Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[MossRoad]

Equals stairs.

But it sounds like stairs doesn't bother the OP.

Stairs that you don't have to climb on a daily basis VS stairs you have to use multiple times per day. Big difference.

 

[ovrszd]

This is very true.

The attached renders is what I had in mind when I first designed the ICF house. I soon realized all the "fancy" stuff like natural stone veneer, clear span floor diaphragm via the floor trusses etc, caused the build cost to skyrocket. The faux A-Frame was another feature that cause builders to freak out. So I'm thinking, be it ICF or stick frame, that design while only being 1243 sq-ft is very expensive to build due to the way I designed the home. So I'm very curious to hear what this latest builder has to say for the build cost of that design. I've only had one builder give me an estimate on that ICF design and he came in at $460/sq-ft! All the other builders at the time no-quoted the build...

We were lucky to get ours built before things started going up. I'm going to guess that our cost would be double today. So $240/sq-ft for the house and $80/sq-ft for the shop.

I did all of the outside dirt work, buried all the services and wired both buildings to try to cut some cost.

Since our shop was going to be all weather on a heated concrete floor the builder said he could do it stick built a little cheaper than pole barn design.

 

[MossRoad]

Plus in my state basements are not taxable square footage.

Well, kinda. If you finish the basement off, or a portion of it, it might. You can't put bedrooms down there either, unless there's egress windows for fire escape. Once you do that, then it's taxable, at least here it is. Your location may not.

 

[tom3]

For that taxing rate I'd build the big garage and put a house trailer behind it under a car port type deal. Trailer taxes are dirt cheap (in my area). If I won a lottery at some point then I'd build a nice house beside it.

 

[ovrszd]

Stairs that you don't have to climb on a daily basis VS stairs you have to use multiple times per day. Big difference.

Then we get into cost effectiveness. What's a basement or upstairs worth that you don't need regularly?

 

[MossRoad]

Stairs do not bother me no. My father just passed away at 88 years of age and used stairs to the end.

Now that doesn't mean I won't have issues at that age.

I guess I should also say I am a life long bachelor and plan to stay that way. I suppose the Barndominium design reflects that more than the ICF design.

Ahhh, that changes some things.

I've told my kids if anything happens to their mom, death or divorce, they can find me living on our remote property in a shipping container with an old orange cat!

 

[ETD66SS]

We were lucky to get ours built before things started going up. I'm going to guess that our cost would be double today. So $240/sq-ft for the house and $80/sq-ft for the shop.

I did all of the outside dirt work, buried all the services and wired both buildings to try to cut some cost.

Since our shop was going to be all weather on a heated concrete floor the builder said he could do it stick built a little cheaper than pole barn design.

My shop design has 18ft walls partly due to needing the headroom in the second story living space, but also due to my desire to have a bridge crane. Most of the builders are recommending 4 ply 2X6 columns, one of them recommending 3 ply 2X8 columns. None of them said stick frame, maybe due to wall height...

 

[ETD66SS]

Well, kinda. If you finish the basement off, or a portion of it, it might. You can't put bedrooms down there either, unless there's egress windows for fire escape. Once you do that, then it's taxable, at least here it is. Your location may not.

Actually, in my state the basement egress window is now required whether or not the basement is ever finished.

 

[MossRoad]

Then we get into cost effectiveness. What's a basement or upstairs worth that you don't need regularly?

The cost is minimal for a basement VS a crawl space. I'm guessing in NY you have to put in a foundation that's below frost level. That'll be around 4' deep. I'm also guessing you have to put in a concreted floor with radon remediation. At the least, a vapor barrier would be required. The only added cost at that point is an additional 4-5' of concrete wall and maybe a 3-4" floor. It's very cost effective to basically add an additional footprint the same size as the 1st floor.

 

[ovrszd]

My shop design has 18ft walls partly due to needing the headroom in the second story living space, but also due to my desire to have a bridge crane. Most of the builders are recommending 4 ply 2X6 columns, one of them recommending 3 ply 2X8 columns. None of them said stick frame, maybe due to wall height...

Probably. My shop is 14ft eaves. My Son's shop is 16ft eaves, stick built.

I can't evaluate 18ft, no experience at that height. I'd surely listen to the builders in that regard!!!

 

[EddieWalker]

I didn't look at your plans because I would have to download them first, and I didn't want to do that.

In my opinion, two buildings are better then one. Having said that, I built my house with an oversized garage that has been my shop for the last 15 years. It's worked out OK, but it's also become a bit of a storage area that I'm always struggling to get stuff out of so I can work on a project. It's convenient to go from the house to the shop, sound and smells have never been an issue either. But the living area next to it is small and I want more space, so I'm in the process of building a three car garage next to the shop and converting the existing shop into a great room. It's been a long, expensive, drawn out project without any end in sight. I also have stairs going for two bedrooms and a full bathroom. My master bedroom is downstairs. When my wife had knee replacement surgery, it was impossible for her to go up the stairs. For that reason alone, I would not build a home that is upstairs.

Once my house project is done, and a dozen other big projects are done, I'm going to build a full sized, as big as I can, shop off to the back of my fenced in dog yard. It will have a long leanto for storing trailers and implements, and be as big as I can afford to park everything under roof and also have space for all my tools. One of the big advantages to having a separate shop is being able to add to it, store and park stuff all around it, and have multiple ways to get into it. Having it attached to your home just makes it an oversized garage.

If you are going to finish the interior walls of a building, then the most cost effective way to build that building is by stick framing it. If you go with posts, or metal, then you are paying for the walls twice when you add the framing for the sheetrock.

With every home design, if you start out with a rectangle shape of the building, you are at the most cost effective point. Mobile Homes are brilliant in their designs for the maximin cost efficiency. Every person that designs their own home for the first time gets it wrong. Usually it's really wrong!!! Since I didn't look at your design, I cant comment on what you came up with, but what I would suggest is talking to your builders when asking for a bid, and ask them for their input on how to save money in the layout and finishes. Very little things can cost a huge amount of money without any benefit to the livability of the home.

Make the shop as big as you can afford, as tall as possible so you can have as big a door as possible. 10x10 should be the minimum size for a shop door. 12 foot wider is a lot better!!!! Plan the shop so you can add on to it by making it longer in the future, and add leanto's to the sides of it later on. This gives you a building for minimum money so you can focus on the house. Build a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house that will add value to your property so you can get the most out of it when you sell it in the future. Even if you plan on dying there, and you are 100% positive that you will never sell the place, you have to also know that life surprises you and things happen. Sometimes it's an unforeseen opportunity that comes up, other times it's not what we want, but we're forced into selling and moving somewhere else. The better you make it now, the more you will appreciate it later.

 

[ovrszd]

The cost is minimal for a basement VS a crawl space. I'm guessing in NY you have to put in a foundation that's below frost level. That'll be around 4' deep. I'm also guessing you have to put in a concreted floor with radon remediation. At the least, a vapor barrier would be required. The only added cost at that point is an additional 4-5' of concrete wall and maybe a 3-4" floor. It's very cost effective to basically add an additional footprint the same size as the 1st floor.

While I agree with your math that the basement is cost effective if you need the living space. Then we are back to the stairs used on a daily basis.

Your first sentence is simply wrong.

 

[ETD66SS]

While I agree with your math that the basement is cost effective if you need the living space. Then we are back to the stairs used on a daily basis.

Your first sentence is simply wrong.

Maybe I am still too young yet, but I have used stairs daily my entire life.

I did put thought into an elevator in my Barndominium design just in case in my old age it becomes an issue, however, I currently do not see stairs as an issue.

 

[ETD66SS]

I didn't look at your plans because I would have to download them first, and I didn't want to do that.

In my opinion, two buildings are better then one. Having said that, I built my house with an oversized garage that has been my shop for the last 15 years. It's worked out OK, but it's also become a bit of a storage area that I'm always struggling to get stuff out of so I can work on a project. It's convenient to go from the house to the shop, sound and smells have never been an issue either. But the living area next to it is small and I want more space, so I'm in the process of building a three car garage next to the shop and converting the existing shop into a great room. It's been a long, expensive, drawn out project without any end in sight. I also have stairs going for two bedrooms and a full bathroom. My master bedroom is downstairs. When my wife had knee replacement surgery, it was impossible for her to go up the stairs. For that reason alone, I would not build a home that is upstairs.

Once my house project is done, and a dozen other big projects are done, I'm going to build a full sized, as big as I can, shop off to the back of my fenced in dog yard. It will have a long leanto for storing trailers and implements, and be as big as I can afford to park everything under roof and also have space for all my tools. One of the big advantages to having a separate shop is being able to add to it, store and park stuff all around it, and have multiple ways to get into it. Having it attached to your home just makes it an oversized garage.

If you are going to finish the interior walls of a building, then the most cost effective way to build that building is by stick framing it. If you go with posts, or metal, then you are paying for the walls twice when you add the framing for the sheetrock.

With every home design, if you start out with a rectangle shape of the building, you are at the most cost effective point. Mobile Homes are brilliant in their designs for the maximin cost efficiency. Every person that designs their own home for the first time gets it wrong. Usually it's really wrong!!! Since I didn't look at your design, I cant comment on what you came up with, but what I would suggest is talking to your builders when asking for a bid, and ask them for their input on how to save money in the layout and finishes. Very little things can cost a huge amount of money without any benefit to the livability of the home.

Make the shop as big as you can afford, as tall as possible so you can have as big a door as possible. 10x10 should be the minimum size for a shop door. 12 foot wider is a lot better!!!! Plan the shop so you can add on to it by making it longer in the future, and add leanto's to the sides of it later on. This gives you a building for minimum money so you can focus on the house. Build a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house that will add value to your property so you can get the most out of it when you sell it in the future. Even if you plan on dying there, and you are 100% positive that you will never sell the place, you have to also know that life surprises you and things happen. Sometimes it's an unforeseen opportunity that comes up, other times it's not what we want, but we're forced into selling and moving somewhere else. The better you make it now, the more you will appreciate it later.

For those who don't want to download pdf's (I don't blame you).

 

[ovrszd]

Maybe I am still too young yet, but I have used stairs daily my entire life.

I did put thought into an elevator in my Barndominium design just in case in my old age it becomes an issue, however, I currently do not see stairs as an issue.

Oh don't misunderstand. I'm fine with you using stairs. What I'm debating is spending money to create the need for stairs to living area that's not used. Or rarely used. An unfinished basement would be an example. If you need the space, a finished basement is cheap cost per square foot. But it's not free or minimal cost.

I admire your thoughts of dying in your build. We intend to die here as well. We aren't pessimists. But we try to be realists. The percentage of humans in their last ten years of life that handle stairs is very small. So we avoided them. We even used low thresholds in our exterior doors. No doors or thresholds entering our showers. Showers that you can enter with a wheelchair. No doors narrower than 36". Hallway 48" wide.

I am very active at 71. When I'm 81 I'll PM you and let you know how I'm doing.

 

[ETD66SS]

I am very active at 71. When I'm 81 I'll PM you and let you know how I'm doing.

My father was extremely active until he was 85. He ran all of my equipment, did a lot of bullwork with me at my lot, firewood, you name it. My lot was fully wooded when I bought it, with his help I dug two ponds, lots of logging, etc. He had 3 bad years of strokes from age 85-88 and that was it. I hope to be as active as he was at an advanced age...

 

[ovrszd]

My father was extremely active until he was 85. He ran all of my equipment, did a lot of bullwork with me at my lot, firewood, you name it. My lot was fully wooded when I bought it, with his help I dug two ponds, lots of logging, etc. He had 3 bad years of strokes from 85-88 and that was it. I hope to be as active as he was at an advanced age...

Sounds like you come from good genetics. I hope you are as fortunate as he was.

 

[Torvy]

A couple of features we added that even the builders have liked:

A separate mechanicals room with direct access to the outside. That way, repairs and maintenance crews can come and go with tromping through the house.

A motion sensor light in attic (we don't do basements around here, but I would put one there).

Single slope roof. Fewer gutters to clean.

 

[3Ts]

It looks like you've given a lot of thought to both plans. My first comment has to do with stairs also. The barndominum has been discussed with option for an elevator. The A frame however has more stairs and would be more of an issue to retrofit with an elevator or stair lift of some kind. I'd level the floors so fewer stairs would be needed. It seems to be a split level house.

If I were building your barndominum I would rearange the bathroom by swapping the bathtub and toilet/sink and I'd put in a window overlooking the shop mostly to get more light into the house.

 

[ETD66SS]

It looks like you've given a lot of thought to both plans. My first comment has to do with stairs also. The barndominum has been discussed with option for an elevator. The A frame however has more stairs and would be more of an issue to retrofit with an elevator or stair lift of some kind. I'd level the floors so fewer stairs would be needed. It seems to be a split level house.

If I were building your barndominum I would rearange the bathroom by swapping the bathtub and toilet/sink and I'd put in a window overlooking the shop mostly to get more light into the house.

From my understanding, due to fire code no windows would be allowed between the shop and living space.

I did have a design with a breezeway like others have suggested, however it just added cost, made the site work footprint larger etc...

I just sold a house with an attached garage and yes fumes can be a thing. As far as fire in terms of insurance, I'm not sure this barndo would be any different than a house with an attached garage. Insurance might cost a bit more but I don't think it is uninsurable...