gets asked. How much power is enough? Or the corollary, how much power is too much.

I have an older model Kubota BX 2350 that I got used and love. It's what I need. I have 3.14 acres, but it's all flat. I don't have boulders. I could use it for mowing, but honestly a lawn tractor isn't nearly as good as a ZTR mower for mowing something this sized. It just isn't.

You'll find that a sub-compact will do less damage to your grass, if you care, while a compact+ will do more but have more capability (lifting capacity, etc.) This is important to me where I use it for carrying misc lumber, put in some fence posts with a PTO rear auger, pushing snow (Pennsylvania), carrying mulch into my raised bed garden area (smaller tractor is better here), digging smaller holes (put in a greenhouse), moving gigantic 300 lb pots around with the boom lift, occasionally moving small pallets of stuff with a pallet fork, and some misc tilling. I do this all over my lawn so I have turf tires and the reduced weight makes a difference in lawn damage. I never use it for cutting grass. If I had a field I'd get a brush hog or flail or rear mower, but it's a lot slower for cutting grass because there's so much steering slop vs precise turns on a ztr. I also use the tractor with a carry-all a LOT, and am lately using it to ferry around a 50 gallon rain barrel to water some new plantings in the drought.

You'll find that, head-to-head (Youtube videos for "Tractor Time with Tim"), that (from memory). There's a lot of good content there.
The JD sub-compact has more front bucket lift capacity
The Kubota has slightly more rear lift capacity.
The Kubota is easier to operate the bucket and do tilt/lift operations at the same time (his experience). The JD is harder to find the sweet spot between lifting and curling (but can be learned)
The JD has more niceties with the drive-over easy-attach deck (if that matters)
I think the JD had slightly more pulling capacity, but honestly don't remember (the BX has more than enough for me)

 

[Yanmar J]

Hi!

I will have to try your recommendation with the chain and hook. I have all of those tools at my disposal right now, and will be giving this a go this weekend My broad fork is how I've been getting at the rhizomes but it's just an overwhelming uphill battle that I am constantly losing. Due to the huge rocks just beneath the surface of the soil, my brush cutter with the fitted blade has become a sketchy weapon - I never know what I'm about to hit.

I will look into what you suggested as well, my cursory review of what was available had me thinking the BX2380 would be the best option for my needs and then came all the (overwhelming) options about add-ons. I think that can be covered by talking to the dealer directly, I just want to know what base version I should seek out. Do you think a front loader (is that the bucket attachment?) would be something to immediately purchase?

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! Such great advice!

Look at Yanmar, Holland and other non-best brands. I have a used 2500 Yanmar with FEL (front end loader) made in 1977, bought about 15 years ago. You will find uses for the FEL than you ever thought of. Yanmar also makes most of the parts for John Deer (JD) including engine and more. Buying from elderly or others looking to size down to move to Florida or someone to move up to a bigger tractor (always go at least 1 size larger than you think you need) I live on 2.6 acers in East Tx. Up till 20 years ago, I knew nothing about tractors and no one to learn from. Tractor by net, books and computer helped me a lot. Now I know about as much as a 6-year-old farm boy (actually he is much smarter because he has a dad to teach him) A lot of tractor people will even deliver it to you, and most will give you a crash course on how to operate it. And I do mean "crash course". Tractor and implements are "VERY DANGEROUS" but follow all safety rules, suggestions but most of all the advice from this site you will love it.
If you have a neighbor that is willing to go with you to check out a tractor, take advantage of it. Remember, there are no stupid questions, just people too stupid to ask it.
As for this site, read about everything. You never know when it might pertain to you.
(What is that little lever under the seat for?) You too will learn what FEL means.
Also check out main@yanmar-tractor-owners.groups. Not just for Yanmar tractors. Lots of experience, and will answer all your questions(yes, even the stupid ones).
Best of luck,
John

 

[WinterDeere]

Any tractor other than JD, they are moving to Mexico, that means JD employees out of a job and cheap Mexican labor. I'll never own a JD.

??? So, you'd own a Mahindra (India), a Kioti (Korea), Fendt (Germany), or Kubota (Japan), but not the one brand that still makes more tractors in the USA than all other brands?

To be fair, Kubota does make some tractors in USA, but most of the CUT's they sell in USA are built in Japan. The reverse of Deere, who makes most of their products in USA, but is moving more to Mexico in the near future.

 

[bruceha2000]

To start, I haven't read all 9 pages so forgive me if I say something already said.

I will disagree with @rScotty on one thing. While rotary cutters can fling stuff 360° (yes even under the tractor) and often quite far and VERY fast, a flail rotates perpendicular to travel, everything goes out the back and there is little that gets thrown. On the other hand, you can back a rotary into brush and it will cut, a flail won't go in as far and therefore won't cut as much and won't really cut well until you move forward. And you want to know what is in there before you back in, rotary blades are heartier than flail knives or hammers. On the other, other hand, I can back my flail to the fence and cut the "corners" of the area which is impossible with a rotary.

Additionally, my 5' flail makes great multi use 750# rear ballast - which you need, along with loaded rear tires, if you do anything substantial with the loader. The flail is quite close to the machine so as a unit is easier to store if you don't have a lot of space. My 35 HP Mahindra 1533 with forks (get these!) or bucket plus flail fits in my barn bay with the door closed. I would have to remove a rotary cutter to house the tractor.

I did not fork over the money for front hydraulics and a grapple though they would be very nice to have. But $$$$$ and as mentioned you would need a lightweight grapple if you get a small tractor. I'm sure I would not be happy with a subcompact, too little lift capacity (pay attention to this as you compare tractors, my 1533 lifts several hundred pounds more than an equivalent Kubota ... but the Kubota has more PTO HP ... SO many variables!). I use the forks to carry downed trees if pulled out of the woods. I cut them to 8' - 12' depending on diameter for bucking to 16" back at the barn. And I've used them to pry rocks out of the field. I made firewood dry/store racks that hold 1 run which I put on the landing of the second door to the enclosed porch as needed so I don't have to go out in the cold and snow to get wood. Much less handling that way - splitter to rack to stove. Forks are also needed to get all the attachments you end up buying later off the delivery truck

You will probably want a quick hitch for the rear attachments, no way I could manhandle the flail to get it aligned to the tractor. Some tractors do have telescoping 3 point lift arms which would make it somewhat easier.

 

[bruceha2000]

I will also add that I knew NOTHING about tractors until 5 years ago. I bought new, figuring I didn't need to learn how to fix it soon after buying. I learned a lot watching YouTube videos. TractorTimeWithTim is where I started, he had a JD 1025R and does way more with it than one might expect, he now has a LOT of tractors and related equipment. He grew up on a farm so all these things were not new to him. Also TractorMike, I learned a lot from him too. In the end, it is time with the machine that you'll need to get comfortable. Be the tortoise, not the hare. As was noted, even the small machines have a LOT of power compared to our puny human selves. Easy to break things.

 

[fattylumpkins]

John Deere and Kubota are both great tractors. If you get a backhoe be sure to get it with a thumb. Get 4-wheel drive. Get loaded tires. A cab is a nice luxury if you expect to use in very hot or cold weather.. Of course get a loader. Finally, decide what is the maximum/heaviest tractor you can afford and then buy the next larger one.

Please excuse this dumb question - what is a thumb? I would love to get a backhoe - would you recommend getting that when I make the initial purchase if I decide to purchase new?

Up till 20 years ago, I knew nothing about tractors and no one to learn from. Tractor by net, books and computer helped me a lot. Now I know about as much as a 6-year-old farm boy (actually he is much smarter because he has a dad to teach him) A lot of tractor people will even deliver it to you, and most will give you a crash course on how to operate it. And I do mean "crash course". Tractor and implements are "VERY DANGEROUS" but follow all safety rules, suggestions but most of all the advice from this site you will love it.
If you have a neighbor that is willing to go with you to check out a tractor, take advantage of it. Remember, there are no stupid questions, just people too stupid to ask it.

Thank you for your post - this resonates - but over the last few days, I have learned so much! What books do you recommend? I've begun to watch YouTube on the subject from the suggestions provided and it's been very illuminating, I just retain information better by reading as it forces my concentration.

I will also add that I knew NOTHING about tractors until 5 years ago. I bought new, figuring I didn't need to learn how to fix it soon after buying. I learned a lot watching YouTube videos. TractorTimeWithTim is where I started, he had a JD 1025R and does way more with it than one might expect, he now has a LOT of tractors and related equipment. He grew up on a farm so all these things were not new to him. Also TractorMike, I learned a lot from him too. In the end, it is time with the machine that you'll need to get comfortable. Be the tortoise, not the hare. As was noted, even the small machines have a LOT of power compared to our puny human selves. Easy to break things.

Thank you! I'm building out a playlist to run based on everyone's excellent recommendations

Again, thank you everyone so so much for all the insight. This is such an amazing resource and you all have taught me so much already!

 

[WinterDeere]

Please excuse this dumb question - what is a thumb? I would love to get a backhoe - would you recommend getting that when I make the initial purchase if I decide to purchase new?

Loader controls are often referred to as "lift" and "curl", the first being the hydraulic cylinders that lift the loader arms, and the latter being the hydraulic cylinders that dump or roll the bucket fore/aft. When directing an operator at the controls, we typically use the wrist to show curl, and movement from the elbow or shoulder to show lift.

But those picking up logs or brush piles often want some way to "grip", and because gripping with the hand is the easy way to demonstrate this when directing an operator, the implements used to grip items are usually called a "thumb".

In most cases, you'll find these on excavators and backhoes, but also found on pallet forks (often called "grapple" in that case):



They're super-useful on larger CUT's, but I'd honestly not put one on a subcompact or even a Series-2 JD. They add weight, which will reduce your loader lift capacity, and are targeted for picking up mostly heavier items. Grapples and thumbs are very useful, but I'd argue more so on larger machines than what you're probably shopping.

Thank you for your post - this resonates - but over the last few days, I have learned so much! What books do you recommend? I've begun to watch YouTube on the subject from the suggestions provided and it's been very illuminating, I just retain information better by reading as it forces my concentration.

No suggestion on books, but on YouTube, any beginning shopper can benefit from the older episodes of "Good Works Tractors". The videos have progressed more toward selling things than instruction, as time goes on, so I bailed on watching that channel a few years ago. But the earlier videos were good.

Like wise with "Tractor Time with Tim", which was very good specifically for those looking at sub-compact tractors.

There are always new ones popping up, I haven't really watched much since the last time I was shopping for my latest new tractor, 2018/19.

 

[teesquare]

I did not see anyone bring up the. TLB. TRUE - tractor/loader/backhoe. Made for working on construction job sites - they tend to be heavier duty. Higher flow hydraulics, etc. Just something to consider. If you have need of a backhoe - these are not like the add-on, subframe attached backhoes. Much more power. For real digging/moving things - trees, rocks etc. Get the hydraulic thumb - HUGE advantage. And - for front end loaders - there are all kinds of options - need dependent. root or log grapples, clamshell buckets, etc.
I just think it is a more versatile machine. BUT....my needs are not ploughing or grading. Tho I can remove the backhoe, and do those things if I needed.

 

[WinterDeere]

Maybe a bit of overkill for the OP's described needs and budget?

 

[rScotty]

I did not see anyone bring up the. TLB. TRUE - tractor/loader/backhoe. Made for working on construction job sites - they tend to be heavier duty. Higher flow hydraulics, etc. Just something to consider. If you have need of a backhoe - these are not like the add-on, subframe attached backhoes. Much more power. For real digging/moving things - trees, rocks etc. Get the hydraulic thumb - HUGE advantage. And - for front end loaders - there are all kinds of options - need dependent. root or log grapples, clamshell buckets, etc.
I just think it is a more versatile machine. BUT....my needs are not ploughing or grading. Tho I can remove the backhoe, and do those things if I needed.

I agree. The little Kubota B26 has been made now for close to 20 years as an old style TLB without emissions or computers. TLBs are just like tractors, but on TLBs the backhoe is standard, while the 3pt becomes the optional attachment. Has a PTO and simple 3 speed HST transmission plus a 4 post canopy.
They tend to have industrial tires. Nice. An older one might just barely be within her price range

As for good books on general tractors and tractoring I don't know of any such. It seems an odd omission.
rScotty