Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[MossRoad]

While I agree with your math that the basement is cost effective if you need the living space. Then we are back to the stairs used on a daily basis.

Your first sentence is simply wrong.

The OP needs about 142' X 8" thick of concrete wall about 4' down for a crawlspace. Extending that wall to 9' ads 18 yards of concrete. That's about $2500 additional in concrete to double the floor space. The contractor is going to have to dig the hole deeper, but they're already there. They're going to have to set taller forms, but they're already there setting 4' forms. It's going to cost for more rebar. You won't have but around $5-6000 in additional materials and labor. It's an extremely cost effective way to double your available floor space, even if you aren't going to use it as living space. It's there for future use if you want to finish it later.

Of course, there's variables like shallow bedrock or high water table. However, in general, in soil conditions conducive to it, it's the best bang for the buck.

 

[turbo36]

This is very true.

The attached renders is what I had in mind when I first designed the ICF house. I soon realized all the "fancy" stuff like natural stone veneer, clear span floor diaphragm via the floor trusses etc, caused the build cost to skyrocket. The faux A-Frame was another feature that cause builders to freak out. So I'm thinking, be it ICF or stick frame, that design while only being 1243 sq-ft is very expensive to build due to the way I designed the home. So I'm very curious to hear what this latest builder has to say for the build cost of that design. I've only had one builder give me an estimate on that ICF design and he came in at $460/sq-ft! All the other builders at the time no-quoted the build...

What design software are you using?

 

[ETD66SS]

What design software are you using?

I'm a mechanical design engineer, so I use primarily AutoCAD for 2D work and Autodesk Inventor for 3D work. Inventor is not really for architecture but it's what I know...

 

[turbo36]

I'm a mechanical design engineer, so I use primarily AutoCAD for 2D work and Autodesk Inventor for 3D work. Inventor is not really for architecture but it's what I know...

Manufacturing engineer myself, but I did quite a bit of design work. Familiar with AutoCAD and Solid Works. Can find my way around doing simple plans, but what you're doing here is pretty complex from my point of you. I am very impressed with your skills.

I am currently designing a new house for my lake property and have been using Home Designer Pro from Chief Architect. Simple but effective.

 

[ETD66SS]

Manufacturing engineer myself, but I did quite a bit of design work. Familiar with AutoCAD and Solid Works. Can find my way around doing simple plans, but what you're doing here is pretty complex from my point of you. I am very impressed with your skills.

I am currently designing a new house for my lake property and have been using Home Designer Pro from Chief Architect. Simple but effective.

I used SolidWorks about 24 years ago, but then my company switched to Inventor. I have tried the Home Designer software but didn't like it. I also have access to Autodesk Revit, which is what *should* be used for architecture, but it's quite a different animal from SolidWorks/Inventor. I didn't want to put in the time to learn it, so just used Inventor.

It's a bit overkill, a house can be designed in 2D in AutoCAD, but modeling things in 3D first helps me to visualize what I think I want etc...

I use 3D design for every project, it just helps me when I'm actually building/fabricating, knowing that I went through everything step by step in CAD before cutting, welding, etc

I simply have endless projects... It's really why I need a shop badly and am heavily leaning towards the Barndo build...

 

[turbo36]

I used SolidWorks about 24 years ago, but then my company switched to Inventor. I have tried the Home Designer software but didn't like it. I also have access to Autodesk Revit, which is what *should* be used for architecture, but it's quite a different animal from SolidWorks/Inventor. I didn't want to put in the time to learn it, so just used Inventor.

It's a bit overkill, a house can be designed in 2D in AutoCAD, but modeling things in 3D first helps me to visualize what I think I want etc...

View attachment 783219

I use 3D design for every project, it just helps me when I'm actually building/fabricating, knowing that I went through everything step by step in CAD before cutting, welding, etc


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I simply have endless projects... It's really why I need a shop badly and am heavily leaning towards the Barndo build...

Wow nice stuff! I am like you, I need to see stuff in 3-D to wrap my head around it. In fact, a lot of times I build paper or cardboard mock-ups so I can walk around it and look at it from different angles.
The last house I designed and had built has a kitchen that everyone that comes into it says "wow, you're so lucky this turned out so good". Little did they know that I mocked up the whole kitchen multiple times in full size cardboard and plywood models so my wife could walk around and get a feel of things. Lots of work, but almost 20 years later, I wouldn't change anything.

Somebody mentioned earlier something about a mobile home, don't know if your zoning allows it, but perhaps you could build the shop exactly and use mobile home until you are ready to build a permanent home.

 

[ETD66SS]

Wow nice stuff! I am like you, I need to see stuff in 3-D to wrap my head around it. In fact, a lot of times I build paper or cardboard mock-ups so I can walk around it and look at it from different angles.
The last house I designed and had built has a kitchen that everyone that comes into it says "wow, you're so lucky this turned out so good". Little did they know that I mocked up the whole kitchen multiple times in full size cardboard and plywood models so my wife could walk around and get a feel of things. Lots of work, but almost 20 years later, I wouldn't change anything.

Somebody mentioned earlier something about a mobile home, don't know if your zoning allows it, but perhaps you could build the shop exactly and use mobile home until you are ready to build a permanent home.

The mobile home thing is an option, but just not something that appeals to me.

 

[ovrszd]

The OP needs about 142' X 8" thick of concrete wall about 4' down for a crawlspace. Extending that wall to 9' ads 18 yards of concrete. That's about $2500 additional in concrete to double the floor space. The contractor is going to have to dig the hole deeper, but they're already there. They're going to have to set taller forms, but they're already there setting 4' forms. It's going to cost for more rebar. You won't have but around $5-6000 in additional materials and labor. It's an extremely cost effective way to double your available floor space, even if you aren't going to use it as living space. It's there for future use if you want to finish it later.

Of course, there's variables like shallow bedrock or high water table. However, in general, in soil conditions conducive to it, it's the best bang for the buck.

Your concrete guys work much, much, much cheaper than mine. $5-6K for a basement over a footing with crawl space??? Yeah right......

 

[ovrszd]

The mobile home thing is an option, but just not something that appeals to me.

The more I "get to know you" the more I think you need the barndo. You'll wonder how you got along without it.

If I were single that's what I would have built. My wife is a meticulous housekeeper. You'd think no one lives in our house. After consideration I didn't think she would have liked the shop connected to the house. For us, two separate buildings was the best solution.

 

[MossRoad]

Your concrete guys work much, much, much cheaper than mine. $5-6K for a basement over a footing with crawl space??? Yeah right......

It's not a footing. The footing is at the bottom. He's gonna need the same footing for a crawl space or a basement wall. The only additional expense is a deeper hole, the 18 additional yards of concrete, twice as much rebar, and taller forms. The labor is the same.

 

[turbo36]

It's not a footing. The footing is at the bottom. He's gonna need the same footing for a crawl space or a basement wall. The only additional expense is a deeper hole, the 18 additional yards of concrete, twice as much rebar, and taller forms. The labor is the same.

Correct, the footing is placed below the frost line, and then the wall has to extend up to your building surface. That's one thing about being down south you don't worry about the frost much.

 

[ETD66SS]

It's not a footing. The footing is at the bottom. He's gonna need the same footing for a crawl space or a basement wall. The only additional expense is a deeper hole, the 18 additional yards of concrete, twice as much rebar, and taller forms. The labor is the same.

My ICF design has a full basement under the main living space. It's only a crawl space under the living room. I could add that as part of the basement, but it adds a decent amount of cost. And yes, I have to go a min of 42" below grade for the footing up here in WNY.

But add in the extra 32in I need to get down to the footing, then another slab under the living room. I mean yeah, I hate wasting that, even hate wasting the area under the front porch. If I had more money I would increase the footprint of the basement.

The estimate I received back on this ICF design in 2021 was $460/sq-ft ($570k to build a 1243 sq-ft home, nope, I can't afford that), the builders' estimate for all the ICF and concrete (not including the stone veneer) was $120k. I'm curious what this new builder comes back with for an estimate in 2023.

 

[5030]

Just always keep in mind that if you live in a zoned area, you need to check with the local building inspector to see of they are even a permitted dwelling. Here, they are not.

 

[ETD66SS]

Just always keep in mind that if you live in a zoned area, you need to check with the local building inspector to see of they are even a permitted dwelling. Here, they are not.

You mean a Barndominium? The building inspector was the one who turned me on to the idea. Once my design is complete after tentatively selecting a builder and optimizing the build per the way that particular builder wants to construct it, I have to have a Registered Architect inspect my plans and stamp them. That's the stage where all the legalities are ironed out.

Now, I will say, my design might be stretching the definition of a "Barndominium".

The ICF design has already been stamped by an RA, it's ready to go, I just can't afford to build it.

 

[5030]

What I meant and your building inspector and your zoning board are 2 different things. In as much as I don't live in your state or locailty, I'd check your local ordinances first. Like I said, not allowed here.

 

[ETD66SS]

What I meant and your building inspector and your zoning board are 2 different things. In as much as I don't live in your state or locailty, I'd check your local ordinances first. Like I said, not allowed here.

All 4 builders I have talked to have built Barndominiums in the area. And at least in my municipality, the zoning board and building inspector work hand in hand. For instance, I wanted to build just a pole barn before building a house. The building inspector informed me the zoning board does not allow that. House has to come first. That new bylaw just passed in 2022 is what lead me to design a Barndominium, per the suggestion of the Building inspector. But hey it is New York, so maybe they passed a law against them already. They want to outlaw natural gas so anything goes I guess...

 

[tradosaurus]

Insurers don't like garages ready to light up a living space. Check insurance prices. I'd build a small ranch and a separate huge garage. Having to climb stairs to the house is a pain especially a wintry day with groceries or guests. Shovel required first thing. Ranch - safer, less dust and dirt in the home, quieter, etc. The cook in your kitchen gets to enjoy noises from anyone going to the bathroom, and to listen to the washer/dryer. Not my cup of tea.

Couldn't wait to get rid of my 2 story house and move into a traditional ranch style layout.

 

[tradosaurus]

I'm a mechanical design engineer, so I use primarily AutoCAD for 2D work and Autodesk Inventor for 3D work. Inventor is not really for architecture but it's what I know...

Exact same here except you are better with Inventory than I am.

 

[tradosaurus]

You mean a Barndominium? The building inspector was the one who turned me on to the idea. Once my design is complete after tentatively selecting a builder and optimizing the build per the way that particular builder wants to construct it, I have to have a Registered Architect inspect my plans and stamp them. That's the stage where all the legalities are ironed out.

Now, I will say, my design might be stretching the definition of a "Barndominium".

The ICF design has already been stamped by an RA, it's ready to go, I just can't afford to build it.

I like your two designs and the tenacity you have in seeing it through.

Are you stuck in New York because of family? Would it be cheaper to relocate to Florida or Texas and have more options with your house?

 

[ETD66SS]

I like your two designs and the tenacity you have in seeing it through.

Are you stuck in New York because of family? Would it be cheaper to relocate to Florida or Texas and have more options with your house?

Family plus I have a well paying job here. If I was to move, it would be somewhere more remote like Wyoming or Montana or the like. Not Florida or Texas...